Peter Pit Topsy Turvey Chairs, and Joe Porper

[Guest]

Joe Porper has made and is selling a miniature set of Topsy Turvey chairs A.K.A. Martinka Chairs.

Peter Pit is the one who came up with the topsy turvey chair routine. Peter performed it in his act and never published his routine for others to use. In fact he did not want anyone else using it. The only person Peter gave permission to do anything with the routine is Geno Munari.

Joe Porper was not giving permission to sell the chairs as Topsy Turvey Chairs. The ads give no credit to Peter Pit as even having performed this effect.

I find it strange that a dealer that has had items of his stolen would choose to market a routine without permission.



I doubt that Joe Porper didn't know that Peter Pit is the one that developed the Topsy Turvey routine. There is not even a mention of Perter Pit in the ads for the Minature Chair routine. Even if he had mentioned Peter's name it still would not have made it right for Joe to market this.

Many know that Geno Munari is the only magician that has permission to do anything with Peter's routine with the chairs. Joe Porper did not ask Geno for permission todo this.

Randy Sager




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[Richard Kaufman]

Randy, we had a thread on here several years ago about this, and the essential routine belongs to Flip Hallema, not Peter.

[Guest]

Richard,

Yes I know the thread well.

Yes I have read the exchanges between Flip, and Tommy Wonder. It does seem like a clouded situation.


But I am very much of the opinion that Flip had very little to do with the creation of this routine. He may have had the idea first but I'm not convinced.

The thing that is very clear is Geno does have more rights then anyone on this effect since he did get it from Peter Pit. Peter is the one that did all the work on the effect. No one else did.

Flip "may have" had the idea but Peter was the clear originator of the effect as he did it. Peter is the only one that came up with anything for the routine. He had more than an idea of what the effect was to be.

[Guest]

I am confused Peter Pit did not create it by he had the rights to it, is that correct.

[Pete Biro]

The Multiplying Chairs goes back farther than any of us. A set wss just sold in the Fechner collection.

The Porper routine is not what Peter Pit did. IN fact Flip is the one that created the routine for Peter. Th AD may not mention Pit but the instructions do, and the 'histoy' is included in the INSTRUCTIONS"

[Guest]

Thank you for the information Pete and yes the chairs do go back further then any of us.

My main question in all this is not really who came up with what first etc.. That looks like it will be a bone of contention forever.

What I wonder in a case like this is. Even though the routine is not like Pits why should it be ok to perform or even market a routine for the same type of effect if the one that has done all the work on it never did so himself and never gave anyone permision to use it save for one? Seems there is a double standard here. If you don't have the rights to something you can make something up that is not the same but in look wise it is the same. Effect wise it is the same. It's the same darn thing. Not matter how you want to sugar coat it.

I had a feeling that this would all be pushed under the rug and no one would see the wrong that is being done here.

That's great that Porper did give history of the chairs and credit Peter. But he still did not go to all involved and ask for permission on this etc.. He did not go to Geno I think that he should have and asked how Geno would feel about him marketing this. That did not happen. I know I'm the only voice of disagreement on here at the moment with everyone but I'm not alone either.

Randy

[Pete Biro]

It is only a PROP and one would hope those using it will come up with their own routines. Again, Porper does not give anyone's routine, but a number of approaches devised by FLIP.

OVER AND OUT.

[Guest]

Pete I wanted to say I think My last post sounded like I was attacking you and I was not I wanted to post again before you did but I was too late.

I respect your knowledge. I'm sure you have forgotten more magic then I will ever hope to know.

I know the internet can make us sound like jerks sometimes to anyone that reads things on the net. I'm sorry if I have.

Interesting disscussion on this. I don't know that it will ever be resolved to everyones likeing but who knows?

[Richard Kaufman]

I think it IS resolved. The nesting chairs are old--the rights don't belong to anyone.
The instructions sold with the Porper mini-chairs credit Flip and describe his ideas.
End of story.