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Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 7th, 2017, 6:59 am
by magicfish
performer wrote:
magicfish wrote:
performer wrote:The main difference is mental attitude. A different approach to things entirely. There is a very interesting sociology book dealing exclusively with magicians which does compare the amateur outlook to to the professional's. Here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/magician-culture ... 0772014523

And consider this.

Dai Vernon was an amateur magician. Criss Angel is a professional. Take your pick.


This is precisely why, often, the opinion of the amateur far outweighs the opinion of the professional, contrary to what some believe.
A master of the art is a master of the art regardless of how he makes his living.
I know great magicians on both sides.
I also know of terrible amateurs, and professionals who have been deluding themselves for decades.


If a professional deludes himself for too long he ends up not eating. If an amateur deludes himself he can still end up on the fat side.

"If a professional deludes himself for too long he ends up not eating. "

Correct. Some of them can't without borrowing money. And yet the delusion often continues.

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 7th, 2017, 12:38 pm
by performer
Deluded amateurs also borrow money too, you know. And they continue to delude themselves that technical skill equals being a good magician. It most certainly doesn't and in fact tends (although not always) to indicate the opposite.

I am delighted that at least I have never had to borrow money. I either earn it or steal it. Or sometimes both at the same time.

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 8th, 2017, 9:37 am
by magicfish
performer wrote:Deluded amateurs also borrow money too, you know. And they continue to delude themselves that technical skill equals being a good magician. It most certainly doesn't and in fact tends (although not always) to indicate the opposite.

I am delighted that at least I have never had to borrow money. I either earn it or steal it. Or sometimes both at the same time.


I agree wholeheartedly.

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 9th, 2017, 12:12 pm
by magicfish
In fact, now that Im an amateur again (and have been for many years now), I think about how much my magic has changed.
There is good and bad on both sides and only the individual can know which is better for him/her.

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 11th, 2017, 9:39 am
by Q. Kumber
This quote from Ludwig Van Beethoven might help clarify the difference between consummate performers, be they amateur or professional, from everyone else in the same discipline. Noah Levine's article on David Ben in the April GENII is well worth reading for the thoroughness a professional will go to in developing a performance piece.

"Don't only practice your art but force your way into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise you to the divine."

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 11th, 2017, 3:29 pm
by performer
I never knew Beethoven did the cups and balls and cut and restored rope. Still one learns something new every day.

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 12th, 2017, 3:36 pm
by Jack Shalom
He used empty liquor bottles.

Surely you've heard of Beethoven's Fifth?

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 12th, 2017, 10:56 pm
by MagicbyAlfred
@Performer: "I never knew Beethoven did the cups and balls and cut and restored rope. Still one learns something new every day."

@ Jack Shalom: "He used empty liquor bottles. Surely you've heard of Beethoven's Fifth?"

Clever lines, gentlemen!

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 16th, 2017, 6:56 am
by Zig Zagger
I think I have just found a very good quote on this matter from Henry Hay (June Barrows Mussey). In his great "Cyclopedia of Magic" (1949, p.10) he writes under the entry "Amateur Magicians":

Many amateurs excel the average professional not only in invention but in dexterity; their weak point, comparatively speaking, is likely to be Presentation. Showmanship, the art of pleasing the audience, is the one thing the professional lives by; the amateur can afford to please himself alone with difficult moves and devices that the audience never even sees. "Conjuring for conjurers" is a vice in a professional. In an amateur it is a vice only if he hopes to turn professional.

Re: What separates the pro from the amateur?

Posted: April 16th, 2017, 7:57 am
by performer
I think it is a vice whether they wish to become professionals or not. It is a very bad thing indeed and not good for magic at all. When I was an amateur I knew presentation was VITAL! And I spent as much time on patter and presentation as I did with the moves and tricks. The only difference between a professional and an amateur should be whether they earn money with it or not.