Egg Bag

[Carl Mercurio]

All right, you guys have sold me, esp. Rick Green's comment. I'm going to dust off the old egg bag, check out some of these suggested routines, and try again. Say, "cluck, cluck." Then again, don't....

[Pete Biro]

In the 1940s Steve Shepherd, and after he gave it to Glenn Haywood, used a golf ball for the egg bag. It was marketed by Tom Dethlefson's Golden Gate Magic. I have the manuscript somewhere.

Glenn may still be doing it.

His finish where he produces two shot glasses of whiskey, and the way he holds the first under the nose of the helping speftator is one of the great bits of business in magic.

He tempts the guy, then drinks it himself.

Then, as an afterthought reaches into the bag and produces a second shot for the helper.

In the instructions from Ken Brooke (which I helped to write) the finish where the woman reaches into the "empty" bag, which she is holding, and FINDS THE EGG... is pure magic.

SOCKO as they say in my country.

I would hate to work without it.

Stay tooned... :eek:

[David Alexander]

Magic is a vehicle for an interesting personality. Take the Egg Bag away from Hobson and Mullica, give them something else and they will make that trick a success. Magic, presented without an interesting personality is a series of puzzles that might divert an audience for a few moments but won't entertain.
For that there is the need for the interaction of an interesting personality with the audience. Once you have that you can do most anything. The Egg Bag "plot" structure the necessary on-going interaction with the audience in and around a series of vanishes and reproductions of a delicate object.
Decades ago I picked up the Malini bag from Charlie Miller and Ozzie Malini and added a couple of bits of handling of my own such as showing the inside and the outside of the bag to be completely sewn. I do it both close-up and on platform. The finish is either Malini's Vanish of the egg, learned from Charlie, or my own visible vanish of the egg.
None of this is important apart from the ability to interact with the audience. Frakson, my mentor in magic, once told me that the "stupidest trick" he performed was the Giant Rising Cards. He had three cards selected from a regular deck and the brought out "thees big blok o'wood" (a Martin Deck) and proceeded to wow the audience.
The first time the card rises establishs the premise, but that's it. Beyond that you'd better have audience interaction and variety because once they've seen you do it, they don't want the same thing demonstrated again (and again and again). Without making it interesting with a human connection magic is just bunch of boring puzzles.

[Q. Kumber]

One of the finest egg bag routines I've seen is Denny Haney of Denny's Magic shop.
It is on his video tape Denny and Lee at the Well's Theatre, available from his shop for $20.

His one hour show is a masterclass of timing, pointing and pauses.

[Guest]

While we are talking about the egg bag I thought I might present an idea I had and see what people think. I was thinking of beginning homing card by pulling my pocket inside out and having the spectator feel it, they would accidentally pull the lining out, I would then go into a homing card routine in which one person holds the lining. A little later on I would perform the egg bag with the lining. I was thinking of vanishing the lining and showing that it was back in my pocket . Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Noah Levine

[Pete Biro]

In a workshop I put together for the egg bag, one of my ideas was to have a spectator reach into my pocket to see if it was empty. I would ask them to pull it inside out. Of course it was the egg bag and they would pull it all the way out. Byplay complaining he/she pulled too hard, etc.

Another idea was to loosely stitch onto the bag one of the tags that says, "Do not remove this tag under penalty of law." Spectator accitentally has it come off in hand.

For a short time this was good, have a tag on bag and start to sing "Look for the Union Label." (Remember those commercials?)

At the SAM in Chicago I tossed the egg bag out into the audience to examine. Got it back and said, "Hey, someone tore a corner off... well, I'll try to do the trick anyway."

:rolleyes:

[Guest]

Those are cool ideas. I just wanted to make sure people realized that I am not claiming the pulling out the pocket idea as my own. Pete Biro has already mentioned those.

Noah LEvine

[Carl Mercurio]

Now that you guys have convinced me to work on the egg bag again after a 20-year hiatus (and because my friend Bob Torkova told me to my face that I was "ignorant," o.k., he said it with a smile), I have a practical question. What are the limitations, advantages of the Malini bag versus the others. Can you use real eggs in both types, etc....Thanks a bunch, and again, look foward to having egg on my face.

[Guest]

The egg bag routine is a classic of magic. Just like the cut and restored rope this can lead to a number of variations. Unfortunately, this trick is not analyzed well and taken as is. The basic routine involves the vanish and production of an egg. The technical aspect is how to convince the audience that the bag is truly empty. Better magicians will have their own style of performing this classic. But for some of us who simply has to use the egg bag because we have one, I would like to share with you my routine which has remained in my show up to the present. This short routine is a prelude to any trick that requires the use of a real egg. The trick does not require great presentation skills nor skillful maneuvering but only convincing moves to show that the bag is empty.
Needed: An egg bag, a real egg, and a rubber banana.
Preparation: Place the egg in the secret pocket and the rubber banana inside the bag.
Presentation:
1. Introduce the bag.
2. Remove the rubber banana from the bag and show it to the audience.
3. Place the banana inside the bag and palm it as you remove your hand from the bag.
4. Point at the bag with the hand concealing the banana to emphasize that the banana is inside the bag.
5. Pick up a magic wand, a silk handkerchief, or anything and ditch the banana.
6. Wave the wand or the silk over the bag.
7. Show the banana has vanished by any method which completely satisfies the audience that the bag is really empty.
8. Reach into the air for the vanished banana. Pretend to drop it inside the bag.
9. Slowly remove the banana from the bag and show that it has transformed in to an egg!

[Guest]

Personally, the egg bag never made much sense to me, but I know that audiences love it. I do it on the ships regularly, and sophisticated adults respond to it surprisingly well. To get the reaction that does in performance, there must be more to the egg bag than is apparent on first glance.

There is something woven into the fabric of our brains that loves "hide and seek" and is fascinated by bags, cups, and boxes.

What if there were a little light-weight bag that one could carry on a journey and store anything in it without adding to its weight, without worrying about breakage, and yet be able to retrieve those things at will? This would be a wonderful, useful magic object! I am not a big fan of story magic, but I believe the audience can sense the magical utility of such a bag intuitively. The bag does not need to be justified. It is mythic in itself.

A magic bag from which things appear--it is like the story of the drinking horn that never runs dry, or the magic grinder that makes unlimited salt. Furthermore, eggs are charged with all kinds of associations, and by their unique shape, fragility, and potentiality they always arouse interest--in and of themselves.

Certain things have an inherent fascination in their simplicity and geometry. The cups and balls, the linking rings, the egg bag--these are classics for a reason. "In and of themselves" they have something going for them. It may take a good performer to connect with that something in the minds of the spectator.

The argument above that if the egg bag was a great trick "in and of itself" there wouldn't be so many bad performances of it around, doesn't make a lot of sense. There are many bad performances of the linking rings out there, and yet most of us would agree that the trick itself has stood the test of time.

There are many bad performances of any given popular song out there, which proves nothing about the song. Classic magic is much like music. The magician tries to take the old and familiar and make it new and fresh. We are magic stylists...

[Lisa Cousins]

I've run the egg bag routine that David Ben did at SAM through my mind many, many times since. It's lingeringly magical. I think he used the word "violent" to describe the acquitments - twisting the bag, and whapping at it, every gesture pin-point precise, controlled, and conveying the unmistakeable message "no egg here." And then there was an egg there.

It was riveting at the time, and it gets even better on reflection.

[Carl Mercurio]

Whit,
I had the great pleasure (and fortunate timing) of seeing you lecture out in San Francisco while I was there on a business trip recently. I wonder if the magic community quite realizes how good you really are, and how sound your thinking is on a wide variety of effects. The Chicago Surprise manuscript alone is a gem.
Regards,
Carl

[Guest]

Chris:

Thanks for your kind comments. You made my day. And of course I wouldn't think of disagreeing with any of them. ;)

And thanks for starting such an entertaining and informative thread. I have thoroughly enjoyed everyone's comments and found it informative and stimulating. I had to do some thinking myself.

Like I said, I never really understood what it was about the egg bag that people liked, but I knew that, like all classics, it must have something going for it. Reading everyone's passionate arguments was great, and being reminded of the great performances of the bag I have seen by Johnny Thompson, Tom Mullica, Billy McComb, Charlie Miller, Tom Ogden, Jeff Hobson, and the rest brought me a smile as well.

Thanks.

[Guest]

One other note. On a ship last year I was talking with an older cruise director, and asked him who the very best magician he had ever seen on the ships.

He said, "The best I ever saw was quite a while back. He was this little heavyset guy who whistled and made coins appear out of thin air. Oh, and he did this trick where he put and egg in a little black cloth bag and it just disappeared."

"Charlie Miller?"

"Yeah, that's him. Whatever happened to him?"

[Guest]

Carl, I meant, not Chris. Sorry. My brain is thinking too much and is overheated.

[Guest]

Carl:

Sorry, I can't seem to stop adding one thing after another. But you asked about the best bags. I think that for doing the standard egg bag the Malini bag is by far the best. It is a simple silk bag that looks very thin and light. It should be dark and rich in color--midnight blue, deco green, dark maroon, or a deep red.

There are a lot of important details in the proper construction of the bag. Johnny Thompson covers most of these in his section of the egg bag video. But he held back some of the real work. He sells a near perfect bag at his lectures manufactured to his specifications in Las Vegas by Lynetta Welch--the Magic Seamstress.

These have every feature and design element that Johnny has picked up or invented over the years, and he is almost universally acknowledged as the world's top expert in the Malini egg bag.

These are the very best money can buy. They go for about $90 I think, and are worth every penny. They are flawless in both design and workmanship. They make performing the trick effortless and fun. And they are beautiful.

Lynetta is an accomplished seamstress, tailor, costumer, illusion builder, and magician. She built the first ever Twister illusion for her then husband Ed Alonzo. She has worked as an assistant for Harry Blackstone, Jr., the Pendragons, and many others and knows magic inside and out.

If you need a topit, quick-change costume, dove pocket or any special tailoring for magic, I highly recommend Lynetta. She is obsessive about detail, and does incredibly fine work. She is planning to open a website very soon.

If you can get hold of one of her bags from Johnny or from Lynetta, that will be one of the best moves you could ever make. I would pay twice the price for one of them.

[Guest]

I haven't seen anything on this one in a while.

I purchased the Senor Mardo bag from Martin Lewis quite some time ago, and it has been a featured piece in my act since, but I have to say that I can't for the life of me see the appeal of the bag. I think the longer I'm in magic, the more I see this fact: it's not about the trick, but about me as a performer (that applies to all of us). If we are engaging, entertaining, fun to be around, we could spin a basketball on our finger and people would want to watch.
I forget who I heard say it, but it bears repeating. Sheets, Hobson, Mullica, McComb, et al, are individuals that people would want to be around whether they did magic or not. It just so happens that they do.
Oh, by the way, Whit...Heath McMillan said hello (I hope I didn't mutilate his last name).
Rick

[Carl Mercurio]

Whit,
Thanks for the advice on the bags. I'm actually gravitating toward a Mardo-style bag because it seems to work well in the routine I've developed. But I also plan to play around with the Malini-style bag as well to get the feel of it.
Thanks again,
Carl

[Guest]

If you do decide to buy the Mardo, get it from Martin himself. His mom makes them, and since I started doing the routine, I've bought two of them from him.

[Guest]

I, like all professional and veteran magicians, when choosing a effect for layman revert to classic effects. They have stood the past of times, have being proof with millions shows and thousand magicians. There is an article by Tamariz explaining why a trick can be considered a classic. The first caracteristic it's:
The effect simple direct, can be described with very few words.
Ussually the effect can be repeated.
Related to he previous one it's having several methods (In Malini routine with egg bag also he palmed and vested egg).
And the part Whit Haydn almost talked about: They have an emotional hook up with people: According to Tamariz, every effect simbolizies some myth. in case of eggbag it's the creation of live. think of bagg like an uteru and the egg and delicate ovule (for that classic black bag it's better suited like mardo-Tarbell squared coloured one, plus visual contrast black-white), and also (it's much better an egg than a ball or a whisky shot, an egg implies live: chickens births from them, no).
Yeaahhh it's looks like talking of a guru new's religion, but I agree entirely with him.
Maybe of interest knowing it, above all for Haydn, I've read your books and you,like european magicians like thinking deeply about magic.
David (who had the luck of learning from the greatest Frakson, a mentor very important to Tamariz conception of magic. I would be interested in talking about Malini routine with eggbag, it's like Mark Mitton's handling?.

Meanwhile I'll continue performing Faucett Ross routine, with Malini bag. It's a short routine who makes the final clear with proper presentation. For final I dislike making apparition of other items, it distracts from basic effect (egg appear and dissapears).
I think it's worth mentioning that the person who made it world famosu was Goldin. He did a great illusion show, and when curtains were closed (arranging nest effect backstage) he did that kind of litle size effects, the same can be applied to Fu Manch marvellous handling of this classic. And don't forget Arnold de Biere handling: he first gave the eggbag to examinate an he changed it for Malini one when taking out coat (yes, in the sleeve he changed it). Imagine the overall effect.
Tamariz himself has his version when he after finishing the effect gives away the bag,(magical souvenir).

[Lisa Cousins]

Okay, the jig is hereby up.

Carl Mercurio began this discussion with the following question:

Originally posted by Carl Mercurio:
Is it just me, or is the egg bag a crushing bore no matter who performs it?

Well. On my recent visit to New York, I wandered over to the FAO Schwartz and caught Carl's act (a promotion for Fantasma Toys). He opened with a rope effect. Then ... WHAT TO MY WONDERING EYES SHOULD APPEAR ... but an egg bag.

Yes, an egg bag.

You heard me. An egg bag.

[Carl Mercurio]

Damn, busted! Well, live and learn. The comments on the Forum to my original post set me straight, so I figured after 25 years of doing magic I'd try it. Now, I perform egg bag in my family act; I CLOSE with it in my cabaret act; and I have a nice routine for walkaround as well. Maybe I'm getting old and seeing possibilities I never saw before. Seeing David Ben perform egg bag at SAM 100 was a big inspiration for me. Plus, I've read or watched on video just about every published version of the egg bag. I will say that I still don't understand egg bag; and I'm not sure that I personally am entertained by it. But I'll be damned if people don't love it. Now Lisa, you realize of course that just because I now perform egg bag that doesn't mean it isn't still a crushing bore. I may only have added to its legacy of crushing boredom....Oh, well, live and learn....

[Guest]

Since gay and lesbian people have been the brut of many cruel parodies designed not to illiciate humour but to ridicule their way of life, many people see any overly camp performance by a straight performer as an example of this kind of treatment.

Hobson probably isn't trying to ridicule gay people in his egg bag act but it is very understandable that people would feel odd about an act like this.

Funniest egg bag I ever saw involved a kid from the audience sticking his backside in the bag and trying to lay and egg.

VERY funny!

[Ian Kendall]

I remember watching Hobson's Egg Bag routine on the Magic Comedy Hour (?) with a magician friend who was gay. About halfway through the routine he said 'Okay, now I'm offended'.

Take care, Ian

[Guest]

The first time I saw an egg bag was at The State Fair of Virginia . I think the acrnival playing there was World of Mirth and they had an illusion show on the midway. It was being done by Noel Lester who ballyed the show with two tricks. He floated a woman on a stage outside his tent on a raised stage about seven feet up and then did the egg bag. He had a large bag about 12" by 18". He produced a lot of eggs , as best I remember six to twelve and then a full size live chicken. A couple of years later when I started houndng the Public Library I learned how the egg bag worked after I had gone into the carnival buisness I met Noel Lester in 1962 and we talked about this. I told him I didn't see him load the chicken. He laughed and told me he didn't load a chicken he switched the whole bag.

[Guest]

The first time I saw an egg bag was at The State Fair of Virginia . I think the acrnival playing there was World of Mirth and they had an illusion show on the midway. It was being done by Noel Lester who ballyed the show with two tricks. He floated a woman on a stage outside his tent on a raised stage about seven feet up and then did the egg bag. He had a large bag about 12" by 18". He produced a lot of eggs , as best I remember six to twelve and then a full size live chicken. A couple of years later when I started houndng the Public Library I learned how the egg bag worked after I had gone into the carnival buisness I met Noel Lester in 1962 and we talked about this. I told him I didn't see him load the chicken. He laughed and told me he didn't load a chicken he switched the whole bag.

[Guest]

P.S.- I pushed the wrong button.So the egg bag must have impressed me because when I first saw it at the state fair it was 50 years ago

[Glenn Farrington]

There are guys that do great egg bag routines for magicians. But my vote for the best commerical routine as stated earlier is Denny Haneys. You can catch it on the tape of his act he sells on his site. Hell I think the Hindu Basket is a crashing bore and he make that a great trick too. I can never understand why laymen just cant figure that one out by just watching it... it boggles my mind.

[Carl Mercurio]

Denny's whole act is great.

[Pete Biro]

I believe Denny does the Charlie Miller-based routine sold by Ken Brooke. It is great, and the way I learned it was from Ken, as I did the pencil drawings for the instructions (Sid Lorraine later inked them in).

Here's a touch for fun. Have bag in your trouser pocket. Ask someone to reach in and see if there is anything in your pocket. They bring out the bag, and you say, "Hey, you ripped out my pocket... hmm... let' see, maybe I can do a trick with it."
:D

[Guest]

Johnny Thompson killed with the Egg Bag at the Legends of Magic in 2001. It's been on my mind ever since. Mike Gallo asks if anyone has seen Denny Haney's egg bag. I was in his shop last year and Denny played a video tape of his performance at the Magic castle. He opened with the Anderson Paper Tear and went into a wonderful Egg Bag routine. I asked Denny how long has he been performing the Egg Bag. His reply, "Twenty five years." I responded, "It shows." Then bought my first Egg Bag. I probably don't have twenty five to polish it, but I'm having a great time with it. It's less about the egg and the bag, and more about the interaction with the volunteers. Solid entertainment if handled correctly.

[Levent]

I?ve always wanted to put the Egg Bag in my show. And in my collection I probably have every kind of bag and routine in print. But, probably because of the rapid delivery and pacing of my show. I?ve never been able to develop a routine that fit with the rest of my act. I think that best part of the Egg Bag is the simplicity of the plot: An Egg that vanishes and reappears in an increasingly mystifying way. Perhaps, simplicity of effect is the common characteristic of all the great classic tricks.
My favorite Egg Bag performances are that of Tomsoni and his Mentor, Mentor, Mentor. Having said that, I will never forget Denny Haney at the S.A.M. annual ?Salute To Magic? Show in New York (1980s). This was just a few months after David Copperfield did the Vanishing Statue of Liberty, where David used a ?Radar? to prove that the Statue was really gone. So, at the start of the Malini Egg Bag, Denny wheels out this big Radar Screen on stage. And on the Radar is a Blip of the Egg. So when the Egg vanishes in the Bag, it also vanishes on the Radar Screen. And in one fell swoop Denny proves that he is not only funny. But, he is also seriously disturbed. Rarely, has a magic satire been so funny and cutting at the same time. I?ve been a Denny fan ever since.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Keven Williams:
I greatly enjoy Billy McCombs "egg" bag routine. He does use a filled shot glass instead of an egg.
Steven's put out an egg bag video a while back with Mullica, Thompson, Miller, McComb and Lewis. All similar BUT all different.....yeah what I said.

And it's a (*&#^$ shame that Stevens didn't put Jay Marshall's routine on there. I'd stack his handling of the egg bag up there with all of those guys - and I'd bet dollars to donughts that every one of them would agree!

Jay's routine is clever, funny and, above all - magical. With flawless handling that fooled me - close-up. And I've been doing the egg bag off and on for nigh on 30 years!

Joe missed a bet when he didn't put Jay's routine on that tape, IMPO.

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com

[Guest]

I have to say that Ron Bauer's "Siamese Goose Egg Bag" is the best presentation I have ever seen. It has just been released and can be found here: http://thinklikeaconjurer.com/all24rbps ... ecover.htm As with all other Bauer material, he gives one a reason for having the props, gives a good and funny narrative and the effects fit within that narrative. He also introduces the bag first, not both bag and egg at the same time, which really makes no sense usually. Every egg bag routine I've seen is the standard "show and tell" magic, but Bauer's is really worth looking into.

[Guest]

Working strictly from memory; in the marvelous (because it is my favourite book) The Testament of Ralph w. Hull. The primary routiine was the Cone and Ball but opened with the egg bag and presented as a golf routine uisng, of course, a golf ball. I think it was by Dr. H. Parke Shachleton and was the second of two routines offered.
Marty J. Kaplan, Pa.

[Guest]

...on the other hand, producing a drink from the bag just never seemed to make any sense to me. a magical non-sequitor [even in the gret hands of Billy McComb].
Marty Kaplan

[Pete Biro]

If you ever saw Glenn Heywood procuce two drinks out of the bag and the comedy he gets "offering" one to a spectator you would want to steal the whole routine!

Glenn's basic routine came from Steve Shepherd (the first magician I saw as a kid) and is fantastic.

Byron Walker has the mss. and maybe one day will publish it.

The late Emile Clifton via Golden Gate Magic in San Francisco (a long time ago) sold a routine using a golf ball.

[Ray Eden]

Some time ago, I printed out this discussion and determined to sit down and create an egg bag routine. I've had two different versions of the egg bag on my magic shelf for several years now. I've really never seen it performed, so I was starting from '0', which can be a pretty good place to start sometimes. Anyway. . .I showed my wife the routine that I came up with and she was completely fooled. Something that doesn't happen with her so much anymore. I found that my routine began to take form after I started thinking outside of the box. I actually only use the gimmick twice in the routine. I'm sure that I didn't come up with anything different, novel or new, but I found it liberating to work with a prop that I haven't seen performed before. I'm sure that what I have now is a mere skeleton of what it will become.

Ray Eden

[Carl Mercurio]

Great to hear. Egg bag is now a major part of my show. I've got a solid 5-minute routine without a dull moment. And pretty much the only thing that happens is an egg disappears and reappears. Amazing...!!!

[Ray Eden]

Carl,

How many vanishes and productions do you do within the five minute routine? I'm toying with the idea of using the Egg Bag as a lead into another effect. Even so, it appears that my routine (bare bones as it is) is about three minutes in length. I seem to have this thing about keeping a single effect to no more than three minutes. Maybe because in numerological theory three represents magic and the art of creation. Or maybe I'm just too lazy to create more than three minutes. :-)

Ray Eden