The Genii Forum

With tomes of knowledge such as tarbell and the like, why do we all use and buy the same effects? How many of us use shattered? Leave your comments here.

Real workers don't often go and buy something that new and immediately stick it in the act. "New" stuff, IMHO, is the province of the hobbyist. Unless a worker sees a way to work in "the latest thing" into their already established set, it's going to sit awhile until the right presentation comes along for it.

brian :cool:

Originally posted by S_Ocean:
... why do we all use and buy the same effects?

Some of us don't buy that stuff at all. Or do so very rarely.

Hey its not necessarily a bad thing, but performing it all at once causes a little chaos. I am a believer in the one with the most knowledge wins.

Originally posted by S_Ocean:
With tomes of knowledge such as tarbell and the like, why do we all use and buy the same effects? How many of us use shattered? Leave your comments here.

It's the 'golden effect' syndrome. The hope that the next effect we check out will somehow transform us into a magical god. Women will queue up to be with us, small children adorn their den with our poster and the next set of postage stamps will bear our image. The universal hope that it lurks around the next corner, and the sad truth that we don't have enough confidence in ourselves, or vision, to create our own routines from the huge library which is already available.

This is why the phrase 'reputation maker' is guaranteed to draw us into the world of the latest ad. But don't scold the dealers, it is us who fool ourselves.

Ironically we each have that 'golden effect' already. It's what we already do; if only we took the time to learn and perform it correctly.

I have gone to two or three magic shows a month for a year now, at Gerry Griffin's CALIFORNIA MAGIC AND NOVELTY COMPANY and have yet to see any of the tricks you've listed in your poll performed by any of the magicians on stage.

I have seen a half a dozen variations of Professor's nightmare which is always a big hit with the audiences there and the guests I take with me are always fooled - so I guess that trick can't be classified as "over done" either.

Maybe "Cards Across" is over done - I know watching the audience reactions to the 3 or 4 times it's been performed at the Magic Dinner theater in the last year - There always seem to be about a quarter to half the audience who start to talk or look around while the cards are being counted during the initial set up of the trick, thus losing track of how the trick is progressing and not appreciating the magic that was done when the cards disappear from one location and end up in the other.

Be cause of it's recent appearance on several TV shows - The Bowling Ball from an over-sized note pad seems to be everywhere and losing it's surprise when produced. That may be over done.

I think Card-to-Forehead is being done too often.

But.......Watching live magic can never be over done.

Dave

Funny... I have NEVER seen any of the tricks on the poll, other than the Ninja Rings.

Perhaps because I am a mentalist I was biased towards shattered, s. sharpie, pyro p., and velocity. I know one magician who is struggling for gigs, yet he bought both shattered and velocity!

I guess we all search for the Holey Grail.

I like the convention story. WHY, does professors nightmare and cards across get great reactions? The tricks are inherently boreing (imho), It is the LIVE magicians presentation that makes it fun. The audience is paying to see you, the magic is secondary. Well in most cases.

A friend of mine who is a famous mentalist, barely does any effects any more. Why? He has built up such a rapport with his audience that he doesn't need to. He's working a corporate market, but the principle is still there. Perhaps we don't need the latest and greatest, perhaps we need personalities!

I don't use one single item on the list nor have I had the desire to

Congratulations on originality Joe!

Anyone else think that black backed cards just shout out trick cards to the laymen?

Originally posted by S_Ocean:
Congratulations on originality Joe!

Anyone else think that black backed cards just shout out trick cards to the laymen?

Yep. I totally agree. Don't know why they didn't go the whole hog and add glitter to them as well ;)

Perhaps we can add some asian characters, mystic symbols, and rhinestones next.

Some of the items posted are not effects, they are utility devices. Properly used, neither the audience nor any magician watching will know of their existence. I refer to the Super Sharpie and the Spider Pen.

Most amateurs won't do Shattered because it costs $250.00.

Mr. Palmer, I beg to differ. There are many below pro magicians on the market. Most have a dual income and as such have bought shattered already! I know of 3 magicians who have it. I think only one is actually using it, but I don't even think thats regularly.

The Super Sharpie would be great if it didn't fall off my thumb all the time, the tip kept popping off, or the ink dried up!

Originally posted by S_Ocean:
Mr. Palmer, I beg to differ. There are many below pro magicians on the market. Most have a dual income and as such have bought shattered already! I know of 3 magicians who have it. I think only one is actually using it, but I don't even think thats regularly.

The Super Sharpie would be great if it didn't fall off my thumb all the time, the tip kept popping off, or the ink dried up!

If they are earning money with their props, they are using them (somewhat) professionally. However, I stand behind what I said before. I presume that you know more than seven magicians. If so, then MOST of them, BY DEFINITION, do not own Shattered.

And no matter whether it sticks to your thumb or not, Super Sharpie is a utility device, not a trick. If you use it correctly, nobody knows it exists -- even if you drop it on the floor. I suggest that you figure out how to keep it on your thumb before you take it out in front of the public.

In the same vein, when TFA came out, I didn't even look at it. Why? I have a bill in lemon routine I have been doing as a working pro for more than 30 years. To the lay audience, it appears to do the same thing. So I wait for the kiddies to get tired of their new toy. I keep doing my routine.

Wise words Mr. Palmer. I guess it is our business to be surrounded with hype. I see a pattern of buying the secrets and piracy. It seems like every hobbyist must know all the secrets! I guess thats why we all want the new toy, it could be the new thing thta sets us apart even though everyone has it.

Why do so many hobbyists and lower-tier magicians do the same effects? Some will hide behind the "limited number of magic plots" excuse. But really, it's laziness: it's simply far easier to buy the latest tricks (or appropriate them from other people's acts) than to really figure out who you are, what you want to say to your audience, then use your imagination to build your own act accordingly.

Best,
Neil Tobin

P.S. My Black Tigers came with glitter. Didn't yours?

How is this laziness different than other performance arts? How is different from society in general? I think this is a refelection of what goes on in society as a whole.

I'll see that and raise you one Brian.

So much of what we see sounds like "i have a X and when i Y, Z happens", which seems to satisfy the performer, though means little to the audience.

Let's take all such presentations, regardless or props and lump them into one "procedural" box. I'd call that the most often and overdone routine in magic.

Nice that you have things that amuse you, or serve some purpose for you. Now about the audience...

If you want to have some fun sometime, read the convention reports from 25 years ago. There was "the year of the Zombie," "the year of the Zig-Zag," "the year of the Square Circle," "The year of the Fountain of Silks." The list goes on.

Only a handful of performers ever take a few tricks and polish them until they shine.

It isn't easy to do. And traditional discipline or lack thereof sometimes precludes that.

In the case of other art forms, such as music, there is something different behind the sameness of the musicians you may hear performing live. A lot of musicians are not songwriters. They never will be. Instead, they work in an environment where they play requests for people. So they end up learning songs they don't even like and playing them as if they were wonderful.

Come to think of it, that's about the audience, too, isn't it?

"In the case of other art forms, such as music, there is something different behind the sameness of the musicians you may hear performing live. A lot of musicians are not songwriters. They never will be. Instead, they work in an environment where they play requests for people. So they end up learning songs they don't even like and playing them as if they were wonderful."

Some of the wisest words I have EVER read!

I recall one time many,many years ago watching Ted Collins take the stuffing out of a magician who was always searching for the very latest and greatest effect, and if he had seen it before, would pooh-pooh it out of existance. So Ted reaches behind the counter, with a twinkle in his eye, and says "I have just what you're looking for. The very latest thing."

He brings out a plastic Adams ball and vase and sets it on the counter.

The magician customer ( I won't reveal his name )
gets insulted and says "That old thing? Every little kid has one!"

"No, no," assures Ted, "This is something new. It works without a gimmick. They give you the gimmick in case you can't handle the new version. Here's the gimmick. You hold it."

The Ted proceeds to apparently do the standard Ball and Vase without the gimmick. The customer is amazed and has to buy one. He takes it home and about a week later, I happened to be in the store when the customer returns, red in the face.
"OK," he fumes to Ted. "Tell me how it's done!"
He plops the ball and vase on the counter.

Ted picks it up and says, "I can't do it. You didn't bring the gimmick."

"But I thought you could do it without the gimmick!"

"What do you think I am, a magician?" says Ted.

After having his fun with the customer, Ted then showed him how a REAL magician can take any so-called "over-done" trick and make it seem brand new again by imagining it differently.

I've never heard of any of those effects except the ninja rings and black tigers.

I can't imagine anyone actually "using" black tigers on stage. This is a stage and platform forum, is it not? Actually, I can't picture any professional using those cards at all.

I think perhaps that "The Lemon Game" should have been added to the list. I heard that effect is done a lot at the magic castle, these days.