What is this called?

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cottonupnow
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Joined: February 16th, 2016, 2:42 pm
Favorite Magician: Henry Evans

What is this called?

Postby cottonupnow » February 17th, 2016, 2:09 pm

I have a black case, about 14" x 7" and it has a zipper all the way around. Inside it is velvet-lined with 4 velcro pockets on one side, and 3 velcro straps on the other side. The pockets on the left side contain an armband with invisible line, an electronic remote, a brass weight of some sort, and a round brass disc attached to what looks like an allen wrench. On the right side under the 3 straps are 9 magnetic devices in increasing sizes with plastic bases (the bases are magnetized) and each has a different end to attach something to. There are no labels or instructions. What is this please and what is it used for?

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AJM
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Location: Scotland

Re: What is this called?

Postby AJM » February 17th, 2016, 2:20 pm

An IED.
Corner-boy Begrudger

Kamal
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Joined: August 4th, 2008, 7:51 pm

Re: What is this called?

Postby Kamal » February 17th, 2016, 3:06 pm

This is 100% the Fitch Kohler Holdout system.

You could not have described the contents more accurately (except the electronic remote).

Brad Henderson
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Re: What is this called?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 17th, 2016, 3:08 pm

I'll give you $100 for it sight unseen.

themindshow at gmail dot com.

Ian Kendall
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Re: What is this called?

Postby Ian Kendall » February 17th, 2016, 3:42 pm

$110 from me :)

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AJM
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Location: Scotland

Re: What is this called?

Postby AJM » February 17th, 2016, 4:31 pm

$120
Corner-boy Begrudger

observer
Posts: 255
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Favorite Magician: Harry Kellar - Charlie Miller - Paul Rosini - Jay Marshall
Location: Chicago

Re: What is this called?

Postby observer » February 17th, 2016, 5:31 pm

Didn't the Fitch Kohler come with a copyright notice and with restrictions on resale?

Bill Mullins
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Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: What is this called?

Postby Bill Mullins » February 17th, 2016, 6:23 pm

Original buyers had to agree via a license that they would protect the secrets associated with the holdout, and not disclose them to anyone else. In an article about Kohler in Magic, Feb 2003, Kohler's attorney Jeffrey Cowan answered the following questions:

Six Questions Concerning Acquisition of the FKP Holdout System

Q Is the Trade Secret Agreement for the Fitch Kohler Professional Holdout really a lease?

A The agreement is a license. Just like people buy a license to use popular computer software programs, such as Windows or Quicken, instead of buying them.

Q Once I get my license to use the Holdout, as long as I do not expose the trade secrets, can I perform it whenever and wherever I want to?

A Yes, as long as you've practiced enough so that there is no reasonable likelihood of exposure.

Q What is the term of the license?

A It's essentially indefinite (like software you might "buy" in a store), and subject to conditions that your heirs must satisfy when you die, if they want to keep the license from expiring. Once the license expires, the equipment and DVDs must be returned.

Q What happens when I want to get out of the agreement? Can the hardware and the DVDs be returned or sold to another party?

A The license is a binding contract and contains no right of assignment. On a case by case basis, we would consider requests to assign the license to someone else, but — as the agreement says — there's no guarantee we will do this. The Holdout is a professional piece of equipment, not intended for casual users.

Q Can I customize and modify the hardware?

A Not without written permission.

Q If I die and my children later find the FKP Holdout and decide they want to use it, what happens?

A They have the option of transferring the license or accepting the license. If they don't comply or return the equipment and DVDs to us, they'll have a lawsuit on their hands


I don't know how Cottonupnow came into possession of the equipment, but since he didn't know what it was, I'd bet that he wasn't the original purchaser, nor was the equipment transferred in accordance with the procedures outlined above.

Will Kohler try and get it back? If Cottonupnow didn't want to give it back, what are Kohler's options -- would a lawsuit be successful? If Kohler & Co. claimed it the equipment was only leased to the purchaser (as I believe they did), but acted in all other respects as if it was a sale, was it really a lease, or was it a sale?

Is there something like a statute of limitations in play -- if Cottonupnow has had possession for a long time, and Kohler did nothing to retrieve it, has Kohler abandoned the items?

If Cottonupnow wasn't the original lessee, he has no agreements with Kohler. What are his obligations to Kohler?

Will it cost Kohler more to retrieve the items, or Cottonupnow more to keep them, than they are worth? This could devolve to a game of chicken, where Kohler tries to send a nastygram to Cottonupnow from his lawyer, in hopes that Cottonupnow folds, and Cottonupnow says "see you in court", thinking nothing will ever happen.

Many people opined that the restrictive license was novel when it came out. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

cottonupnow
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Joined: February 16th, 2016, 2:42 pm
Favorite Magician: Henry Evans

Re: What is this called?

Postby cottonupnow » February 17th, 2016, 7:28 pm

I did not mention selling, I simply asked what it was. Someone I know bid and won a storage unit auction in Summerlin. This item, along with many other magic items, was in the unit. Due to the fact that a lot of the items are vintage, we are assuming this was the storage unit of an elderly magic enthusiast (I hesitate to say professional or amateur) who passed away without his family knowing about his magic stash. I am helping my friend identify and catalog everything. He will be selling a lot, but not this item, due to the ownership issues mentioned here. We will contact the manufacturer for directions on how to dispose of this item legally. BUT.....if and when he sells, it will be for much more than $120, since it originally sold for $1795, with limited production, and great demand.

Brad Henderson
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Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: What is this called?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 17th, 2016, 7:42 pm

It's only worth $1800 to someone who knows what it is.

clearly you have everything under control and won't be needing any more assistance.

You're welcome.

Bill Mullins
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Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: What is this called?

Postby Bill Mullins » February 17th, 2016, 8:20 pm

It's only worth $1800 if it includes the training DVDs, and permission to use and perform from Kohler.

For anyone who cares, here is the text of the original lease agreement.


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