question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

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marselmarsel
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question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby marselmarsel » July 10th, 2017, 6:06 pm

who is the inventer of: Flying Box Illusion?
regarts

Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 11th, 2017, 7:43 am

The creator is Andre Kole. His illusion was named No Feet.
I don't remember the year but I think it's in the seventies.

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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 11th, 2017, 1:24 pm

Rectification : It's in the eighties.

First Ad in March 1985.

But it seems that Joe Karson is the precursor with his effect No Feet - Some Feats in 1949

marselmarsel
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby marselmarsel » July 11th, 2017, 6:38 pm

hi i´m talking about this may be the idea is diferent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AFoxeJkvIQ

Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 12th, 2017, 1:23 am

I see but it's simply an extension (or a variante) of the principle applied by Andre Kole who was inspired by Joe Karson's idea

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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Tom Moore » July 12th, 2017, 6:45 am

The Cardboard Box variation / application of the principle was created by Ali Bongo with the most high-profile use of the effect being by Paul Daniels in the late 80's. All versions of the "floating cardboard box" illusion I've seen used have clearly been a direct lift from the Bongo / Daniels variation with the same moves and phases.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 12th, 2017, 12:30 pm

Hi Tom,

Have you a reference for Ali Bongo's variant? Book, magazine, Marketed trick?

Thanks in advance.

Philippe

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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Tom Moore » July 12th, 2017, 6:27 pm

It was used in the TV series "The Paul Daniels Magic Show" 30 years ago but i don't have the exact episode to hand but there's a clip on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwqCL4xgueM this is a christmas special which was either 1988 / 1989 recording. It was not released as a marketed effect though Ali talked about it in his lectures and Paul discussed it occasionally (it wasn't special at the time - they invented 10+ illusions every year that were performed once then never used again) Raphael has a better archive of Paul & Ali's old creations than me; he can probably provide an exact date of broadcast of every version of it.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 13th, 2017, 1:24 am

Thanks again.

A propos, who is Raphael?

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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Tom Moore » July 13th, 2017, 12:49 pm

Rafael Van Herk from Belgium - aka "Rafael" www.rafael.be

Aside from being a very creative performer he has a library and archive of contemporary European magic performance/history. Just as Max Maven or Jonny Thompson is the go-to guy in the USA, Rafael in the expert in Europe.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 13th, 2017, 1:23 pm

Fine.

Thank you very much.

marselmarsel
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby marselmarsel » July 16th, 2017, 7:10 pm

Hi, you know the Joe Karson´s ideas name?
i have the Joe Karson material and i dont know is is:
KARSoN'S 20Th cenNTURY SUspension may be?
regarts

Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 17th, 2017, 4:01 am

See in The Conjurors' Magazine, Vol. 5, no 7, september 1950, page 22, No Feet - Some Feat.

It's a very ingenious idea. You need only a large piece of silk and a table behind you.

marselmarsel
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby marselmarsel » July 19th, 2017, 9:48 pm

hi, you mean genii?
regarts

Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 20th, 2017, 1:51 am

No, The ConjurorS' Magazine edited by Walter Gibson in the forties.

JFox
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby JFox » July 20th, 2017, 7:47 pm

To cut to the chase...The "Flying Box" is simply a clever & brilliant application of the famous Abbott/Grant Suspension trick, circa 1941.

marselmarsel
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby marselmarsel » July 20th, 2017, 8:37 pm

Walter Gigson dot edit any reviw, you say 1950 no in forties conguroos review dont exist in 50´s
Grant illusion name?
Joe Karson illusion name? regarts

Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 21st, 2017, 3:21 am

marselmarsel wrote:Walter Gigson dot edit any reviw, you say 1950 no in forties conguroos review dont exist in 50´s
Grant illusion name?
Joe Karson illusion name? regarts



See here : http://geniimagazine.com/wiki/index.php ... 7_Magazine

I repeat the name of the illusion : NO FEET - SOME FEAT. Go here : https://askalexander.org/search/%22No+F ... e+Feat%22/

Regards.

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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 21st, 2017, 3:27 am

JFox wrote:To cut to the chase...The "Flying Box" is simply a clever & brilliant application of the famous Abbott/Grant Suspension trick, circa 1941.


HI JFox,

Thanks for this reference.

I look for the Tops, Vol. 6, 1941 and I find in December, page 6 :

Abbott's SUPER X LEVITATION (Grant is not quote)

Are you speaking of this illusion ?

If so, do you know if it was explained later in a book or a magazine ? If not, do you know the name of the illusion ?

Thanks in advance.

Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 21st, 2017, 3:36 am

You can find NO FEET - SOME FEAT in The Conjurors' Book of Stage Illusions edited by Micky Hades in 1974.

It's here : http://www.magicinc.net/theconjurorsboo ... sions.aspx

Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 21st, 2017, 3:39 am

You can also read this :

viewtopic.php?t=6198

Tom Moore
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Tom Moore » July 21st, 2017, 5:52 am

I really don't see any direct correlation between the various "no-feet" illusions and the Flying Box. Yes there is a "secret support" but it's in a completely different place, size, shape, orientation and style - to claim that the flying box is based on the Andre Kole or Joe Karson effects means you also have to claim that the Zombie Ball is based on it too.

There are designs by Harbin, Jarret, deKolter which all have much closer concepts to the flying both method (ie mechanisms and gimmicks to take the weight of a person inside an object so that the magician can handle the object as though it were empty) and so offer a clearer path of evolution to the Flying Box than the no-feet plot.

Also as a technical note, the no-feet as described in "The Counjurers Magazine" is clearly a vague idea not something that had actually been built as there are a number of basic technical errors and mistakes in its design that would be apparent to anyone that actually owned one. There's no doubt it's the genesis of the "no feet" routine in magic but is the equivalent of claiming that daVinci invented the helicopter.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Philippe Billot
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 21st, 2017, 7:59 am

I agree. I speak simply about inspiration and evolution in an historical point of view. And I thank you again for Ali Bongo reference. One of my friends who is writting a book about Suspensions and Levitations didn't know that.

JFox
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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby JFox » July 21st, 2017, 12:20 pm

Hello Philippe:
Yes, I was referring to the "Super-X" Suspension gimmick (The "Flying Box" certainly has its roots in that same-type gimmick).

(btw--You didn't see the "Grant" name in the ad because Gen Grant was Percy's employee at the time, and although Grant was the true inventor of "Super-X", Percy never acknowledged or credited him with it).

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Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Postby Philippe Billot » July 21st, 2017, 1:58 pm

Thank you Michael (JFox)

I give this "à qui de droit"


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