The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
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Pete Biro
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Pete Biro » August 20th, 2003, 4:00 pm

Leave it to Marlo to hold his feet in a different position under the table when doing a move and rename it something his.... argh....
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Jonathan Townsend
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 20th, 2003, 4:53 pm

Is it still a faro shuffle when you are not playing a game of faro?

Sure the foot position counts to someone like Ed Marlo. He probably didn't tip the sock colors used though.
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Dustin Stinett
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Dustin Stinett » August 20th, 2003, 5:22 pm

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
1) A Tabled Faro Shuffle MUST have the corners of the halves of the deck touching in order to generate the pressure for the cards to interweave. This pressure is what defines the technique.
2) A Perfect Tabled Riffle Shuffle must NOT have the halves touching prior to when the falling cards mesh.
Clear? Comments?
All I would add to that is a clarification (as I see it) of the function (not just the action) of the thumbs. If the thumbs are merely creating the illusion of a riffle (as it appears to me in the clip) as opposed to actually applying the pressure that creates the riffle, then I believe it's a faro. While in his book (Sleight Unseen by Stephen Minch), Martin A. Nash says that the cards riffle off his thumb, he has said to me personally that the cards riffle off the thumb as a result of the faro pressure applied to the cards. He is adamant that he is not performing a perfect riffle. I've never viewed his video, so I am curious about how he goes about teaching it in that.

The primary differences I see in Steven's version vs. Martin's are the thumb position on the cards (Steven's thumbs are at the corners, Martin's are at the mid-point) and the height off the table reached by the cards during the action. Having seen Martin riffle shuffle and table faro, I can say that there is very little difference in the card position between the two. To the layman--or casual eye--they appear the same. Only "fast company" would detect a difference. Frankly, I hope Steven's actual riffle appears as "tight" as does his tabled faro. Of course, now I am venturing into the realm of "naturalness."

Dustin

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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Guest » August 20th, 2003, 5:28 pm

Re: Richards' definitions of Riffle VS Faro:

As applied to the Miller technique that is under discussion per Steve Youell's video clip, there IS a required corner contact and pressure consistent with Richards' definition of a Faro Shuffle.

Here is where semantics make thier grand entrance. The difference, to me, is that the adjusted Miller technique combines that pressure, which usually sets up the "weave" as Richard notes, with a genuine riffle. The riffle is NOT done after the weave, as a mask, or even simultaneously, as is so often the case when cardicians are trying to give the impression of a genuine and uncontrolled riffle shuffle. It IS done IN LIEU OF the weave, and is facilitated by the steady corner pressure. It is this combination of methodology that allows the regular riffle to yield faro-like results.

So, I believe that Richards' definitions are apt when applied to traditional methodology, and in this instance they help sort out the semantics we are struggling with in determining exactly what Miller, etal. were/are doing. They certainly gave me a base from which to work in attempting to clarify what I know of the technique.

Again, the best way to understand this is to actually learn the technique, either via Steve's CD, or through personal instruction, though at this point enough information exists in these posts for most intermediate level cardicians to "get it". AAh, semantics!

Best, PSC

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Pete Biro
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Pete Biro » August 20th, 2003, 8:10 pm

AS far as I have found, the Faro Shuffle was NOT used in the game of Faro.
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 20th, 2003, 9:06 pm

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
AS far as I have found, the Faro Shuffle was NOT used in the game of Faro.
Thanks Pete!

Why is it called a faro shuffle then?


PS They say it's a con ed station next door under the lines but some people think there's a UFO dismanteld in that big building :cool:
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » August 20th, 2003, 10:22 pm

DALLIANCES WITH PERFECT AND IMPERFECT WEAVES

When I initially read Charlie Millers technique in Expert Card Technique (p. 65-66), a book published the year I was born, I thoughtThis is [censored], and if it isnt [censored], this technique is slightly daft, wildly unpredictable, and has a limited number of applications. In short, I had no desire to aspire to the heights of virtuosity indicated by Hugard and Braue. The charts in the chapter about The Perfect Faro Shuffle seemed aimed at card cheats, not magicians. Only the so-called 18-35 Principle seemed promising. Later, when I read Micky MacDougalls Card Mastery with its description of what Marlo called the plop-plop-plop shuffle, I was further encouraged to ignore the Faro Shuffle, especially the tabled, riffle variety.

Nevertheless, I occasionally heard stories about guys who could actually perform tabled riffle-faro shuffles with speed and consistency. The name I heard most often was Jim Cooper, who hung around the Magic Castle in the 60s and 70s. Otherwise, I never saw anyone do perfect shuffles in a way that matched what I imagined.

The first person I actually saw execute a perfect tabled riffle-faro shuffle was Ed Marlo, and he did not butt them. He lifted and released cards from two sections. In fact, I had Marlo demonstrate eight perfect faro-riffle shuffles so that Bob Syrup and Jack Pyle could videotape them for posterity, meeting a challenge voiced by Charlie Miller in Genii magazine. I privately showed this video at the Fairmount Hotel in New Orleans for about twenty magicians, including Daryl, Danny Korem, Bob Walker, and Bud Dietrich in 1982. There were nice rear-angle shots of the perfect weave in this video. The deck began and ended in New Deck order and afterwards, Marlo muttered: Eat your heart out, Charlie Miller!

The next guy I saw consistently do perfect faro-riffle shuffles was Martin Nash, who has a nice, soft touch. However, he and Marlo both ceremonially squared and tapped the ends of the sections prior to the lifting-and-interlacing action of the weave.

David Ben, who said he learned the technique from Ross Bertram, does the finest tabled faro-riffle shuffle Ive ever seenbar none! When David does it, he does not tap-and-set. He simply and deftly separates the deck into two sections and then lifts and releases cards. The cards are lifted high and the release is incredulously casual. It looks like a random, effortless riffle shuffle.

Incidentally, Marlos description of doing the Faro-Riffle Shuffle in The Faro Shuffle (1958) is pretty good. Keep in mind that he said these shuffles could be done on any type of surface, which in itself is a great step forward. I saw him frequently do them on a bar top without a close-up pad. Marlo wrote about one stage of the shuffle: The front end of the left hand portion is now tapped (my emphasis) with the face of the packet held in the right hand. This is for the purpose of squaring off the front end of the left packet as well as causing it to move further down into left fingers so that left thumb ends up at about center of the packet. Furthermore, he further says that both packets are raised off the table at the back only He also adds to start a partial weave at the bottom (my emphasis) of the packets. Marlo also explained five variations in this booklet. The second variation, by the way, describes a technique where the riffled cards will fall from a greater heightthe cards falling off onto the table from such a height makes it look almost impossible to have made a perfect Faro Riffle Shuffle and even for anyone who may have the performers view, it doesnt seem as if a perfect Faro Riffle Shuffle had been accomplished. (Sounds like the Ross Bertram-David Ben shuffle, doesnt it?)

Stephen Youells rendition looks excellent on his video. There may be others who can knock out tabled faro-riffle shuffles with speed and aplomb; however, Im still unconvinced about its wide applicability. Sure! Its nice to be able to demonstrate such virtuosity! But is it worth the time and effort in the long run?

When I posed that particular question to Marlo, he grinned and said, Thats the kind of question asked by those who dont understand what it means to be an expert and will never be one themselves.

In my case, he was right.

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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Guest » August 20th, 2003, 11:50 pm

Originally posted by Jon Racherbaumer:
Stephen Youells rendition looks excellent on his video. There may be others who can knock out tabled faro-riffle shuffles with speed and aplomb; however, Im still unconvinced about its wide applicability. Sure! Its nice to be able to demonstrate such virtuosity! But is it worth the time and effort in the long run?
Jon,

Anyone who can do a neat tabled riffle shuffle can learn this technique in a few weeks.

Applicability? Well, there are some pretty good effects out there that use the faro shuffle...how about Estimation Aces?

Steven Youell
www.cardguy.net

Ian Kendall
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Ian Kendall » August 21st, 2003, 2:09 am

Hello,

Since we're all friends again, a few comments.

Re the corners and the faro; as I mentioned in the faro thread in the general section I would disagree that the corners of the talons need to touch for the move to work. In fact, I have always found it easier to press the whole edge of the talons to get a good weave (I have a clip of this, and a text file explaining my technique, details in the other thread if anyone cares). I still believe I am doing a faro.

Re learning moves of questionable use; I have often mentioned my dislike of card tricks (I'm sure many are fed up by now) and I hardly ever perform them. However, I have four open decks dotted around the house, and very rarely leave home without one. I spend most of my idle time with either a deck or coin fidgeting over some move or another. I am constantly cutting, shuffling, passing, forcing, flicking, spinning, switching or dealing cards, practicing moves that I will never use under fire.

Why? Because I'm obsessive complusive. Actually, that's not true, but I was brought up to believe that everything you do should be done to the very best of your ability, and if something is worth doing, it is worth doing well. Also, I get a great deal of personal satisfaction out of deciding to learn something that requires a degree of skill, and then working to perfect that skill.

I know I'm not alone in this. I have met many incredibly skilled technicians who have never performed for a lay audience. Why, then, do we spend hours and years learning to do something if it is not for the joy? To (mis?)quote Vernon; You must _want_ to practice. If you don't enjoy practice, you are wasting your time.

I'd like to see Steven's CD (if he'll sell me one...) just to have something new to learn. There was a medieval doctor called Galens who said something that has shaped most of my adult life; 'There is nothing so pure and noble than the persuit of knowledge'.

Re David Ben's riffle; judging by the credits, I believe this shuffle is the one shown in the Vernon biography video (Spirit of Magic?). I remember going a wee bit slack jawed the first time I saw that (and the subsequent seven rewinds...)

Sorry for the length,

Take care, Ian

Bob Gerdes
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Bob Gerdes » August 21st, 2003, 7:16 am

Originally posted by Ian Kendall:

Re David Ben's riffle; judging by the credits, I believe this shuffle is the one shown in the Vernon biography video (Spirit of Magic?). I remember going a wee bit slack jawed the first time I saw that (and the subsequent seven rewinds...)
You are right. David mentioned that those shuffles were perfect faros a while back here on the Genii forum.

That shuffle is indeed a thing of beauty...the cards are held fairly high off the table and almost cascade down. Looks extremely fair and unlike any other faro/perfect riffle I've seen.

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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2003, 7:42 am

Originally posted by Ian Kendall:
I'd like to see Steven's CD (if he'll sell me one...) just to have something new to learn.
Ian,

Olive Branch -- Send me your address and I'll send you one at no cost!

Steven Youell
www.cardguy.net

Ian Kendall
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Ian Kendall » August 21st, 2003, 11:37 am

Steven,

Thanks for the offer. I'll drop you a mail.

Take care, Ian

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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2003, 12:07 pm

Ian,

Thanks for the tip. It is obvious that the secret to getting a copy of the "work" is to give Youell a hard time! I've been trying for a week and he won't send me one, but I know what to do now!

Best, PSC

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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2003, 1:10 pm

Originally posted by pchosse:
Thanks for the tip. It is obvious that the secret to getting a copy of the "work" is to give Youell a hard time!
Uncle Pauly,

If that was the rule you'd own my house by now!

SEY

Ian Kendall
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Ian Kendall » August 21st, 2003, 1:30 pm

I'm grateful to Steven for the chance to learn the moves, but given my druthers I'd rather have sent him fifteen bucks and saved us all the stress!

Oh, Paul, thanks for the tip with the cascade control. I've got it down to one card's width now :) If I get a chance I'll update the clip with the diet version...

Take care all,

Ian

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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Guest » August 25th, 2003, 12:47 am

I got a few requests for movies that would play in the RealOne Player and those are on the site now. However, I still haven't changed the title in the movie to "Fariffle"...!

Steven Youell
www.cardguy.net

Larry Horayne
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Larry Horayne » August 25th, 2003, 1:25 am

<<I swear, getting old is not any fun at all!??

Adrian -- getting older is fine--gettin old is NOT...

www.SandySinger.com

Larry Horayne
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Larry Horayne » August 25th, 2003, 1:26 am

<<I swear, getting old is not any fun at all!>>

Adrian -- getting older is fine--gettin old is NOT...

www.SandySinger.com

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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Guest » August 25th, 2003, 1:44 am

Originally posted by Sandy Singer:
<<I swear, getting old is not any fun at all!>>

Adrian -- getting older is fine--gettin old is NOT...

Yep, gettin' old makes you post things twice.

And it makes you post things twice.

Dave :)

Adrian Kuiper
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Re: The FARIFFLE Shuffle!

Postby Adrian Kuiper » August 25th, 2003, 1:45 pm

You're right Sandy, ....older IS better. "Old" has such a finality to it. He's old....or that piece of furniture is old. On the other hand, "older" sounds a bit nicer...has a graceful quality to it.
AND...more importantly, older means you post only once.
Thanks Sandy.....

Adrian


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