Topping the Deck

[El Mystico]

I have a memory that Vernon said that part of his inspiration for Topping the Deck was the top palm in Robert-Houdin's palm in Secrets of Conjuring and Magic.
Looking at the illustration,. I can see why.
But - I've been searching for where Vernon said it. Can anyone help?
Thanks!

[Joe Lyons]

Michael Perovich wrote about it in the February 2012 M-U-M.

[Philippe Billot]

In Select Secrets, published in 1941, Vernon's palm was first explained page 7 under the title "Topping the Deck" but Robert-Houdin was not mentionned.

[El Mystico]

Joe - thank you! That's the one!
Philippe - thank you as always. Select Secrets is a wonderful booklet!

[Philippe Billot]

I re-read Robert-Houdin and compare with Vernon's explanation.

It's pratically the same maneuver: the top card is angled and it's gripped by its diagonally opposite corners.

If Vernon didn't quote R-H in the booklet, in his Genii's Columns he quoted him several times.

Vernon described again his palm in Further Inner Secrets of Magic (1961) page 35.

[El Mystico]

Hi Philippe; I'd argue that while Vernon's handling owes a lot to Robert-Houdin's, it goes a lot further in subtlety. Vernon identified the best way to get the card into position. The angle is smaller. And he adds the overt action of raising the deck to the fingertips, which helps cover the move brilliantly.
In his excellent booklet, Topping the Deck, Swiss highlights the influence of Erdnase on the move (see Erdnase p144 where he talks about shifting the position of the deck in the hand as cover).
Swiss calls it 'the perfect move' and I'd agree with him. I remember once performing for a group. One person had seen me many times before, and none of my misdirection worked. As she said afterwards, 'I didn't look away from your hands.' But when I performed 'Topping the Deck' for one effect, she 'didn't see a thing.'
I think Vernon combined the Robert-Houdin and Erdnase handlings into a unique moment of brilliance. Imagine the joy he must have felt when he developed it!

[Philippe Billot]

I agree.

R-H explanation is one of Vernon strating point as gambler's method is the starting point of Robert-Houdin because he explained first this "enlevage" (palm) in 1851 in Les tricheries des grecs dévoilées, in english Card Sharping Exposed.

As said an humorist : everything is in everything and vice versa

[Tarotist]

I own Select Secrets by Vernon. I also own the Royal Road to Card Magic. For the life of me I can see no difference between "Topping the Deck" from Vernon and the description in the Royal Road.

[DennisLisi]

As moving as this Vernon praisefest is, I ignored the thread for three days. When I noticed Mark's post, my interest was piqued. At least his opinions are down-to-earth and sensible. I guess that's what makes them so offensive to the idealists and romanticists amongst us.

[Tarotist]

As moving as this Vernon praisefest is, I ignored the thread for three days. When I noticed Mark's post, my interest was piqued. At least his opinions are down-to-earth and sensible. I guess that's what makes them so offensive to the idealists and romanticists amongst us.

I am also willing to join in the Vernon praisefest since I have always appreciated his contributions to magic. However, I read the palming description in the Royal Road first and indeed mastered it and it wasn't until some years later I read Topping the Deck in the Select Secrets book. Both descriptions were excellent but they more or less said exactly the same thing. I suppose the only difference was that Vernon mentioned one thing that Hugard didn't but I found I was doing it anyway. That was the imagining there was an invisible diagonal wire leading from the little finger to the base of the thumb. However, Hugard (or was it Braue?) stated other details that Vernon didn't so it all evened out. However, it was more or less exactly the same move.

[Richard Kaufman]

Hugard didn't like Vernon. It's not surprising his name wasn't mentioned.

[Tarotist]

Ah---so it WAS the same move! I thought as much! Mind you I think the Royal Road gives the most thorough description.

[El Mystico]

Interesting discussion.
I love Royal Road. It was THE magic book that saw me through my teenage years. Yes, it was poor on crediting, but books for the public generally were.
But - is the palm in Select Secrets the same as in Royal Road? No. I'll give you two significant differences. Hugard has the left thumb bent right back to the lower half of the pack; totally unnatural - show me anyone who holds the cards like this. Vernon has it in a natural position. And Vernon disguises the movement of the left thumb out of the way at the end of the move by raising the deck to the fingertips. For me, this is utterly beautiful. Hugard achieves this with a squaring action with the right hand. Technically, this works, but since the deck needs to be square already for the palm, the squaring action is redundant.
It's almost as if Hugard has been trying to reconstruct the Vernon move, without access to Select Secrets. Which, given Select Secrets was a limited release, is at least plausible.
Yup, the Hugard handling works. But Vernon's has the angels singing. In my head, anyway.

[Tarotist]

I am dreadfully sorry to hear about the angels singing in your head. However, I do remember that the UK has an excellent National Health Service which, unlike America is absolutely free and no doubt will take care of this troublesome issue. However, with regard to the subject under discussion you really must accept that I am the expert on these matters.

First you state that there are two significant differences. In my far more exalted opinion the differences are not significant at all and in fact are incorrect anyway. The Hugard version is as near as dammit exactly the same as the Vernon version and you admitted this yourself by your implication that Hugard tried to pinch it from Vernon in the first place. Hugard (or was it Braue?) was a better writer than Vernon and explained the move better anyway.

Your statement concerning the thumb is of course incorrect. It is perfectly natural to place your thumb anywhere you bloody well like in a democratic country. You ask me to show anyone who holds their thumb in the manner you disapprove of. I certainly can. ME! Since I am one of the world's greatest card magicians and you are merely a student of Fred Robinson naturally my opinion takes precedence over yours. Not only is it perfectly natural to hold your thumb at the inner end of the deck it makes things easier from a technical point of view. It should be remembered that all hands are different and what suits one person doesn't necessarily suit another. In any event the geographical position of your left thumb is of utterly no consequence whatsoever since your right hand covers the deck anyway so nobody know or cares where your bloody thumb is in the first place since they can't see it anyway!

I also notice that Harry Lorayne who was no slouch at cards or writing emphasised in his description of palming in "The Magic Book" that the thumb should be in the INNER end of the deck and in fact wrote the word in italics.

With regard to your point where you wax lyrical about how "beautiful" the rather daft movement of lifting the deck to the fingers is I naturally take issue with that opinion. When palming a card you do not wish to draw attention to the hands unless you hail from the West Midlands. Your hands should be still and not moving about too much. By lifting the deck to the fingers you are involved in unnecessary movement which can draw attention to the hands. I personally keep my hands still and let my tongue do the misdirection necessary. In any event it doesn't matter a toss that Hugard said square the cards rather than lift them to the fingers since to square them you have to lift them to your fingers anyway!

[Brad Henderson]

Is it true that the deck must be squared for the topping technique? Wouldn’t Howie disagree?

[El Mystico]

Hi Brad!
Intelligent question!
If you are then going on to square the deck as your cover, then, yes, of course the deck should be unsquared.
Vernon offers at least two alternatives;
a) if you take the deck with the right hand and place it on the table.
b) If, after the palm, you move to a Hindu shuffle. (I can't immediately remember where he suggests this - the Revelations DVDs?)

[DennisLisi]

If I were to write a magic book (which I might well do), I would first simplify the moves--reduce them to basics. Then suggest more subtle variations.

So in my opinion, the spare version is the best way to begin.

Comparing the essential technique with a particular magician's twist on it is (as they say) apples to oranges--or at least Courtlands to Macintoshes. Both would be preferable. But as that would result in too heavy a tome, it makes sense to go with the former and let the reader develop his or her own handling.