The Genii Forum

Brethren.

I have decided, finally, (and shamefully), to tear myself away from the pasteboards for just a few minutes. It's time I learnt a coin effect or two.

I am currently studying Larry Jennings' version in "....on Card and Coin Handling."

Is the general feeling of the room that this is a good, solid first step?

In anticipation, thank you.

Happy 4th July to you all on your side of the Atlantic.

Peace.

Darren

Darren,

A number of years ago, I used that routine with much success. However, now I would consider one that could be done standing.

WG

My advice is to try to learn or put together a routine that uses only one coin. That way you can do it even in situations where you don't have multiple coins of the same denomination. Also, you can perform it as an encore to your multi-coin routine by saying something like, "It might be less confusing if I only use one coin"

Hi Darren,
I have A stand-up 4 coins trou A Glass table In The 20.th. year of Apocalypse! :) You could use it for any table!


Best David Neighbors
The Coinjurer

I to would suggest a one coin routine for starters. I would suggest Micheal Ammars tape on coin magic. It goes over a lot of the basic priciples of coin magic, Vanishes, Concealments, A little magic theory. This is where I started. I will still go back and watch the VHS to get a little more information and pick up and refresh the small bits of advice that are in it.

Four coins through a table is in my opinion, one of the best effects of all time. I personally have done one version or another for over 35 yrs, and it seems to always garner the best reactions from laymen. I have a stand up and sitdown version, but actually I prefer the sitdown version. I seem to do it most after dinner when I am sitting with a date or with family and friends. It ALWAYS gets a great reaction. My sitdown version is currently taught at my lectures, and is available on DVD on my website. The stand up version is on my 2004 lecture DVD, and in my COINvention lecture notes. However, there is a great selection of routines for this plot, and I am sure any one of them will be killer. The one I used originally for many years was taught to me by Tony Econ back in 1973, and was a combination of Al Baker's routine (BoBo)and Al Goshman's routine (he used to sell it, but I am sure it is found in other sources). Mike Gallo has a great kicker ending, that can be found in (I believe) Encore II, and on one of his DVD's. It can be applied to any coins through the table routine that is done sitting down.

Is the general feeling of the room that this is a good, solid first step?

Were I in your situation, an accomplished cardman just starting to explore magic with coins, I would go directly to the Vernon Book of Magic and chapter three 'A Chinese Classic' which is a version of the Han Ping Chien coin trick.

There's a fun way to produce the coins later in the book in chapter seventeen 'Free and Unlimited Coinage of Silver' that is also well worth learning.

Brethren......

I cannot thank you all enough for your hints, tips and advice.

I will follow each and every one up, I promise.

Peace,

Darren

Hi,

If you plan to work on a sit down routine that use a glass such as Vernon's "kangoroo coins", I cannot recommend enough an excellent bit of business of Pete Biro regarding the handling of the under the table phase and described in one of Johnny Thompson video tapes.

This make the routine really workable for me.

Rgds

Thomas

Thanks... yes Johnny Thompson has made great use of my move. Funny, I had forgotten about it until I was with Johnny when he lectured and he demonstrated it.

IMHO, however, I would suggest buying to books (other than Bobo): The Magic of Slydini and Slydini Encores.

Also, I will recommend the David Stone videos on coin magic. They take you from a beginner level to more complex routines in a very nice way. You can find all type of coin tricks there, explained in a very clear and entertaining way, and they are generally underlooked by the US magic community. :whack:

I agree with Pete Biro, the two Slydini books are a must. Also try to watch him perform on video if possible. Also learning the Han Pien Chen move (sorry for the spelling) is a must and worth every minute of practise.

Slydini's way of doing Han Ping Chien is quite different than most others, and IMHO is superior. I just saw J.C. Wagner work at the Magic Castle and he featured the Slydini coins through the table and did it EXACTLY as he learned it from Slydini... and he fooled the XXXX out of all viewing!

Sorry, Pete, but I disagree. The way Slydini did Han Ping Chien was unnatural with the slapping of hands down onto the table--it was made into a challenge rather than a magic trick.
The handlings of Han Ping Chien where the coins are tossed onto the table rather than slapped down are infinitely better.

I agree with Richard on this. Slydini's handling of HPC looks a bit unnatural, even in his own hands.
See THIS VIDEO on 8:05.

Denis

I'll put in a strong vote for the Al Baker routine from Bobo. I used it for years, maybe decades, and it always got a very strong response.

Not too hard for anyone who'll put in a reasonable amount of work, but complex enough to teach some very good lessons about coin/object magic if you really work on it. There is also a nice variation written up at the end of the routine that allows either an immediate repeat or a good way to do the effect when some of the audience has seen the effect as written in the primary description. In fact, I often used the variation as an "encore" of the last passage, which let me do the strongest part of the trick twice without any danger of tipping the method. Highly recommended.

Best,

Geoff

p.s. Richard and Denis: I always thought that Slydini's almost combative attitude and abrupt actions during the move was what made it deceptive. "How many!?!?" kind of gets the audience off of the handling and into the situation they now find themselves in with this weird little man. Very strong psychological misdirection, IMHO, though personally I wouldn't be comfortable doing it that way.

-G-

Gary Ouellets The Silver Passage is also an interesting approach to the plot, wherein a small, round mirror (like the kind one would find in a make-up compact) is placed on the table, then four coins pass through it (and the table) one by one. There are some pretty handling touches, and the penetration of the last coin via The Hirata Master Move is striking. Its part of the Masters of Magic series and sells for under ten bucks (see http://www.camirandmagic.com/mm01_3.html ).

Gary's routine can also be seen on volume 13 of the Revelations videos.

I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a sit down Coins Through Table routine that doesn't require lapping. Any suggestions are appreciated.

I think there's one in The Complete Works of Derek Dingle--it uses Han Ping Chien and four identical coins. Very good. (This is not "International Coins Through Table" which does use lapping.)

I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a sit down Coins Through Table routine that doesn't require lapping. Any suggestions are appreciated.

How about the Han Ping Chien coin trick?

I think Jonathan and I must've posted almost simultaneously.

Kort's Coins Through the Table using a shot glass, from Bobo, is beautiful. I worked out a more straightforward handling that can be done standing at a bar (or sitting, with no lapping) that I use and is published in The Little Egypt Book of Numbers. It uses a shell coin, and I use a gorgeous set of walking Liberties that Todd Lassen made for me.

Derek Dingle also used to perform the Kort routine--done while standing behind a bar.

If you want a routine without lapping, gimmick, extra coin, done stand-up AND if you can read french, I inform you that Eddie O'Shaug Hnessy have such a routine.
You can find it in Imagik, N 33, october 2001, page 4.

You can find his inspirational source in Coin Magic (1981- by Richard Kaufman), page 128

Thanks so much, guys! I will check them out today.
Philippe, I don't have Imagik. Besides, my French isn't good enough, but I will look up the source in Coin Magic. Merci.

1 Lapping

I've been a student of Slydini's for many years but I've never done his version of Coins through the table. I've always liked Al Baker's routine (Magical Ways and Means page 37, Bobo page 193) but I use some of Slydini's moves for the first, third and last coin (the last coin I vanish using Slydini's Revolve).

2 No Lapping

Actually most Coins Across routines can be done over a table and I'm not sure the effect would be diminished if the coins pass from one hand to the other if both hands stay above the table. Actually, I prefer to do this in a spectator's (a woman's) hands. (I contributed such a routine using only 4 coins to Apocalypse - October 1997 page 2852.)

Thanks Richard,

Yeah, I can't believe folks are not familiar with the item in the Vernon book or even the original Han Ping Chien Coin Trick.

For the student's who's learned a Roth Shuttle Pass...

If you have sticky hands, you can use one of the routines I Harry put in Apocalypse long ago which is about as direct as you can get. If you don't mind using a shell... there is another routine in Apocalypse that is almost as direct and cleaner looking in some ways.

But if you are starting out and have not explored things like the thumb slide vanish of a coin using a nearby napkin etc... I stick with my recommendation of the item in the Vernon book using six coins and a ring or odd coin.

And for the very bold... there's always the Fred Kaps item where you make the bunch go through the table in one squash. That one is explained by Richard Kaufman as performed by David Roth in the Expert Coin Magic book. Along with several other items which bear upon this discussion including the cap and pence trick.

BTW Geoff is being modest. He's passed a table through a coin on occasion.

We can all have our favorite magicians with coins but how can anyone find fault with Slydini
the master of close-up misdirection? Who is qualified to determine what is the best method for any sleight with coins?

Originally posted by BERMINI:
We can all have our favorite magicians with coins but how can anyone find fault with Slydini
the master of close-up misdirection? Who is qualified to determine what is the best method for any sleight with coins?

It's one thing to have your own opinion.

BTW Slydini died a while ago so unless you are visited by his ghost it is meaningless to discuss him in performing context.

You can see some videos of the guy in action but that is not the same as being there in person.

As to best... whatever works best for you is a good place to start.

IMHO

Noone seems to have mentioned the Gallo Pitch, which can be used standing or seated for coins through a table, among other things...

Originally posted by castawaydave:
Noone seems to have mentioned the Gallo Pitch, which can be used standing or seated for coins through a table, among other things...

With all due respect, asking a card guy to start learning coin magic with the Gallo pitch is a bit much. Pretty much like suggesting a coin guy start card magic with a memorized deck deck trick using false shuffles. :D

Touche! ;)

I agree. The Gallow Pitch is a pain to get the timing right so the retention fo vision works.

I think that someone new to coin magic shold start slowly working through JB Bobo's book and then moving on from there.

Yes, regretfully Slydini is no longer with us except on video. Nevertheless, the last time I saw him in person he was very much alive. Not that that changes anything.

I have to disagree with my friend Jon. I found the Gallo (aka Bitch) Pitch to be much easier than some of the coin moves I've attempted over the years. It's basically timing...

The mechanics aren't difficult if you use finger or thumb palm, and the timing can be learned pretty quickly if you SEE it done.

I had the good fortune to learn it from Michael Ammar during the Topit lecture tour, and had it at performance level in a few days.

The Gallo Pitch is one of the few perfect moves in magic.

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
... I found the Gallo (aka Bitch) Pitch to be much easier than some of the coin moves I've attempted over the years. It's basically timing...

Yes Bill and we have Mike Gallo around to help us learn the thing too...

But would you suggest this as a first coin item for a card guy to learn?

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
Kort's Coins Through the Table using a shot glass, from Bobo, is beautiful. I worked out a more straightforward handling that can be done standing at a bar (or sitting, with no lapping) that I use and is published in The Little Egypt Book of Numbers. It uses a shell coin, and I use a gorgeous set of walking Liberties that Todd Lassen made for me.

What a coincidence...so did I!

My stand up handling for Milt's routine was published on my DVD Stand Up Coin Magic. The routine is titled "May The Kort Please Rise".

Steve drop me an e-mail and will swap routines if your interested. nathankranzo@gmail.com

All the best,

Kranzo

FIRST item? No.
First would be basic concealments (finger, thumb and classic palm) and false transfers:
The "Flopperino" fingerpalm vanish
Al's handling of the classic palm vanish

Then HPC and Gallo pitch to teach timing

No performing for ANYONE until those are mastered...

Coins through the table is a wonderful effect. And how special to get advice on it from some of the best coin workers on the planet. I have used the Goshman routine for years, although I have also used the Baker routine. I have changed these at times, especially for the passage of the first and last coins. Three other routines bear mentioning: Presto, J.G. Thompson in "Top Secrets of Magic" Vol. 1, Pg. 120; Conoisseurs Coins Across, in Gen; and James' First, in Martin Lewis' book. Also, James Lewis has nice verstions, one through a glass top table.