Stabbed in the Pack

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Kent Gunn
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Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Kent Gunn » July 9th, 2017, 9:21 pm

Did this at my local magic club recently. One of the guys liked it. (what does he know?)

Told me to spread the wealth. My source is listed in the video itself.

This really is a great trick and I've never seen anyone else do it.

https://youtu.be/2AYdjMkQ7z0

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 9th, 2017, 11:05 pm

I saw Harry Lorayne do this all the time as a kid (I was the kid).
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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby I.M. Magician » July 10th, 2017, 12:24 am

Nice work Kent. I really enjoyed that. I watched a few of your other videos including Triumph and enjoyed them as well.

You are my new favorite magician!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 4:13 am

I have messed about with this trick for years. I have only done it once for a layman and he said it was the best trick I had ever showed him. I do it rarely because I am not that good with it and it only works about half the time because of my uselessness. However, nowadays I have great outs if it doesn't work so I may start doing it again.

But the reason I am posting is that I have an evil mind and cannot resist telling a little story about this trick. I am far too tactful to mention names but it concerns a certain long winded reviewer in magic magazines. He has a tendency to use ten words where one will do but I shall hastily move on and relate the tale.

It was at some event or other put on by David Ben in Toronto. David was foolish enough to invite me. I remember Richard Kaufman there who addressed me as "Satan" which some would deem impolite but since I am a great fan of Satan I considered it a compliment. There was somebody lecturing about something or other and I have no memory of who it was as I detest magic lectures but I do need somewhere to sleep sometimes. Alas lectures bore the crap out of me since I know everything anyway. However, I am terribly polite and try to sit behind a fat member of the audience so the lecturer cannot see me sleeping or reading a book.

Anyway when the lecture was over the agony was prolonged by various worthies doing mini lectures so I went back into dreamland again. And then this reviewer chap came on and I did pay attention because he demonstrated the stabbing trick which I do have an interest in. He seemed very pleased with himself which I found odd since he kept missing and his frequency of success seemed to be even worse than mine. And worse still he was doing it about half an inch away from the pack which looks a bit pathetic. I believe if you are going to do this trick then at least do it so it appears as if you are doing it from a fair distance away and you can create the illusion of this if you do it properly. In fact I think Harry tells you how to do this in his book. It should look as if you are doing it from about a foot away at least.

After the lecture was over. I decided to amuse myself with the trick since I saw an ideal surface to do it on so I started to show it to a magician friend of mine on this surface. However, there was a damn fan nearby which kept blowing the bloody card off course and it kept missing. Suddenly there was a booming voice saying, "way too far, way too far!". I do not appreciate any criticism from any source whatsoever about my work on the perfectly valid premise that I am far superior to anyone else. On that basis I only wish to hear unadulterated praise and glory and anyone who dares to offer "constructive criticism" to me will be sent off with a flea in his ear. Anyway I responded to this impertinent chap who had addressed me without a formal invitation to do so, "It is NOT too far! You are SUPPOSED to make it look like it came from a distance" He had the audacity to reply, "Well, you missed" I snorted, "I watched your lecture. So did you!" which he did not seem to appreciate. Then I uttered the fatal words. "Besides I am MARK LEWIS so I cannot possibly be wrong!"

When I uttered these awful words the poor chap went white at the mention of my awful name and suddenly stormed off in a mighty huff without saying a word.

All I shall merely say is that if you are going to do a lecture on a trick it is a good idea if you can do the trick properly in the first place.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby erdnasephile » July 10th, 2017, 9:34 am

Kent---that fooled me! Thanks!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Steve Bryant » July 10th, 2017, 10:14 am

Walk downstairs, as I did, and look up the damned trick. Then watch Kent do it again. NOW you are going to be very, very impressed.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Kent Gunn » July 10th, 2017, 10:46 am

Steve, Erdnasephile, et. al.

Mostly Steve though, I'm glad someone got the intent of my video.

I like to think I've improved the mechanics of a great trick.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 10th, 2017, 11:16 am

Wow! Kent, you just kicked my ass for several really good reasons. :)

Harry used to start halfway across the room from the deck (which was sitting on the table, or the counter at Tannens which made the trick easier since the counter was higher than a table). He would begin his spiel, gesturing with the card in his hand, and edge closer. This went on for about two minutes and eventually he was about three feet from the deck, but when his hand was extended (at the moment the card was released), his hand was a foot to a foot and a half from the deck. In fact, Harry always bounced the card off the table about six inches in front of the deck. His experience was that if you threw the card straight to the deck it would sail right over it.

I have done this at various times over the years, and find that slamming my hand down on the table at the moment of release not only ensures greater likelihood that the card will properly bounce and enter the deck, but the "bang" when my hands hits the table scares the crap out of the spectators. But Kent's method is like an arrow shot from a bow: sleek as hell. Amazing. Like Bruce Lee!

Kent, if you bounced the card off the table I didn't see it. In fact, I don't think your method would work if you bounced it. I have an idea what you're doing, and it's great. Would love to print it in Genii! :)
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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby erdnasephile » July 10th, 2017, 11:31 am

Steve Bryant wrote:Walk downstairs, as I did, and look up the damned trick. Then watch Kent do it again. NOW you are going to be very, very impressed.


I was familiar with the Lorayne MO before I saw the video, which was why Kent absolutely killed me! I kept expecting him to substitute the Marlo deck-stabbing move, but when the "move" came...there was no move! Arghghggh! I love it! :D

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 11:54 am

I knew where the card was going to be since I saw a little step in the deck but of course I am psychic and know these things. And it appears there IS a reason, after all, that the card has to be named. It does give a warning if you have missed I assume. And I bet it does miss from time to time. But I don't mean missing the throw--I mean missing the estimation. In other words two chances of missing rather than one. And of course you don't get the illusion of distance that you do with Harry's method.

Mind you, I am not criticising. I am merely pointing these things out before Harry does. But do not worry. I have a sequence of outs if the thing goes wrong. I assume Kent does have something in mind along those lines too. Mine are merely words and not moves and allows me to do the whole thing again up to three times. Various gags if I miss. However, if after three tries I am not getting anywhere I tell them that I am going to do the emergency method and do the boomerang card trick which is more or less the same thing. It is just as difficult to do but I am better at it having spun cards for years out in the crowd to draw attention when I am selling svengali decks. So I never miss with this one. I use the Cy Endfield method described in Ganson's book but find it far easier to use a Charlier cut rather than the way described in the book.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Kent Gunn » July 10th, 2017, 11:55 am

Richard,

I definitely bounce it off the table. I don't think I'm doing what you think I'm doing.

KG

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Kent Gunn » July 10th, 2017, 11:58 am

Mark,

You're right about the reason for naming the card. It's a check. I'm mostly checking to see if the spectator is an [censored] and will name the wrong card. You are a perceptive SOB though.

There's no step in the deck at the toss. I have the spectator square the deck for me.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 12:01 pm

Then there must be some kind of bloody mark since I saw it before you tossed the card. And the card ended up just where I saw it. Perhaps you forced the card and it had some kind of marking down the edge or maybe there was a key card marked or something. I had better watch the video again.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 12:09 pm

I watched the video again and have no idea what you were up to. I was suspicious of saliva for a moment because of you wetting your finger but it doesn't seem to have been that after all. Anyway best of luck with it.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Luigi Anzivino » July 10th, 2017, 12:24 pm

This is… devious and wonderful! But unless I'm mistaken (and I probably am) you told one great big lie which is having all the magicians scratching their heads.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 10th, 2017, 12:46 pm

I am mystified, Kent! Huzzah!
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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm

Quite frankly I don't like the showing of the upper packet. It wastes time and lessens the impact. If your reasoning is simply that the spectator will name the wrong card deliberately then that can easily be solved by the spectator showing the card to the rest of the audience. However, I am suspicious that you are being economical with the truth regarding this and that you HAVE to look through the spread for another reason. It is a weak part of the trick if this is the case. It is FAR better from a dramatic and theatrical point of view if you simply lift the top half, put it aside and then reveal the card underneath the thrown one. Wasted time dilutes the impact.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 1:05 pm

Luigi Anzivino wrote:This is… devious and wonderful! But unless I'm mistaken (and I probably am) you told one great big lie which is having all the magicians scratching their heads.


Yes. I sense a lie too and have done from the beginning.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Bob Coyne » July 10th, 2017, 1:11 pm

Nice trick/method. My assumption is a gaffed deck...clue is the way the 2H is displayed/held.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 10th, 2017, 1:19 pm

Phenomenal!

But I do not see any possibility of any "sleight" having occurred at the time it is represented that one is being done.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Luigi Anzivino » July 10th, 2017, 1:33 pm

Bob Coyne wrote:Nice trick/method. My assumption is a gaffed deck...clue is the way the 2H is displayed/held.


That's my guess too… I think that's the big lie: it's not a borrowed deck!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 10th, 2017, 1:36 pm

Luigi Anzivino wrote:
Bob Coyne wrote:Nice trick/method. My assumption is a gaffed deck...clue is the way the 2H is displayed/held.


That's my guess too… I think that's the big lie: it's not a borrowed deck!



Agreed.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby I.M. Magician » July 10th, 2017, 1:45 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Luigi Anzivino wrote:
Bob Coyne wrote:Nice trick/method. My assumption is a gaffed deck...clue is the way the 2H is displayed/held.


That's my guess too… I think that's the big lie: it's not a borrowed deck!



Agreed.



If this is so, perhaps we are talking two magnetic cards (one of them being the flat blue back one) which would explain how he makes the stabbing look so darn easy!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 10th, 2017, 1:53 pm

I think we are talking more like the whole thing is a mirage.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Luigi Anzivino » July 10th, 2017, 1:58 pm

I.M. Magician wrote:If this is so, perhaps we are talking two magnetic cards (one of them being the flat blue back one) which would explain how he makes the stabbing look so darn easy!


Mmm… I think it's simpler than that. Bob nailed it, ultimately (wink wink) the clue is in the way the 2H is displayed both times. Or that could be a feint too!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby erdnasephile » July 10th, 2017, 2:09 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Luigi Anzivino wrote:
Bob Coyne wrote:Nice trick/method. My assumption is a gaffed deck...clue is the way the 2H is displayed/held.


That's my guess too… I think that's the big lie: it's not a borrowed deck!



Agreed.


Or since the performance was at a magic club meeting, perhaps he simply borrowed a gaffed deck... ;)

Regardless, I was fooled, and I enjoyed it!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Brad Henderson » July 10th, 2017, 3:14 pm

suddenly craving a deep fried ham and cheese sandwich from the new orleans cafe at disneyland.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Tom Gilbert » July 10th, 2017, 3:20 pm

I think the evil Kent is laughing his ass off right now.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 3:36 pm

Oddly enough although this is not the way that Kent did it, it COULD be done with saliva! Just a moment. I am going to test it out! Good God! It works!

I remember that Malini would do a colour change and show that the two cards were not next to each other by using saliva so they would stick together. So in this trick the selected card could be controlled to the top. You secretly smear saliva all over the top selected card. Momentarily place the throw card back to back on the top of the deck then remove it again. You will have two cards stuck together. An impromptu double faced card in other words.

Throw this into the deck. You can work out the rest yourself.

Kent does not do it this way but I think I have just invented something!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 10th, 2017, 3:51 pm

I thought I left a huge clue, but nobody has seemed to pick up on it, much less agree or disagree.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Bob Coyne » July 10th, 2017, 4:06 pm

Luigi Anzivino wrote:
Bob Coyne wrote:Nice trick/method. My assumption is a gaffed deck...clue is the way the 2H is displayed/held.


That's my guess too… I think that's the big lie: it's not a borrowed deck!


Yes, and another clue is the way the face up deck is spread (and what you can actually see).
Last edited by Bob Coyne on July 10th, 2017, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 4:07 pm

I thought of a svengali deck but I can tell by looking at the ends if that is the case. However, the Mirage Deck (what we British in our superior wisdom call the Rough and Smooth deck) could be used instead.

However this entire conversation, amusing and intriguing as it is brings back the old saying by Al Baker, "Many a trick has been killed by improvement". I think that may well be the case here.

I am going to stick (no pun intended) to Harry's method and be done with it!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 10th, 2017, 4:39 pm

Performer, you clearly picked up on the clue. And my theory is consistent with what Bob Coyne observed about the face up spread and what you can see. It is also consistent with how the card is selected (which is Not a free choice), how the "selection" is shown to the spectator, the fact that the selection is placed back in the same place in the deck from whence it came, and how it is ultimately revealed. Still takes some finesse to pull it off, though, and I would give props to Kent for telling a whopper of a story - quite entertaining actually, despite his disclaimer of having no personality. I must admit I was fooled when I first saw the video.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby erdnasephile » July 10th, 2017, 5:10 pm

I think Brad is correct. This isn't likely a Mirage deck--you can count on it! ;)

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 10th, 2017, 6:16 pm

erdnasephile wrote:I think Brad is correct. This isn't likely a Mirage deck--you can count on it! ;)


What makes you say that, Erdnasephile?

Can you please explain?

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 7:02 pm

I see that Harry is discussing this on the magic cafe. I like his version the best although I do agree with Kent about his way of ending. I can do it but I have never been comfortable with it although I am sure Harry does it to perfection. I may well investigate alternative methods for doing this.
Vernon had a card force that may well have possibilities different from its original intention.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby performer » July 10th, 2017, 7:06 pm

Oddly enough it WOULD work perfectly with a svengali deck! I might just try it since I have the deck so often in my hand! I would never do that display of the top half though. Complete waste of time and energy. When you slow the action of a trick down like that it loses the impact.

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby David Penn » July 10th, 2017, 7:50 pm

Kent is a true Mastermind!!

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Brad Jeffers » July 10th, 2017, 8:55 pm

David Penn wrote:Kent is a true Mastermind!

That's what I thought.
But how do you explain the Jack of Spades above the selection?

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Re: Stabbed in the Pack

Postby Doomo » July 10th, 2017, 8:59 pm

Kent is certainly loving this! Lovin it!
RFA Productions yeah... It is cool stuff.

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