Strong ITR?

[drewt]

I'm looking to cause a falling object to fall noticeably slower than normal (similar to the orange in the movie "The Illusionist"). The object I need to manipulate is 40g (1.4oz) and fits in my palm. I tested an ITR but it was not nearly strong enough. Any thoughts of a method for this?

[Tom Moore]

Stronger thread.....

We're going to need much more information on your performing environment and technical needs than you have currently provided. I have an "invisible" thread I regularly use that can hold about 40lbs but it requires specialist pulleys and is only invisible to an audience 20ft away in typical theatrical settings. That would meet your needs as described but almost certainly isn't practically possible for you so you will have to fill in some of the detail before anyone can give a practical answer as there are many different grades, strengths and thickness's of thread but each has different performance constraints that will impact its suitability.

[performer]

I think invisible thread is pathetic at least for my purposes. It has too high a breakage frequency for me. I use thread all the time when I am selling the wonder mouse, the worm and the spooky pencil. I use fishing line. Once in a blue moon someone catches it but I simply growl at them and that cures the problem. However, the convenience of not having to tie on a new thread every five minutes makes it worth it. And of course I have certain moves which cover the thread anyway.

On stage I don't see the point of invisible thread. Fishing line is just as good and they won't be able to see it from a distance if you wear the proper clothing.

[drewt]

I'm a university professor and amateur magician and occasionally use effects to emphasize a point in class (and to maintain attention). I teach upperclass and grad students so the classes are small (max 40) and well lit. Angles are OK with maybe 130º being the worst, no one on direct sides or behind.. Lighting is typical florescent classroom overhead lights. Fishing line might be difficult but it I ditch it quickly enough, it would be strong enough.

Other thoughts appreciated.

Stronger thread.....

We're going to need much more information on your performing environment and technical needs than you have currently provided. I have an "invisible" thread I regularly use that can hold about 40lbs but it requires specialist pulleys and is only invisible to an audience 20ft away in typical theatrical settings. That would meet your needs as described but almost certainly isn't practically possible for you so you will have to fill in some of the detail before anyone can give a practical answer as there are many different grades, strengths and thickness's of thread but each has different performance constraints that will impact its suitability.

[Jonathan Townsend]

... to fall noticeably slower than normal...

lower acceleration? do you have a case or podium or bench table to put the workings out of sight and a cloth to manage the optical cover for what supports the item?

[drewt]

Nope, it's performed in front of the class. I do wear a sports coats (blazer) in class.

... to fall noticeably slower than normal...

lower acceleration? do you have a case or podium or bench table to put the workings out of sight and a cloth to manage the optical cover for what supports the item?

[Jonathan Townsend]

The lighting/background optics for IT work gets interesting. The stuff from Finn Jon's Silver Stick was pretty good. The dyed IT for the Rising Cards was also okay.

Curious what mechanics you decided upon, stepper motor control - gears? When you've got a base and backdrop in place there are more robust options using supports rather than IT.

[Tom Moore]

Ok, fluorescent lighting is the enemy of all filament based threads (which encompasses most "invisible" threads) so there's a need to think laterally here as almost any invisible thread you use is going to flare/glare under that lighting condition.

I would be inclined to use a thin black cotton, wear a sportscoat / shirt that has a busy pattern on it (sharkstooth, small plaid, bold pinstripe) and perform the slow-motion drop at roughly chest height so that you have natural camouflage of your clothing. A thin cotton would be more than capable of supporting the weight you're talking about and would be surprisingly invisible from just a few feet away.

[Eoin O'hare]

Maybe not quite the magic you're looking for ,but what about a Lenz's law demo?

http://youtu.be/N7tIi71-AjA

[drewt]

I'm trying to do this in front of the room, so large devices won't work. Fortunately, the object (a slide advancing clicker) is only 40 grams. I'm also an amateur clockmaker so I'm thinking an adapted design of the basic ITR but with a coil spring (like in a wind-up clock... or watch more likely) would give the illusion of a decelerating fall.

The lighting/background optics for IT work gets interesting. The stuff from Finn Jon's Silver Stick was pretty good. The dyed IT for the Rising Cards was also okay.

Curious what mechanics you decided upon, stepper motor control - gears? When you've got a base and backdrop in place there are more robust options using supports rather than IT.

[drewt]

I've thought about this but oddly, this is real physics but can be questioned since it happens in a tube. I'm looking to defy physics in the open. It's a cool effect though.

Maybe not quite the magic you're looking for ,but what about a Lenz's law demo?

http://youtu.be/N7tIi71-AjA

[drewt]

This may work. I have several herringbone jackets and could wear a dark shirt underneath. Combing this stronger, dark natural filament into a custom-made "ITR" with a small watch coil spring may solve all the environmental problems. If only IT was stronger!

Thanks!

Ok, fluorescent lighting is the enemy of all filament based threads (which encompasses most "invisible" threads) so there's a need to think laterally here as almost any invisible thread you use is going to flare/glare under that lighting condition.

I would be inclined to use a thin black cotton, wear a sportscoat / shirt that has a busy pattern on it (sharkstooth, small plaid, bold pinstripe) and perform the slow-motion drop at roughly chest height so that you have natural camouflage of your clothing. A thin cotton would be more than capable of supporting the weight you're talking about and would be surprisingly invisible from just a few feet away.

[Jonathan Townsend]

...a coil spring...would give the illusion of a decelerating fall.

A holdout with a 2/1 pulley ratio might be easier. Black thread - a hidden pulley and weight.

[drewt]

I think I get what you are saying about pulley, etc. but not familiar with what a holdout is. I think I could create a fairly small device using the spring, but its complex. If the holdout is easy to load into a jacket, that may be easier to build and operate.

...a coil spring...would give the illusion of a decelerating fall.

A holdout with a 2/1 pulley ratio might be easier. Black thread - a hidden pulley and weight.

[Jonathan Townsend]

The weight needs a place to fall half the distance of the clicker. All but the length from your hand to where the clicker falls (tabletop?), including the pulley, is inside your jacket. There's a fine book titled "holdout miracles" available. One guy used to sell the differential setup all ready to pin in place.

Basics:
* nobody has to see all of what's inside your jacket, right?
* the slower fall is because the 2/1 ratio where the clicker is falling twice as far as the weight on the other side of the line.
* That's probably reverse of what most magicians would use it for.
* It's okay to contain the part in your jacket - so things don't get tangled.
* it's a good idea to put things away in your inside jacket pocket(s) when not in use.

BTW, the [censored] reel exists in magicdom. Used for another purpose and not so good for falling clickers.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Revisiting this as had to explore pulleys again recently...

The spring could give you a reverse gravity effect. Accelerates upward/time reversed falling.

A simple pulley setup 2/1 with a small weight to keep tension could give you the lower acceleration effect.

Chalk in one hand, clicker in the other - repeats Galileo's experiment dropping items to floor - asks class to ponder how much slower red chalk falls compared to blue chalk.