Two in the hand and one in the pocket

[Thomas Van Aken]

Hello,

A question for those performing any version of two in the hand and one in the pocket such as three balls routine or gadabout coins. What is in your opinion the best timing to exit the pocket with your "dirty hand" ?

Exiting the pocket at the moment you reveal the magical effect in your other hand is an option but the movement of the "dirty" hand may attract attention and dilute attention, so maybe a beat later is better. An author suggest exiting the pocket immediately after putting the hand in it but at that moment you have no real misdirection.

It is important that the spectators register that you put the third object in your pocket but the movement of hand exiting the pocket must not attract attention asit is very difficult to do it perfectly naturally. When exiting the pocket, another author suggest to briefly handle the lapel before letting the hand drop at side, a good idea in my opinion.

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts

Regards

Th.

[mr_goat]

I take the dirty hand out of the pocket immediately. To me, it would be unnatural to leave my hand in my pocket. If you asked 100 people to take a thing and put it in the pocket, I'd wager all of them would remove their hand immediately after completing the task.

[Thomas Van Aken]

Hi mr_goat,

If you strive for naturalness then I agree 100%; however it is very difficult to remove the dirty hand naturally from your pocket but this depend also of the type and size of the object you are hiding.

On the other hand, keeping the hand in your pocket until revelation of the effect probably visually clarifies it in the eyes of the audience.

What object and routine do you use ?

Regards

Th.

[Ian Kendall]

Track down a copy of Jarle Lierpol's Pocket Power (it's a book and a video). He goes into detail about the best ways to remove your hand from a pocket, when and how to cover the action.

As for your question; set up a camera and record yourself putting things in, and taking them out of your pocket many, many times. Change the timing, blocking and actions with the other hand. After that, watch the video back and decide which action looked the least bad to you. Then, take that and refine it.

These questions rarely have a fixed answer, because it is tied in so strongly with the performer's body language and character. What works for Damian, for example might not work for you and vice versa.

[Q. Kumber]

Hold main hand in front of you as dirty hand goes to pocket where it should only stay for a beat or half beat. As you remove dirty hand gesture with main hand towards the audience so attention is on it, hold it perfectly still, then after a beat, open it.

[Thomas Van Aken]

To Ian,

The "other author" I mention is Mr Leirpol and the technique explained come from his book. Having hosted Mr. Leirpol for a few lectures in Belgium many years ago, I can testify of the effectiveness of his techniques.

I agree that there are no black and white rules in this domain, that's the reason I opened this post to discuss what others are doing an why.

To Quentin,

Thanks for sharing your way.

Regards

Th.

[Q. Kumber]

The move must coördinate with your body language and natural rhythm as Ian suggested. But equally important is your verbal interaction with the audience.

While I know it is a classic, I've always thought it was a pointless trick which made the audience look stupid.
"Wrong … wrong again … still wrong, you schmuck."

[mr_goat]

Hi mr_goat,

If you strive for naturalness then I agree 100%; however it is very difficult to remove the dirty hand naturally from your pocket but this depend also of the type and size of the object you are hiding.

On the other hand, keeping the hand in your pocket until revelation of the effect probably visually clarifies it in the eyes of the audience.

What object and routine do you use ?

Regards

Th.

I use the Ganson routine. And I tend to use small objects. I usually do it with anything around. Olives, crumpled bits of paper, anything really. Disgustingly, when I used to smoke I would do it with cigarette butts. The mere thought of that appals me now!

[performer]

The move must coördinate with your body language and natural rhythm as Ian suggested. But equally important is your verbal interaction with the audience.

While I know it is a classic, I've always thought it was a pointless trick which made the audience look stupid.
"Wrong … wrong again … still wrong, you schmuck."

Quentin. I have been doing this for years although you may have never seen me do it. You make a good point but you can easily get around the problem with your patter.

Simply don't ask them how many are in the hand! I will explain what to say when I get to a real computer after the weekend.

[performer]

Incidentally the same argument could be applied to the chop cup but it probably doesn't because it has a stronger surprised to distract from the issue.

I keep the asking thing to a minimum also when doing the three card Monte or the 3 shell game for the same reason. It is all in the patter.

Anyway this is what I say with the ball trick.

"For some strange reason the ball in my pocket jumps right back to my hand"

Easy isn't it? I do ask where the ball is for the surprise climax though.

[performer]

As for the timing of the hand from the pocket I have no bloody idea what my timing is. I have never once thought about it. All I know is that I have never been caught in all the decades I have been doing it. Not even once.

I will have to figure out what I have been doing instinctively all these years when I get time

[Bill Mullins]

These questions rarely have a fixed answer, because it is tied in so strongly with the performer's body language and character. What works for Damian, for example might not work for you and vice versa.

Absolutely. When I stick my hand in Damian's pocket, the momentum of the trick is completely disrupted.

[Joe Pecore]

These questions rarely have a fixed answer, because it is tied in so strongly with the performer's body language and character. What works for Damian, for example might not work for you and vice versa.

Absolutely. When I stick my hand in Damian's pocket, the momentum of the trick is completely disrupted.

But how long do you leave it in there though?

[mr_goat]

These questions rarely have a fixed answer, because it is tied in so strongly with the performer's body language and character. What works for Damian, for example might not work for you and vice versa.

Absolutely. When I stick my hand in Damian's pocket, the momentum of the trick is completely disrupted.

But how long do you leave it in there though?

Never, ever long enough.

Sigh.

[MagicbyAlfred]

Only as long as it takes to extract any available cash. Always the best (and most profitable) way to have fun with your unwitting magician friends...

As far as making the spectator "wrong" in this routine, or in 3 Card Monte, or Chop Cup, for that matter, it never needs to be done if the routine is constructed to avoid it. (e.g. I am the sucker who got taken in the monte at age 17 in New York - and I never ask them which card is the money card...

[Larry Horowitz]

The move must coördinate with your body language and natural rhythm as Ian suggested. But equally important is your verbal interaction with the audience.

While I know it is a classic, I've always thought it was a pointless trick which made the audience look stupid.
"Wrong … wrong again … still wrong, you schmuck."

I never make the audience "wrong".

As my dirty hand is entering the pocket, my other hand is moving forward and I am speaking to the audience. I am asking them a form of "What SHOULD be in my hand?" Not what IS? This is a slight difference that makes a world of difference. In my particular presentation I am using dice and talking about losing my money in Vegas. So my question includes my thought of what should be in my hand. I know what should be in my hand. They know what should be in my hand. And yet we both find it is not so.

Because of the timing of question, movement , answer, there is so little heat on my dirty hand that I can remove it a almost any pace I want. My exact timing will vary depending upon the size and location around me of the audience.

Consider also, that much like palming a card, if YOU forget about the dirty hand, so will your audience.

[MagicbyAlfred]

This has been a very informative and helpful thread - chock full of good points and suggestions!

[Brad Henderson]

'how many coins DID YOU SEE go into my hand?"

[John M. Dale]

While I know it is a classic, I've always thought it was a pointless trick which made the audience look stupid.
"Wrong … wrong again … still wrong, you schmuck."

I agree if you present it that way, which is how I used to do it. "How many are in my hand now? Wrong!"

I changed my script to mumbo-jumbo about one of the coins being a magic coin (the one that is "always" the opposite of the other two - heads vs tails which happens, most of the time and is easy to make happen when it doesn't). I do this pretty much verbatim from Modern Coin Magic and use the "magic" coin to do the coin thru the hand sequence to prove it's magic properties. It's also the "attracter". When it's in the hand with one of the two non-magic coins it attracts the one in the pocket to the hand. I put the magic coin in my pocket last & it attracts both non-magic coins to join it in the pocket.

Now isn't a challenge or eyesight test, just magic. Goes over much better.

JMD

[Brad Henderson]

I think I have solved the problem as stated by Quentin. I will be releasing it, hopefully soon. I hope you like it. It's kind of clever and makes the piece real magic, if I do say so.

[performer]

I have now analysed what I do regarding the timing of removing the hand from the pocket. It varies ever single time. Sometimes I keep the hand in my pocket and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I gesture with my hand and sometimes I don't.In other words it doesn't matter what the hell you do. Do it any way that you bloody well like and which seems natural to you.
The most important thing is not to even bother thinking about it. It is thinking that DOESN'T make it so!

It is the thinking that makes you feel guilty and gives the game away. Even to call it the dirty hand is awful. You should never think of it a s "dirty hand" at all. In fact you shouldn't even think about it in the firsrt place.

I never do and have NEVER been caught in all the decades I have been doing it.

[Dan LeFay]

Did anyone of you consider the rather large difference in "naturalness" when putting a hand in and removing it, from jeans compared to non-jeans-trousers?
If I would putting something away in my jeans, my hand would not enter the pocket at all. My fingers would just dip in to leave the object.
Is there any variation known, where some kind of retention vanish to the pocket is used?
(There is a refined technique in card to pocket handling,if I'm not mistaken the Norman Houghton technique?).
Does this make any sense?
I do not particularly like this trick, but removing a hand from a jeans pocket always draws attention to me. For informal situations this should be a point of attention.

[performer]

I always do it with my jacket pocket. You get in and out more quickly when you do that. Trouser pockets are a bit slow to get out of and jeans are even worse.

Maybe the agonising over this matter is because people are using jeans or trouser pockets. I never realised that. I bet that may well be the problem people are having. Thanks for sharing that.

[El Mystico]

During the loading sequence for the Vernon cups and balls routine, his hand is in his pocket for a ridiculous period of time. Watch any of the videos. But who noticed that?

[performer]

You can't compare the two. There is a world of difference between all the action of the larger props and built in misdirection of the cups and balls and the piddly little two in the hand and one in the pocket.

And to prove what I say here he is doing the latter trick! He seems to take his hand out the pocket fairly sharpish here! At one point he doesn't which means he is doing exactly what I do. Sometimes slow and sometimes fast. In other words he isn't thinking about the daft hand in his pocket. You divest all importance in your mind concerning the matter. That is what I do and that is what Vernon does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6y4VPguBy8