Raise Rise. A question

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
User avatar
Mr Hurley
Posts: 113
Joined: September 30th, 2014, 4:45 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Mr Hurley » September 13th, 2015, 5:05 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Mr Hurley wrote:... Am I missing anything?


...lots of time with audiences, performing

IMHO you'd be well served to explore some of the basics of magic in general before diving into a specialty. Otherwise you wind up being fooled by a dove steal and and reinventing lots of wheels. :)


I'd like to delve into other areas, especially coins. I figured I'd focus on card first. I didn't know if delving into both areas at once would be overextending my reach.

If that's the case, I'll need help with areas involving coins as well. I recognize the name 'Bobo'...Modern Coin Magic!
Is that all right to start with?

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 27058
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 13th, 2015, 5:24 pm

There are three large books on coin magic:
Bobo's Modern Coin Magic
CoinMagic
David Roth's Expert Coin Magic.

I wrote the latter two.
Also, both of Ross Bertram's books are superb sources of material (as is the Stars of Magic).
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4766
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby erdnasephile » September 13th, 2015, 7:12 pm

Mr Hurley wrote:
performer wrote:Get books first but they should be BEGINNER'S books. I STILL read beginner's books avidly. It is there that the best material often lies.


All right, from what it looks like: Card College 1-5, Expert Card Technique, and Royal Road to Card Magic. Am I missing anything?


I would respectfully suggest starting with Card College 1, really study and learn it, and save the rest until later. I've found that sometimes having too many resources at once just means the student masters none of them. It's way to easy to get distracted and as a result, progress is slowed. Also, IMHO, ECT isn't a particularly good beginner's book. (YMMV).

In terms of your question about disembodied sleights. What I meant was, if you just practice sleights out of context of the actions and presentation of routines, it's easy to pick up a lot of bad habits that expose the existence of the sleight.

Sleights should be secret methods, not overt displays of skill. If you just practice a sleight over and over without learning how to get into the move naturally in an actual routine, you become prone to "framing" the move (i.e. tipping the audience off that a secret move is about to be done.) Watching some magicians, you can always tell they are about to do a sleight because they project tension. The sleight is not hidden in motivated motions within a routine. (It's somewhat like watching divers in the Olympics just before their dive.) It's also possible to tip the move during and after it is done unless it is followed by natural actions and presentation. While the audience may not see exactly what the sleight entails, just knowing that something fishy has taken place is just as detrimental the effect of magic. To paraphrase my namesake, the audience should not suspect, let alone detect, sleight of hand--which is a very difficult thing to do.

That's why I advocate learning sleights as you need to do routines that you wish to perform. Then, practice them within the context of routines. The strength of Card College and Royal Road is that they teach sleights in the context of really good routines.

Remember: card sleights are just tools to accomplish effects. The audience should ideally not be aware of them if you wish to create the true sensation of magic. I'd much rather have: "He didn't do anything!" than "Boy, you sure have fast hands!"

These are just my personal opinions--others who prefer a different style of magic may certainly reasonably disagree.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 27058
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 13th, 2015, 8:37 pm

He might just as easily find Lorayne's Close-Up Card Magic more rewarding. You learn sleights and excellent routines of varying skill levels, and it's not as didactic as Card College.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

performer
Posts: 3508
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby performer » September 13th, 2015, 9:10 pm

I have only cursorily looked at Card College. It comes across as too dry for me. And it is TOO MUCH! It would take years for a beginner to plough through it. I am still studying the Royal Road decades after getting it. In fact I was looking at it today.

The Royal Road is enough for one lifetime. Each chapter leads to the next in an excellent study plan. The tricks in it are excellent and peppered throughout the book are wonderful tips on presentation. There is a mix of self working and sleight of hand.

Some of the suggested patter is very whimsical indeed and quite entertaining.

The only reason I recommend Expert Card Technique is simply because of the presentation section. The rest of it is far too advanced for a beginner. I would recommend going through the Royal Road step by careful step and then Harry's Close up Card Magic as Richard suggested. It is a fantastic book and created quite a sensation in the magic world when it first came out. I was enthralled with it but by then I had got the foundations from the Royal Road.

I can't emphasize enough that you need to get the basic foundations under your belt before getting mired in the tough stuff. Even experienced magicians can't do some of the tough stuff so a beginner should keep well clear of it until he is ready. And he won't be ready for a long time. Learning the tricks is the easy part. The hard part is to make them entertaining and presentable.

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4766
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby erdnasephile » September 13th, 2015, 9:11 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:He might just as easily find Lorayne's Close-Up Card Magic more rewarding. You learn sleights and excellent routines of varying skill levels, and it's not as didactic as Card College.


Yes! I like that suggestion very much.

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4766
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby erdnasephile » September 13th, 2015, 9:16 pm

performer wrote:I have only cursorily looked at Card College. It comes across as too dry for me. And it is TOO MUCH! It would take years for a beginner to plough through it. I am still studying the Royal Road decades after getting it. In fact I was looking at it today.


I actually enjoy reading Card College better than Royal Road. Giobbi is pretty detailed, but his routines are quite good for the most part (especially in the later volumes) and I think he is easy to read (provided you take one volume at a time). I really like the pedagogical approach he takes.

The DVD resource which I think is helpful to supplement the books is Daryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleights. It's nice to read the description and then see how it's supposed to look. If one wanted to go RR, the R Paul Wilson DVD is very good.

I don't think one could go wrong with either RR or CC. Horses for courses, I reckon.
Last edited by erdnasephile on September 14th, 2015, 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

performer
Posts: 3508
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby performer » September 13th, 2015, 9:20 pm

I actually think a better bet in light of the information he has given us is to get Harry Lorayne's "The Magic Book". It has been written for beginners and teaches sleight of hand very well as only Harry can teach it via the written word. It has a whole section on coins with more or less the best of the classic tricks therein. I do most of them. And the section on magic with ordinary items is excellent and of course there is a very large section on cards.

If Mr Hurley wants an all round education in close up magic I think this is the route he is best suited to go.

User avatar
Mr Hurley
Posts: 113
Joined: September 30th, 2014, 4:45 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Mr Hurley » September 13th, 2015, 9:36 pm

I have one question about coin magic:

There is a coin shop 6 minutes away that I can visit tomorrow, what would be some essential coins that I should be practicing with? The only thing I have heard is the Walking Liberty half-dollars.
Last edited by Mr Hurley on September 16th, 2015, 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bill Mullins
Posts: 5915
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Bill Mullins » September 13th, 2015, 9:50 pm

Mr Hurley wrote:There is a coin shop 6 minutes away that I can visit tomorrow, what would be some essential coins that I should be practicing with? The only thing I have heard is the Walking Liberty half-dollars.


Half-dollars are half-dollars. Get some recent Kennedy's at the bank for fifty cents each. New ones will still have sharp milling on the edges which can be useful. At that price, you won't care if you drop one and it gets dented or rolls away.

But silver does feel different to me. And if it feels different to you, you have to decide if that is good or bad.

Walking Liberties are in vogue, but I like Ben Franklin, and silver halves with his portrait are available. Plus, he offers more patter possibilities (printer, "we shall hang together. . . ", published the 1st magic trick in America, had wife/mistress in US/England/France, lightning experiments, etc.).

If you do go to the coin shop, get some English pennies as well. They shouldn't be expensive. And maybe a Mexican 20 centavos or two, in case you ever end up with a Scotch and Soda trick.

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4766
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby erdnasephile » September 14th, 2015, 12:46 am

performer wrote:I actually think a better bet in light of the information he has given us is to get Harry Lorayne's "The Magic Book". It has been written for beginners and teaches sleight of hand very well as only Harry can teach it via the written word. It has a whole section on coins with more or less the best of the classic tricks therein. I do most of them. And the section on magic with ordinary items is excellent and of course there is a very large section on cards.

If Mr Hurley wants an all round education in close up magic I think this is the route he is best suited to go.


Another terrific suggestion above, Mr. Hurley.

May I please ask: is your left hand issue permanent? (Please tell me to bug off if that's too personal and I'll delete this message). I'm just asking because we might be able to make better long term recommendations if we knew.

User avatar
Mr Hurley
Posts: 113
Joined: September 30th, 2014, 4:45 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Mr Hurley » September 14th, 2015, 1:08 am

No problem at all!

I have osteoporosis. My left wrist has apparently been broken 3 times within the last 15 months. Found that out in March. I'm gentler on my wrist, but my left thumb makes any work I do with it rather difficult, to say the least. I know osteoporosis can be reversible, and we're putting in a claim to the VA to get it worked on, but right now it's just supplement-o-rama.

So far in the last year, I've been constructing an all-Tenyo children's hospital show and I've been using the left hand as necessary (meaning just the 4 fingers. The right would be performing any necessary sleights and card fans, prop setup, etc)
Last edited by Mr Hurley on September 14th, 2015, 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mr Hurley
Posts: 113
Joined: September 30th, 2014, 4:45 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Mr Hurley » September 14th, 2015, 10:53 am

Are there also books best suited for the performance side of magic? I have been told 'Transformations' by Larry Haas is a must read. Are there any others that are also highly recommended?

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 27058
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 14th, 2015, 11:42 am

If you want to learn difficult card magic that relies mostly on one hand, then I would suggest Rene Lavand's "Mysteries of My Life," which I wrote. He did everything with one hand, and would provide more versatile sleights that could be used for many tricks.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

performer
Posts: 3508
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby performer » September 14th, 2015, 11:59 am

Mr Hurley wrote:Are there also books best suited for the performance side of magic? I have been told 'Transformations' by Larry Haas is a must read. Are there any others that are also highly recommended?



I must have mentioned approximately a thousand times or so the presentation section of Expert Card Technique. That is all you really need. However, the good news is that there is an entire chapter on magic with one hand. That should be a nice bonus for you. And the tricks in Expert Card Technique are very difficult. You seem to like that sort of thing for some odd reason.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8709
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Raise Rise. A question

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 14th, 2015, 12:02 pm

Learning to set and keep a break as you handle a pack casually, or even when you table the pack for a moment then pick it up again - can be well worth the effort.

If you learn to pinky count a small number of cards reliably you can get setup for your packet switches and smooth out some places in routines.

There's some good work on the card rise trick using sleight of hand - Ken Krenzel/Richard Kaufman's item On the Up and Up.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time


Return to “Close-Up Magic”