Help me PLEASE !!!

[Guest]

HI,
I've approached Penguin to sell an effect, Jaysin has asked me how much I'd be willing to sell it for but I don't know !

It is an ACR routine with a kicker ending...
Here's a link but please remember that I'm selling the effect and not my crappy handling.. lol
http://www.hep.man.ac.uk/u/shiv/blog/si ... 20pass.wmv

I also realise it's a bit dark but if you increase your screen brightness you should be ok..

Can you PLEASE help me value this effect !!??!!??

A few magicians which I know personally are valueing it for me too but I'd like to get a wide range of opinions..

Thanks !!!!

VJ

[Bill Mullins]

Are you trying to establish your reputation, with a "named" effect? Or are you trying to make some money?

If the former, this looks like something that might should be published in a magazine, or in a set of notes, rather than sold as a stand-alone effect.

The reason that I say this is that I wouldn't buy it without having a pretty clear description of the effect, and if I had the description, then I would try to work out my own handling (and I'm sure I would come up with something pretty close to what you have done). If the description made me believe that what I was purchasing was something more than some fairly standard moves put into a particular sequence, and then I bought it and I felt like I had been decieved, then I would think badly of you and you would end up with a bad reputation.

It's a nice sequence, but having seen the movie, it doesn't look like anything more than a sequence of multiple lifts and a pass. I don't feel like it's strong enough to be sold as a stand alone manuscript. But that's just one opinion, and others may disagree.

[Guest]

Yes it is a sequence of multiple lifts and a pass of sorts...
However I feel as if the move itself is quite good...
I worked on it for a while just woroing on the flipping move, then on the colour changing part then put them both together...

Alot of time has gone into this so I'm looking to make some money, I am also attempting to make a name for myself.

Penguin are offering me a deal I assume as an instant download (i know this isn't the best way to go) and I'm willing to accept it, the problem however is that they have asked me for a price and I don't know what to say..

Can you please help me value you it ?

Thanks,

VJ

[Guest]

Don't even worry about. If Penquin stays true to form you'll find your item released under a different name with an ad saying how grateful they are for your blessings.
Steve V

[Guest]

So what do you recommend i do ?

VJ

[Guest]

I have no clue. Maybe it's better to get something before you get nothing. Then again you may want to talk to some of the guys who release material and get their thoughts.
Steve V

[Chris Aguilar]

Pretty standard looking AC routine. Kicker seems kind of pointless. I agree with the comment that this is probably something that should be published in a magazine/notes/website, etc.

[Guest]

Penguin Magic is offering to buy this effect
because they're ignorant. Any CardGuy could
duplicate it within an hour.

Not to hurt your feelings, but if you sell
this then your reputation will be hurt by
it. Trust me-- don't rush into selling or
publishing.

I always tell the younger guys not to publish
or sell before they're 40. The scars you get
before then and the things you'll see on the
way will do wonders for your perspective.

Steven Youell

[Paul Cummins]

Originally posted by Steven Youell:
Penguin Magic is offering to buy this effect
because they're ignorant. Any CardGuy could
duplicate it within an hour.

Not to hurt your feelings, but if you sell
this then your reputation will be hurt by
it. Trust me-- don't rush into selling or
publishing.

I always tell the younger guys not to publish
or sell before they're 40. The scars you get
before then and the things you'll see on the
way will do wonders for your perspective.

Steven Youell

This is, in mho, sage advice. Listen and heed...

[Glenn Farrington]

I always tell the younger guys not to publish
or sell before they're 40. The scars you get
before then and the things you'll see on the
way will do wonders for your perspective.

Steven Youell [/QB]

True, good advice, but not always practical. Quite a few well known and respected magicians have published before they were 40. Some of it exceedingly good, some ok...some drek. In magic, this can be one of the only ways to claim something to be your own...put it in print.

Everyone is on a different path, some should not publish until they are 80...some should do us all a favor and not publish at any age. If wisdom comes with age at what age is one wise. 30? 40? 50? Pretty subjective. Scars and witnessing life happens to everyone at different rates. I know heads of companies that shouldn't be allowed to use a number 2 pencil, and I know people in their twenties that are successful poignant writers.

Although I dont agree with the before 40 comment Steve said, I do agree that a magician should wait many years of either working in the trenches professionally and even longer if you are a hobbyist, amateur or semi-pro to publish or sell. (although I'm pretty sure Sankey started publishing and selling directly from the womb...actually, if I am remembering correctly, he pre-sold orders long before the delivery date.) So I do agree with Steve on theory. Wait until you are truly ready.

Now as far as Penguin is concerned: Here's my knock knock joke in a perfect world.

Knock Knock
Who's there?
Penguin Magic.
Pengiun Magic Who? (wouldn't that be nice)

Knock Knock
Who's There?
Magic Makers.
Magic Makers who? (even nicer)

Dont sell it to penguin. The other advice given earlier in the other posts makes more sense for you.

Penguin Magic is offering to buy this effect
because they're ignorant. Any CardGuy could
duplicate it within an hour.

Not to hurt your feelings, but if you sell
this then your reputation will be hurt by
it. Trust me-- don't rush into selling or
publishing. [/QB]

Complete agreement here.

[Guest]

If Penguin is as bad as it is made out here, I don't see why they will not go ahead and sell this thing anyways... If they thought it was worth selling (which means: have people willing to buy it).

So VJ ends up NOT making ANY money out of this, while Penguin, having seen the effect can duplicate and sell it in any name...

All that is if they are really as bad as they seem from the posts.

Just a thought,

Nakul

PS: Sorry. Am in India, and thus quite ignorant about many a issues regarding stores like Penguin...

[Bill Mullins]

Originally posted by Nakul Shenoy:
PS: Sorry. Am in India, and thus quite ignorant about many a issues regarding stores like Penguin...

One of the advantages of the World Wide Web -- the ease at which people can be bastards on a global scale . . .

[Guest]

I cannot tell you whether you should publish or sell your effect to a dealer or a jobber or a manufacturer. First of all I would look for a manufacturer that sells every dealer in the country and perhaps has a nice export base of customers. Before I showed him the effect I would have him sign a non-disclosure agreement that should be drawn up by your attorney. If the effect is such that any "card guy" can duplicate it in an hour then obviously you don't have anything to sell. I would not ask for a "price" for my product. I would ask for a royalty on net sales to the dealer. Say a 5% or 10% royalty. That way if you have something special you could make a ton of money. If you have nothing that is what you will get. You may say that five or ten percent is too little to get on the miracle you are presenting to the magical fraternity. Remember the largest corporations in the world are very happy with a net profit of five per cent after taxes and they are absolutely delirious to make 10% net profit after taxes. The only manufacturer that I have ever seen make super high margins are companies like Microsoft where the materials and labor are very small after the initial research and investment and they are in a position to make very high margins.

There are many ways to structure a deal (any deal) but working on a royalty is not a bad way to go. Be sure you have a contract with the company who will be paying you the royalty and this too should be drawn by an attorney. By the way I am not an attorney.

One possibilty is if you really have something that all concerned feel is fantastic you can ask for an advance against future royalties. That way you might get paid something back for all your hard work.

No matter what, make sure you take it to an attorney to draw up. What, you can't afford an attorney, maybe give him 5 or 10 per cent of the deal to draw the papers and review them.


Hey Bob,you say, that is a lot of work to get a trick on the market and I say you are darn right it is. Don't start unless you analyze everyones advise on this forum and if you still feel you have a winner go for it. Good luck.

Bob

[Guest]

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
One of the advantages of the World Wide Web -- the ease at which people can be bastards on a global scale . . .

I am unsure how to react to that, Bill.

Cultural differences can truly bring in a difference in what was intended to be communicated, and what is perceived as having been communicated.

Trust there was nothing personal in that comment.

Nakul

[Bill Mullins]

Nakul -- rest assured that I was not referring to you in my post. Sorry that I left that impression.

Bill Mullins