Problems w/ L&L Publishing DVDs?

[Robert McDaniel]

Is anyone besides me having trouble viewing the L&L Pub. videos by Bill Malone (On the Loose) and Daryl (Does the Full Monte)? My DVD player and computer will not play them for some reason. Thanks!

Robert M

[Guest]

I have the Bill Malone DVD's and they play fine. Have you tried playing the disks on another DVD player (maybe at a friends or even at some place like Circuit City or Best Buy?

[CHRIS]

Robert,

since they don't play, neither in your DVD player nor in your computer DVD drive, I would assume the discs are faulty.

The burning process can fail. And since I assume L&L is not checking every single DVD it can be that they are broken. I would contact L&L for a replacement.

Chris Wasshuber
preserving magic one book at a time

[Oliver Corpuz]

Among my fast growing DVD collection, I have the Daryl Does the Full Monte DVD and Vol. 1 of Bill Malone's new On the Loose DVDs (I'm working my way through the series).

I haven't had a problem with either of the discs working on my DVD player or computer DVD/CD-ROM drive. I've found that the picture and sound quality are generally excellent on the DVD format. Especially when digital cameras and sound are used to record.

I have had problems with the quality of L&L's VHS media (i.e. sound dropping out), but the L&L (and other magic publisher's) DVDs I have look, sound, and play perfectly. Sometimes too perfectly. The Zarrow Shuffle DVD has a guy coughing so loudly in the microphone that it almost blew my ears out. A little post production sound editing would have been nice.

The ability to jump directly to a trick/explanation using the on-screen menus is well worth the additional cost for the DVD format. No more rewinding/fast forwarding ever again!

I like the DVD format so much that I'm starting to replace some of my VHS titles (both magic and movie) that are now becoming available on DVD.

- Oliver

p.s. It is odd that you possibly have so many bad DVDs. Did they get left inside a car on a hot summer day? DVD media, like VHS tapes, is vulnerable to heat damage that can render them useless.

[Andy Hurst]

Volume 3 of the Jay Sankey set would not play in either my computer or my DVD player, the other two volumes were OK. I got a replacement of the volume and it plays in my DVD player, but in the computer I usually have to insert the disc and take it out and put it back in a few times before it will play, and then it will occasionally lock up during playback (only in the computer).

I got the set of Bill Malone DVD's too, and one of those discs is a bit tempramental in the computer drive too, but once again it always plays in my main DVD player.

My Computer DVD has a 'zone reset' that you can do, and I find if I reset it so it has no zone set, the discs I have problems with are more likely to play (not guaranteed, but more likely).

Andy

[Guest]

I have On The Loose! and they played fine in both my DVD player and on my laptop. At first when I opened the cases I was concerned because the last 2 vol. are very scratchy, since they were loosened and moved around inside the case, but they played fine.

I just remember at times a section will get stuck on my laptop for a while and then continue.

[Robert McDaniel]

Thanks for the input, everyone! A friend tried playing one of my Bill Malone DVDs on his new DVD player and it worked, so it must be my relatively old (3 or 4 years) machine. Of course, that still doesn't explain why they won't play on my computer.

Thanks again,
Robert

[Steve Bryant]

On my not-very-old PC, a few commercial DVDs (Sex and the City comes to mind) would lock it up so tight that I had to pull the power cord in order to reboot. This is one of the reasons I bought an iMac, where all my DVDs, including Bill Malone, are playing fine. The videos are great fun to watch; do what you can to make them work.

[Keith Raygor]

I had a problem with all 3 of the Sankey DVDs playing properly, (iMac) sent them back and they were promptly replaced. They are better but still not without glitches (as well as weak audio in spots, in both sets).

On the other hand, all 4 Malone DVDs play perfect.

[Andy Hurst]

When I first played the Sankey DVD's on my Windows machine there was some weak sound spots (using Windows Media Player), so I installed the DVD player software that came with my drive and the sound was fine. I don't know diddly about iMac, but is there an alternative software DVD player you could try - it might help.

Andy

[Terry]

I don't know diddly about iMac

Andy,

I'm no expert on IMac's, but my understanding, and friends who own them, is that they have one of the best video technologies around. It blows MuchoLimp (MicroSoft) out of the water.

The Apple operating system also is not as clunky and space hogging as MicroLimps. I was considering switching to Lynux(?)operating system for my HP, but I've heard it takes time to set up the file pathways. Working full time with KHEAA (state gvmnt) and 20 hr part time job, leaves little time to deal with conversions.

[walkinoats]

www.Cnet.com
www.Download.com

Have free download trials of all types of software for both the PC and Mac

[Robert McDaniel]

That's the ticket. A friend downloaded Zoom Player off of Cnet.com for me for free, and I installed it on my PC. The Bill Malone tapes play fine. Now if we could just do something about that spectator named John on the Malone tapes!! Just kidding. Actually, I think we need to clone that guy!

Robert

[C. Hampton]

I am happy to notice that I am not the only one that notice John in the Malone tapes.
I am, like a lot of magicinas thankful to L&L publishing for the outstanding job that they are doing for the magic community, but as usual there is room for improvement.
I am going to write directly to Mr. Falanga, but the issue that I want to address is the following and I would like to get your opinions on the subject(maybe is just me I might be too picky):

-Seeing the same spectator over and over in all their videos retracts from the credibility of their reactions.
This may seem as a small detail, but I do not think it should be ovelook. It shouldn't be that difficult to get new spectators.

-The second thing is the setting. As far as the decoration goes, the painted books and the fabric covered walls they just don't look good.
I remember the classy videos from Stevens and although they didn't have the technology that L&L has, the settings, the introduccion of the performer gave to the product a classy touch that L&L still needs to acomplish.

-Please, please, please, do not strech the material that much.Example: The invisible thread series should be a volume, at the most two, but three.....

Last thing, the music at the beggining with the computer generated graphics need to go PRONTO!!!

Those are my 2 cents to improve a great product.

[Richard Kaufman]

There have been some problems with bootlegged copies of the Bill Malone DVDs being sold. They look IDENTICAL to the real L&L DVDs and it is extremely difficult to tell, except that they aren't programmed as well and lock up more often.
So, if you are having a problem, make sure that the place you bought your DVDs from is getting the directly from L&L.
Problems like this will, unfortunately, multiply in the future.

[Robert McDaniel]

No kidding!@#$! Thanks for the warning, Richard. I guess with state of the art color copiers / printers and DVD burners, it wouldn't be that hard to make near perfect bootlegs.

Robert M

[Richard Kaufman]

I just saw the October issue of MAGIC today and there's actually a news blurb about this exact subject: bogus Bill Malone DVDs that don't play well.

[Steve Brooks]

Besides the real possibility of having a bootlegged copy, there are other factors that can and do effect the quality of playback, or the lack thereof.

The manufacturing process of DVD's is a very delicate process. That, and the fact that older players may or may not recognize more recent technical innovations can and often is a major factor.

As an example, there is a very big difference in the duplicating process when it comes to 'burning' -vs- 'pressing' a disc.

When a disc is burned, it will play in about 90% of existing players, but may or may not play in yours. Also of note, is the fact that the information coded on the disc may not be there 10 years from now.

When a disc is pressed, unless there is actual physical damage (Crack, scratch, etc), it will play in any player made. Also, the information is hard coded (Usually a brass disc inside the acrylic), and will hold the information for the rest of your life.

That said, and the fact that the magic industry is pretty much a cottage industry with sales being pretty low compared to movie titles, many magic publishers elect to have their titles burned.

Why? The answer is pretty simple.
When having a disc pressed, large quantities are required on any given run, usually a thousand or more. That requires a good investment on the part of the publisher. Will the title sell a thousand copies? If not...

Burning discs is a whole different matter. Small machines can be purchased for under $2000 that will burn six discs at a time. Blanks run around $3.00, so you can imagine the savings and thus the advantages. When burning, if the title is not doing well, you've saved a bundle, plus do not have to deal with boxes of unsold copies.

Just a few things to think about... ;)

[Robert McDaniel]

Thank you, Steve. That's part of the problem right there.

Robert M

[CHRIS]

The problem with 'burned' CDs is most often the reflective layer and dye (some look blue-ish other green-ish, ...). There is only one CD manufacturer who can control the dye and who has a functioning quality control. This is Mitsui. That is why a Mitsui CD costs in bulk about $1 and other non quality CDs cost 20 cent or less. Same goes for blank DVDs.

That is why I changed very early on to Mitsui CDs. They are expensive but really good. I have maybe 1 in 500 that does not work or has some flaw. With cheapo blank CDs I had as much as every 3rd not working.

My suggestion is to look at the DVD or CD near the inside hole and check if it says Mitsui. If not ask why they don't use Mitsui.

Chris Wasshuber
preserving magic one book at a time.

[Jon Elion]

Some interesting points have been raised here about DVD recordings and pressings. Let me take a moment to try and clarify a few points. While I dont claim to be the worlds expert on the subject, I have a lot of experience with DVD recorders. My company develops, sells and supports systems that use DVD recorders for massage storage, retrieval and display of medical images. We have over 1 million patient cases managed on our systems world-wide (each case averages about 500 megabytes, or roughly the equivalent of the contents of 1 CD). That a lot of recorders and recordings!!

Chris Wasshuber correctly points out that The burning process can fail. This is true of both CD recording and DVD recording. The error is often (but not always) caught by the recording software (the error-checking is not as good as you might think or hope). The only way to be absolutely certain that the recording was 100% successful is to re-read the data back from the DVD and compare it to the original source material. Last time we checked this, we found about a 0.3% failure rate (3 out of 1000) and this was from DVDs that had apparently written okay (but then failed the double-check). This type of Quality Assurance (QA) step more than doubles the time it takes to process one DVD; the QA is essential in the medical business, but may thought by some to be less critical for consumer products.

Steve Brooks points out there is a very big difference in the duplicating process when it comes to 'burning' -vs- 'pressing' a disc... When a disc is burned, it will play in about 90% of existing players, but may or may not play in yours. This is a very interesting point. We have to be careful with nomenclature here, as DVD covers a variety of technologies. This limitation is certainly true of DVD-RAM (an optical disc that is re-writeable, and NOT able to be read in all DVD players). Re-writeable DVD (DVD-RW) has a low reflectance, and therefore may not place back in all players. DVD+RW (the technology in most Mac and PC-based DVD recorders) is supposed to have a higher reflectance, and be more universally readable. DVD-R (a type of media) is readable in virtually 100% of existing DVD-ROM (computer) and DVD (video) players (thats what we use in our product). DVD-R media CAN be recorded in a DVD+RW drive (confused yet?!). In case you are not confused yet, there are currently two different wavelengths of lasers used for the recording (but either is still universally readable). All of these recordable techniques store much less information than a commercially pressed DVD, but new recording technology is coming along soon that will close this gap.

Steve also notes that the information coded on the disc may not be there 10 years from now. This is of course hard to assess. DVD-R media has an estimated shelf life of 100 years (but I dont know HOW they measure this!). Unlike pressed discs, any of the burned media is susceptible to damage from light, so dont store them opened on your front lawn. The DVD-RAM technology, being re-writeable, may be more volatile, but I have not seen firm figures on this.

Chris Wasshuber points out the differences in the dye layers and disc manufacturing. This is an excellent point, and definitely NOT a place to look to save money. The labeling, testing, and validation of media is still filled with considerable snake oil, for example medical grade media (which may simply reflect higher pricing, not better quality!). The lesson here (as Chris points out) is to find what works well for you (in YOUR specific recorder and software) and stick with it.

-Jon Elion (jle@heartlab.com)

[Tim Trono]

Hi Robert. As Richard had previously noted, there has been a problem with illegally duplicated copies. Thus I would strongly encourage you to contact L&L directly. They may want your DVDs back to take a look at and it would be helpful if you can advise them exactly where you purchased the DVDs. The problems you are experiencing are consistent with duped units though that is not necessarily the case (it can also be a multitude of other things from a defective unit to compatibility problems with the system you have all of which have been discussed here). As Richard pointed out, the duped units are almost exact replicas but L&L would be able to tell if they are originals or duped.

It's a constant battle against illegal duplication and rental of videos that are not for rent. I see it all of the time and it REALLY hurts our field as a whole since it seriously cuts into what the producers such as L&L make and thus the drive to do more. You may think it is only a copy here and a copy there and not a big deal but it goes FAR beyond this. I'm sure more information will be ultimately coming out in reference to the rip off of the Malone DVDs as mentioned by Richard. As another example, a company was duplicating Banacheks Psychokinetic Silverware and tacking on a clip of Paul Harris Fizz Master and selling it at a low price point. We pursued this and put an end to it but I imagine they sold a large number of illegal units which ultimately cuts down on our sales and makes it less successful business wise.

The rental programs that some shops conduct are the WORST. If you see this, Id encourage you to speak up as it seriously hurts other shops, producers, the performers involved in the projects, and all of us in the end. Basically it is illegal as most videos and DVDs note that they are NOT for rental. But it is an easy way to promote illegal duplication.

A harder approach is going to be taken and your help will benefit everyone in the end.

Tim Trono

[Richard Kaufman]

The big movie studios had a fit when they first started selling video cassettes and stores began renting them to customers. They even tried to sue to stop the practice. Forget it: it is NOT illegal to rent tapes or DVDS, no matter what sort of label the manufacturer places on it.
It sucks, because it hurts sales tremendously, particularly when the guy who rents it simply dubs his own copy. That adds up to fewer sales for the manufacturer and that always hurts the quality of future products.
So, while no one who makes videotapes and DVDS likes the fact that they are rented, there is no way to prevent any entity, magic shop or individual, from renting them to others.
At least, that's the way the law has been explained to me.

[Randy DiMarco]

Actually, it is illegal to rent a video tape or DVD labeled for retail sale. The video rental stores buy tapes that are labeled for rental and pay a price much higher than retail.

[sleightly]

Just to add my two cents to a topic already wildly off course...

Many small video rental shops actually buy the DVDs/Videos at Sam's/Costco etc...

It used to be true about them buying them (often in advance of broad release) at a higher price point so they could achieve rental income, but nowadays most wait with everyone else...

ajp

[Guest]

I have a problem with L&L's DVD's and video's. That guy "John"! Everytime I watch the video or DVD, he is acting like a moron. His reaction(s) are very out of proportion. No matter how many times I watch, there he is! L&L would do well to find a few new audiance members. David could follow John out the door too!