Deleted?

[Ian Kendall]

I think Mike uses four in Tut Tut? Seems to work...

[Simone M]

While we are on the subject--which side of the "how many faros are acceptable in a trick" debate are you on? Vernon (no more than two), Marlo (as many as you need to get the job done regardless of the amount), or Miller (hates those "butt shuffles").

For me, I would answer: "it depends". Unshuffled's presentation makes sense of the multiple faros, while some tricks requiring lots of faros are suspicious-looking, unmagical monstrosities.

I think a couple of faros is enough. It depends though -- it's alright if you have to do three or four at the beginning of a trick to get in stack or something, and you can do them while talking and making eye contact with the audience . Or even tricks like Unshuffled (as you mention) or Elmsley's Colour Changing Faro have a presentation that makes sense with the multiple faros, so that's alright. Some of them though, I agree, are monstruosities (like most tricks abusing of maths).

one mega trick using faro is Vernon's Matching the Cards from a brand new pack -- which includes that fab intro where you can cut to any named value.

[erdnasephile]

I think the key to tricks with multiple faros is how casually you can do them.

If it's cut/recut, weave/unweave/weave that's one shuffle too many regardless of the total amount IMHO.

[Simone M]

aye, definitely -- but if you have tricks where you have to do a number of faros to control a known card to a know position, then have a card selected, then another faro, then this then that...it's just silly. Not that it tips off anything about the mathematical nature of the shuffle -- it just slows down the trick to the point it is unbearable.
I really can't blame people struggling with the faro -- you always get those two bloody cards sticking together once in a while, and rocking back and forth becomes a lost cause, really. I think you should be done with your faro tricks within the first 5 minutes of performance, so to avoid these problems of sticky, bent cards/wet hands.

As for other great tricks with the faro, if you master Elmsley's Brainweave you have the perfect Think of a Card trick. And Paul Wilson has the best application of the Penelope principle in ConCam Randevous (spelling?) -- Elmsley's tricks using the Penelope principle were a bit hit or miss (probably built just to showcase the possibilities of the principle), but Paul's trick is brilliant.

btw, was Paul Wilson the first to exploit the fact that there's a constant relationship between the "dealt" cards plus the "undealt" cards when using the Penelope principle? I do not remember Elmsley ever mentioning this. It might sound intuitive on paper, but it is not.

[Harry Lorayne]

I'm going to stick to my basic concept in response to some of the posts above...that is - YOU DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!!! Why in the world would I tell someone not to do more than, say, "x number of faros," if doing "x number of faros" WORKS FOR HIM??!! Obviously, I'm referring to people who do have common and also a bit of "showmansip" sense. Someone who does lousy faros, and continues to do those messy, adjustment-necessary, faros even while people in his audience stop paying attention - is not going to pay much attention to your, or my, advice anyway!!

[Harry Lorayne]

You know the problem? It's so obvious, I overlooked it. Those who are doing the "messy-adjustment-necessary" faros, and not noticing that they're losing attention, DON'T KNOW that they're doing "messy..." etc., and that they're losing attention. Nature of those beasts, I guess. No?

[mrgoat]

I'm going to stick to my basic concept in response to some of the posts above...that is - YOU DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!!! Why in the world would I tell someone not to do more than, say, "x number of faros," if doing "x number of faros" WORKS FOR HIM??!! Obviously, I'm referring to people who do have common and also a bit of "showmansip" sense. Someone who does lousy faros, and continues to do those messy, adjustment-necessary, faros even while people in his audience stop paying attention - is not going to pay much attention to your, or my, advice anyway!!

Can you think of any magicians you know that can make doing a long series of faro shuffles entertaining with showmanship?

Some youtube clips would be an excellent reference so we can all see how to make repetitive faro shuffles interesting by using showmanship.

[Harry Lorayne]

Don't know about a "long series," but I do a few effects that necessitate two or three, and I think they're pretty entertaining. Gertner's Unshuffled (the version in BOF 1) necessitates (if I'm visualizing correctly) five perfect faros - and I used to (haven't done it for some time) get screams and jaw-droppings with it. Sorry, don't know of any youtube clips, etc. Have to stick to my advice above - DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!! Simple concept (I think!).

[mrgoat]

Right, nothing other than Unshuffled that you can think of.

Thanks.

[El Mystico]

mrgoat; surely you only need one example to show that you can make a long series of faro shuffles entertaining with showmanship? That's philosophy 101. Can a cat be black? Here is a black cat. Cats can be black.

[Jonathan Townsend]

mrgoat; surely you only need one example to show that you can make a long series of faro shuffles entertaining with showmanship? That's philosophy 101. Can a cat be black? Here is a black cat. Cats can be black.

Shirley we have all heard that presentation can make a phone book recital entertaining. But what does that have to do with good practice in routine construction and using Faro shuffles when doing card magic for people?

The trick is self working since you just do eight perfect faros and then count to the number...

yawn

[brianarudolph]

Shirley we have all heard that presentation can make a phone book recital entertaining. But what does that have to do with good practice in routine construction and using Faro shuffles when doing card magic for people?

The trick is self working since you just do eight perfect faros and then count to the number...

yawn

I'm not quite to the eight perfect faros = self-working level yet ... and please don't call me Shirley. :-) :-) :-)

[El Mystico]

Shirley we have all heard that presentation can make a phone book recital entertaining. But what does that have to do with good practice in routine construction and using Faro shuffles when doing card magic for people?

The trick is self working since you just do eight perfect faros and then count to the number...

yawn

Now, that's a more intelligent area than "name a mutiple faro trick that can be made entertaining".

For me, the issue isn't 'does it contain multiple faro shuffles' the issue is - can I entertain with it.
Some people will do multiple double turnovers in a dull way. Others might do Paul Harris' Whack Your Pack.

But for me it is helpful to establish there is no rule that says "more than x faro shuffles and the trick won't entertain."
(Although I hope no one subjects me to a trick that uses 25 faro shuffles).

[Bill Mullins]

The trick is self working since you just do eight perfect faros and then count to the number...

But isn't simpler (and potentially less tedious) to do 3 or 4 false faro shuffles, than 8 perfect faro shuffles?

[Richard Kaufman]

It really depends entirely upon the person doing the entertaining. For example, someone who can keep up a running stream of jokes during the multiple perfect Faro Shuffles is going to be more successful than someone who just sits there shuffling while the spectators start looking at their watches!

[Harry Lorayne]

Best suggestion - if you need examples, etc., just don't do faros. I've published thousands of impromptu card effects/routines NOT USING A FARO, just for you.

[erdnasephile]

Some youtube clips would be an excellent reference so we can all see how to make repetitive faro shuffles interesting by using showmanship.

I seem to recall, Damien, that you once posted a video showing the less than optimal results of routines consisting of repetitive shuffles (although they weren't faros) ;)

[mrgoat]

Some youtube clips would be an excellent reference so we can all see how to make repetitive faro shuffles interesting by using showmanship.

I seem to recall, Damien, that you once posted a video showing the less than optimal results of routines consisting of repetitive shuffles (although they weren't faros) ;)

This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dypf1RtIzlA

or this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGWJIIOZI

:D

[Jonathan Townsend]

Okay, but would the trick be more entertaining if I used red backed bikes? How about if I used blue bikes and only six faros and one less joke?

But what if I added a joke about a red backed bike and then used the off beat to do those two faros? Would that make it more entertaining?