Ripped & Fryed - source?

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mrgoat
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby mrgoat » April 20th, 2012, 4:02 pm

Jeff Pierce Magic wrote:Richard, no one is disputing that perhaps Mr. Maze came up with his version in the early 70's but since it was never published we'll never know



Well we do know. Because RK has told us.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » April 20th, 2012, 4:21 pm

mrgoat wrote:
Jeff Pierce Magic wrote:Richard, no one is disputing that perhaps Mr. Maze came up with his version in the early 70's but since it was never published we'll never know



Well we do know. Because RK has told us.


Huh? Are you saying what I think you are saying?

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Pete McCabe » April 20th, 2012, 6:10 pm

Just to throw a little more oil on the fire, I think that the idea of doing Card Warp with a freely selected card or cards is lousy. I'd much rather see it done with a card that was specifically chosen to amplify some part of the presentation. Eugene Burger's wonderful routine would suffer if you used a freely selected card. Not just because you'd lose the idea of the Queen representing an innocent woman, but because the time spent having the card selected/forced is wasted and adds nothing to the impact of the effect.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 20th, 2012, 6:52 pm

Both scripted theater piece and in the moment with the audience approaches have merit. Consider Peter Samuelson's Invasion of the Body Snatchers and Tommy Wonder's Tamed Card... both are valid routines for Wildcard. Or we can play false dichotomy :) Given the response to the scholarly approach to exploring themes let's go with playtime here:

What does having the option to use a selected card have to do with a specific script (Burger, Giles...) which benefits from using a specific card for the trick? Some folks find the "master ace" line in the ace assembly trick an eye-roller.

Since you like oil in your fire... one could as well claim that anything but an all Native American cast for a production of Oklahoma would completely lose the layers of irony inherent in the script. Sure you could. But you don't, do you? ;)

As with the cannibal cards trick there are scripts for Card Warp that benefit from audience involvement especially when they are seeing the trick for repeat performances.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Pete McCabe » April 20th, 2012, 7:58 pm

Audience involvement is great. Audience involvement is fundamental. Audience involvement is magic. The version that gives you the least audience involvement is the one where the spectator chooses a card randomly. I think that's just about the minimum possible involvement you can generate. Even if the spectator just sits there watching, you can, with a good presentation well delivered, produce much more involvement than is generated by the spectator choosing a card randomly.

Physical involvement is only one kind of audience involvement.

That's what I think, anyway.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 20th, 2012, 8:04 pm

? randomly. The pack is spread face up.

sample scripting: For this next piece I need a victim... er volunteer. Would you kindly select the card you like least? We also need an innocent bystander. Any one you like. It won't get harmed... unlike that other one. Would you fold the card for me...

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Pete McCabe » April 21st, 2012, 3:08 am

I like the pack spread face up better than face down. At least the spectator can choose a card that means something, or at least you can interact with the spectator re: the choice.

But to most people I know, no card means anything too much. If you ask for their favorite card, most don't have one.

You are the one whose job it is to choose a card that means something.


The innocent bystander is savagely folded and in most version of the trick, rent in twain. No one is left unharmed.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Steve Bryant » April 21st, 2012, 2:27 pm

Darwin's Card Warp Deck is a deck of many different old beat-up cards. This allows you to spread the cards face down and to interact with the spectator re his choice. The spec is more likely to have a reason to pick a different ad or design than a value/suit. It also justifies tearing up the cards without destroying a normal, usable deck.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » April 23rd, 2012, 10:15 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:I missed that the Klayder thing kept the deck in the pocket. Then the two ideas are not even remotely related! And Rene Clement will back me up about Gene doing this in the early to mid 1970s.


Does everyone else agree that they are not remotely related? Then my question is what does introducing the card case do to further the deception? Isn't it the cards and their setup constitute the difference between the Maze and Ortiz ideas?

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 23rd, 2012, 10:58 am

Gene Maze's handling: upper half of the deck is normal; lower half consists of pre-torn cards. For a right-handed person, the torn edges are on the right. He used a well-worn deck for this, all backs the same.

Turns to a person and starts spreading the deck and asks for a card to be touched. The spreading is timed so a card from the upper half is touched--Maze outjogs it and continues spreading and the moment he reaches the center of the deck he asks for another card to be touched--this one will be one of those pre-torn since it's in the lower half. Again, he outjogs it, but the spread is not wide so the tear in the second outjogged card is concealed by the first outjogged card above it.

Long sides of the deck are squared without disturbing the outjogged cards. Right hand strips out the two outjogged cards, still slightly spread. Left hand places the deck aside.

That's Gene's handling. The entire lower half of the deck is pre-torn for Card Warp and the spectator chooses both cards and believes he sees the entire back of both cards.
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Ian Kendall » April 23rd, 2012, 11:00 am

Pete said, a while ago...
Just to throw a little more oil on the fire, I think that the idea of doing Card Warp with a freely selected card or cards is lousy

I would have to disagree with this, if only from personal experience. I start with two cards - taken from a bunch of spare cards in my pocket. The spectator chooses one card - a free choice - and then we go into it.

Being able to set up on the fly is a huge benefit, I think, because it makes the routine truely impromptu. Also, because they had a free choice, it rules out - in their minds, hopefully - that there was any preparation to the card; if there were, what would have happened should they choose the other card. Or something.

I've been doing Card Warp since 87, and since about 92 with this method. I really do not believe that my presentation has a huge gaping hole in it.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby mrgoat » April 23rd, 2012, 11:05 am

It's never crossed my tiny little mind that someone would think there was something funny with the card. I just peel off the top two cards of a deck and go into it.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » April 23rd, 2012, 11:29 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Gene Maze's handling: upper half of the deck is normal; lower half consists of pre-torn cards. For a right-handed person, the torn edges are on the right. He used a well-worn deck for this, all backs the same.

Turns to a person and starts spreading the deck and asks for a card to be touched. The spreading is timed so a card from the upper half is touched--Maze outjogs it and continues spreading and the moment he reaches the center of the deck he asks for another card to be touched--this one will be one of those pre-torn since it's in the lower half. Again, he outjogs it, but the spread is not wide so the tear in the second outjogged card is concealed by the first outjogged card above it.

Long sides of the deck are squared without disturbing the outjogged cards. Right hand strips out the two outjogged cards, still slightly spread. Left hand places the deck aside.

That's Gene's handling. The entire lower half of the deck is pre-torn for Card Warp and the spectator chooses both cards and believes he sees the entire back of both cards.


Richard from your description you agree that the actual case has nothing to do with Mazes work, since you don't mention it once, it's the setup of the cards?

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 23rd, 2012, 11:32 am

The card case has nothing to do with it. Why would it? The whole point of the idea is having a deck that is half pre-torn so the spectator (or spectators) can choose the two cards for the trick.
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Q. Kumber » April 23rd, 2012, 12:13 pm

I spoke with Charlie Frye about his routine at Blackpool. The correct title is "Warped and Fryed", as he uses the tearing a lady in half presentation as a follow on to Card Warp.

The TA people changed the title. They also made it difficult to follow the explanation. First Charlie Frye performs his version, then Wayne Houchin explains a different handling without first covering Mr Frye's handling.

As Mr Frye had recorded his full presentation along with explanation, it is a mystery that it wasn't used.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » April 23rd, 2012, 12:23 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:The card case has nothing to do with it. Why would it? The whole point of the idea is having a deck that is half pre-torn so the spectator (or spectators) can choose the two cards for the trick.


Thanks for the response Richard. So then Jim Klayders cardwarp idea is more than remotely related because the cards are half pre-torn and half not. So if he published his in 1978 that would make it the first published record.

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 23rd, 2012, 12:29 pm

Yes, that would make it the first published record, but of what? From what I can make out as described here, he's got the deck in his pocket and is simply bringing out two cards. Most people were keeping a dozen sets of cards in their pocket so they could just reach in and bring out one set. I guess Jim extended that idea by doing it with the whole deck and using the case as a holder, which is great if you're going to do strolling magic. But it has nothing to do with Maze's idea.
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 23rd, 2012, 12:29 pm

Jeff, the distinction folks are working with is between coming out with two cards to do a trick and working from a pack of cards - using selected cards for the trick.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » April 23rd, 2012, 12:33 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Yes, that would make it the first published record, but of what? From what I can make out as described here, he's got the deck in his pocket and is simply bringing out two cards. Most people were keeping a dozen sets of cards in their pocket so they could just reach in and bring out one set. I guess Jim extended that idea by doing it with the whole deck and using the case as a holder, which is great if you're going to do strolling magic. But it has nothing to do with Maze's idea.


Richard, it would make it the first record of a full deck setup of gaff and regular cards. Thats why it's called the cardwarp deck by Ortiz, its the setup. From that point on having a card selected is easy. It's the setup of the deck that counts.

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 23rd, 2012, 12:59 pm

I'm done discussing this. I've made my points and if you choose to misunderstand them that's fine.
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » April 23rd, 2012, 1:00 pm

I don't misunderstand at all, I just disagree.

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » June 22nd, 2012, 9:35 am

So while this thread definitely got off topic, I finished the book at it's off to the printers. Although not finished (no video) the website for the book is up and you can see some sample pages. There are over 400 illustrations to help guide the reader.

I'm very proud of this book and although there were a few routines I'd have liked to include, I think there's a good representation of effects and scripts in the book.

Check out the webpage at http://www.thecardwarptour.com

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2012, 12:34 pm

I hope the book doesn't use that blurred hard to read font.

(Also, on a technical note, is the 'site' designed to not get any search engine traffic? Because there is no text on the page, no alt tags, no seo at all...)

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » June 22nd, 2012, 4:09 pm

Why would I use a blurred, hard to read font in the book? Look at the sample pages, I think you will be able to read them.

Thanks for the SEO comment, I had forgotten about that.

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 22nd, 2012, 4:12 pm

I couldn't find the link to the sample pages--took me a minute or two of searching.
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » June 22nd, 2012, 4:30 pm

Thanks Richard, I'll make it more visable.

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2012, 6:58 pm

Jeff Pierce Magic wrote:Why would I use a blurred, hard to read font in the book?


No idea, why did you use one on your "website"

Jeff Pierce Magic wrote:Thanks for the SEO comment, I had forgotten about that.

Jeff


You need to use machine readable text, the file names for the images should be seo friendly (so cardwarpbook.jpg, not pic1.jpg, alt tags, title tags etc etc).

Really, you should throw away what you have, and start over using wordpress. Google likes frequently updated sites with relevant content. So do 10 posts, all relevent and jammed with keywords that someone searching about card warp might type in to find it...

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jim Riser » June 22nd, 2012, 8:00 pm

Jeff,
The drop shadow text on the above web page is difficult to read. Why did you make the whole thing a graphic? I could not get the samples to come up so I gave up trying. If you want to actually sell your book, this needs fixing.

The goat is right about your site being invisible to Google.

Let us know when you get things redone. Thanks.
Jim

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » June 22nd, 2012, 8:20 pm

Jim and Mr. Goat, I'll fix the drop shadow on Monday but I'm not sure why you could not download the PDF, I've not had a problem on three different platforms. Ive also some Seo techniques but there might be a problem because this web page is a redirect link.

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 22nd, 2012, 8:48 pm

I was able to download and view the pdf using Goat's suggested reader Foxit (excellent suggestion!).
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » June 22nd, 2012, 9:27 pm

Richard, are you on PC or Mac. I can't imagine having a problem downloading this file on a PC.

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 22nd, 2012, 10:06 pm

Me PC.
Sometimes me MAC, too.
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby mrgoat » June 23rd, 2012, 8:21 am

Doesn't download for me either. On a Mac, using safari.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Ian Kendall » June 23rd, 2012, 8:52 am

Chrome on a PC worked seamlessly...

<insert favourite MacBait here>

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Keith Raygor » June 23rd, 2012, 8:53 am

The sample pages opened up immediately for me on Mac using Safari. Crystal clear and well-done layout.
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby mrgoat » June 23rd, 2012, 12:12 pm

Ian Kendall wrote:Chrome on a PC worked seamlessly...

<insert favourite MacBait here>


It's not about Windows Vs Mac, it's about testing your website to make sure it works on all platforms.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » June 23rd, 2012, 1:01 pm

mrgoat wrote:
Ian Kendall wrote:Chrome on a PC worked seamlessly...

<insert favourite MacBait here>


It's not about Windows Vs Mac, it's about testing your website to make sure it works on all platforms.


But so far its only you and Richard that can't download the file and I think Richard was able too once he found the link. So that leaves only you so far who can't download it. Sounds like a problem on your end, not mine.

You were right about the Sep though so thanks.

Jeff

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 23rd, 2012, 1:27 pm

If Damian has no problems downloading or opening other pdf documents online, and he has plenty of computer and software experience, then I'd say that the problem may well be on your end, Jeff. It is in fact very difficult to make sure these sorts of things work across all platforms and types of software and browsers.
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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby mrgoat » June 23rd, 2012, 1:40 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:If Damian has no problems downloading or opening other pdf documents online, and he has plenty of computer and software experience, then I'd say that the problem may well be on your end, Jeff. It is in fact very difficult to make sure these sorts of things work across all platforms and types of software and browsers.


Indeed, which is why testing is so important.

It does work on Opera and Chrome, but not on Safari. For me.

It recognises it is a link, and goes to the PDF viewer screen within webkit, but no content loads.

Incidentally, the entire website doesn't work at all on an iPhone.

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Re: Ripped & Fryed - source?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » June 23rd, 2012, 1:43 pm

As it works on safari for others, perhaps a software upgrade is in order.

Jeff


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