Dad Stevens Cull

[Guest]

A must read for cheating at the game of Faro is "Faro Exposed" written in 1882. Almost the entire book is on cheating at the game of faro.

[Jeff Haas]

Another side note, here's an article that goes into detail about Faro. Includes the game, history, cheating, and why it was addictive. (It's on a website by The Centre for Addiction and Mental Health.)

Faro article

[Guest]

Bob Farmer wrote:
I'll be seeing DBen on Friday and I will suggest IN THE STRONGEST TERMS that he get this out ASAP.

Dustin Stinett wrote:
Two Canadian lawyers going toe to toe: This should be a hoot!
_____________________________________________

I'll put up a large cash prize if they'll do it in a ring filled with jello and I can sell the Pay-Per-View rights. No second dealing and no riffle shuffling by either man. ;)

[Bob Farmer]

Actually, it's not two but five Canadian lawyers. We are part of a panel discussion at Queen's law school (the Harvard of the great white north) on alternate legal careers. David is representing the magic business, I'm there with two others from the music business.

Since this is all happening in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, the location of the Royal Military Academy (the West Point of the great white north), which is Vernon's alma mater, we'll be going over there afterwards to light a candle or fire a cannon or whatever it is you do at a miltary academy.

[Guest]

Jeff, what a fantastic article! Many thanks for sharing it.

[Jeff Haas]

Glad you liked it.

After all, here we are talking about how to cheat at a game...we should really understand what the game was about!

[Guest]

How does the Fulves write up compare to the write-up in Revelations?

[Guest]

Fulves method is even more difficult than the Stevens and apparently he can do his version at speed. The guy must have bionic hands.

Elaborating on Doc's fine and honest post, I do believe that, with proper technique it is possible to cull three cards consecutively or at least within four shuffles. For those interested, one idea is to use the push through shuffle when a target card is absent from the sighted packet. Fulves, being the dreaded perfectionist, advocates strongly against this ruse. But for lesser mortals like myself, it serves the purpose well enough. I am not sure if David Ben would agree with this wrinkle or not, but its worth a try. As David suggests, there are in fact several strategies to try when faced with awkward distribution problems, which is why this cull is so compelling, refreshing and infuriating.

Regards,

Paul H

[Guest]

Theoretically, I see the value in using a push-through in the course of the shuffle sequence. But is it really necessary to move half of the deck when you're only searching for three cards? I don't think so; it's taking a sledgehammer to porcelain...it's culling that fourth ace...it is excessive.

[Guest]

If I may I would like to add some thoughts.

I would say that the Stevens cull is one of the more useful moves that I have learned in magic.

The problem with it is - say you want to cull three or four of a kind. If the deck is shuffled then the (lets say magician) has no idea where the aces are in the deck. They may be in the right hand half or left hand pile. Close to the center or the bottom of one - or both of the two piles of cards before the shuffle.

I peak that is spread the deck on the table like Persi Diaconis suggested in the classic book Revelations. A thumb fan or riffling the deck to get a peak works to. Knowing where the desired cards are before the shuffle in my opinion is an advantage.

I find culling has the same problem as the second deal as the second deal is almost worthless (at the card table not magic) unless the magician (or card sharp) knows what the top card is. This is why marked cards or a peak is used with the second.

Buddy Farnan years ago showed me how to deal blackjack using the peak and the second deal and I use it in a blackjack demonstration using the second deal and a peak. In the book Marlo in spades Marlo has a great black jack deal using the punch.

With culling with a jog shuffle I use a punch for demonstrations. And with the table cull (the Stevens cull and the Triumph cull) when I do a show I sometimes use sand work. I do not have a problem with that in formal shows because I like to stay a step ahead of the audience.

I use the Stevens cull and the triumph cull to cut the aces from a shuffled deck. It is my opinion that the audience doesn't want to see the magician shuffle the cards a lot taking more than four shuffle cuts to cut to four aces one at a time.

The aces or desired cards are easier to get under control if the magician or sharp knows where they are before the shuffle. A sharp may have an advantage with the cull if they use the knowledge from looking at the discards.

Others may not agree but that is OK with me.

Best ahead!

[Guest]

Doc is yanking your chains in the video. That's definitely not a cull. Knowing Doc, he'll probably tip it and tick off a lot of pro hustlers.

Joe

[Guest]

I agree the cards weren't visually culled. It looked to me as though the deck had edge work in it and the "culled cards" were placed next to key cards that could be located by feel. The tip-offs were the way the cards were placed in the deck and the way the cuts were made.

[Guest]

Bob Coyne you definitely just insulted me. I don't know your capabilities at the card table or as a magician but unless you're God how in the world can you see me my work? First off there is no work in my cards so what the hell were looking at? are you trying to impress some of these guys here? and for the record if there was work in my cards how in the world can you see it?

Technically speaking you sound like a lame. Any experienced hustler know for a fact that you can't see decent Belly work and you have to get close up on it to see it and then if the work is good you have to test the deck to be sure.

For verification of this fact I gave a Stripper deck that I made to Harry Lorayne to examine and to pull and upon examining them he said that my deck wasn't Strippers. I then proceeded to pull out 4 Aces, then the 4 Kings, then the 4 Queens, then the 4 Jacks and finally the 4 10's as I walked away. Doug Edwards was there when I did it.

Doc why did you walk away after doing this? Pay back. I have a brain like an elephant. In the late 80's when Sal P. and I used to practice in the back of Reuben's, we were trying to learn the memory system so we went to him for help and he shunned us telling us to pay him or just buy his book that was out at that time with him and Jerry Lucas; so I shunned him back.

Here's a pic of my work now tell this forum what marks you see on my deck? http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/c_N_c/ ... =1&m=s&o=0

This is a discussion between Mr. Lombard and I if anyone care to read it.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... &forum=188

Doc

[Guest]

Doc, no insult meant at all. You made no claims about your method, so I don't see why you would be offended. I was merely mentioning what it looked like to me, based on certain aspects of how the cards were handled. The placement of the cards into the deck involved some apparent adjustments to get them in the right position and the way the cuts were done made me think strippers. Of course, there's a certain amount of guesswork given the low quality/resolution of the video itself. But in anycase, I thought that using trimmed cards as key cards would have been a clever way to get that same sort of effect. So if anything it was meant to be complimentary!

btw, I've seen some of your other videos (deck switches, etc) and think highly of your skills.

I'll ignore *your* insulting comments on the theory that they're based on misinterpreting my intent.

[Guest]

I can find no mention of belly strippers in Bob's post yet you spend almost half of your post denying you used them.

[Guest]

Dben you say regarding the proper technique. Well I have all the literature on the move that's out except for what you have and after much practice from the late 80's to the early 90's I gave up on it because I never could obtain the speed whilet burning the deck.

As a matter of fact I practiced every card cheat move that I read about and mastered everyone of them except for the Steven's Control of which I do about evenly with everyone here.

I mean no disrespect Dave but as you know I'm a gamber not a magician and I don't need to practice a move that everyone believes to be the Steven's control when probably it's not.

Everyone here know for a fact that people exaggerate about magic tricks so why not Vernon? People lie about a lot of things and over a period of time/years forget the lie that they told and tell the truth. I believe Vernon's last testimony in the Revelations Series as the truth and if it is, ya'll are practicing a variant that will never work...expecially at the table.

Doc

[Guest]

Randy both is still edge work if you know about making belly strippers. Why? Because sanding or using a razor on a Bee Brand card is applied in both techniques...and ONLY BY AN UP CLOSE EXAMINATION by a player can it be determined therefore, without words he insulted my work and expertise by saying that I do garbage work (the making of marked cards/dust or strippers.

Bottom Line: This is why I spoke on the strippers instead of dust/edge work because he can see it from a video and don't have to be up close to know and this is impossible expecially with my work.

Ya'll may be experts in your field by I'm a Doctor in mine and since there is no known books on the subject Only A Player Who Use And Know All Of The Above Techniques can explain it and my picture of my strippers would fool any one including me if it was NOT EXAMINED.

Doc

[Guest]

Doc, I neither said nor implied that any work could be seen in the cards themselves. I have no doubt that your N-strippers, belly strippers, marked cards, whatever are top notch. You're reading too much into things. I only said the way the cards were *handled* suggested the use of trimmed cards as key cards in order to facilitate the culling of other cards. I thought it was a clever approach.

[Guest]

The fact is, whatever denials he makes, Doc wasn't using a riffle cull to get those cards. He's yanking your chains and treating you all like rank suckers.

[Guest]

Are you sure it's not you that's yanking chains Joe?

[Guest]

I Apologize

If a man openly insults another man he should be man enough to openly acknowledge that he was wrong and apologize in front of the people whom heard the slander.

Bob Coyne I openly apologize to you for making that comment and would you please forgive me. My alter ego/street scum of the earth side pops out now and then.

Why I was offended.

My previous post clarifies why I was offended. Note: I wrote and sent that post before I read Bob's last post.

To My Readers And Why Im Sorry

I'm sorry for showing the video but I mentioned why I did so "us blacks are never acknowledged for our achievements" but in doing so I unknowingly revealed the secret to the Steven's Cull/Control and I don't want ya'll thinking that ya'll came up with a new idea or answer so it is true, the kings were N-Strippers and Vernon could not have seen nor pull it upon examination just like Harry couldn't---The Two Genius' that I know of in the card world.

Note For My Previous Post: Don't get it twisted, me being shunned by Harry Lorayne doesn't change the fact of this man's over all ability. To me he's still a genius in his field and a human encyclopedia on magic tricks and still should be respected as such, but I feel at times that he needs an attitude adjustment Just Like Me. I deal with the scum of the earth so I have a reason...Harry will have to explain his.

Bob Coyne Wrote

"I was merely mentioning what it looked like to me, based on certain aspects of how the cards were handled. The placement of the cards into the deck involved some apparent adjustments to get them in the right position and the way the cuts were done made me think strippers. Of course, there's a certain amount of guesswork given the low quality/resolution of the video itself."

Bob you are right and wrong. Why? You are right that I was using strippers but you can't use belly strippers. Why? Because you can only pull one set of cards with a belly or tapered deck. Now when pulling with N-Strippers you can pull 5 sets of cards...the technique that I did a long time ago on Doug Edwards and Harry Loryane.

Bob Coyne

"But in anycase, I thought that using trimmed cards as key cards would have been a clever way to get that same sort of effect. So if anything it was meant to be complimentary!"
Thank you for the compliment and again I apologize for assuming. You know what happens when a person Assumes? They make an -----

How I Invented It

By studying a technique for poker and by accidentally using a skin deck for Georgia Skin (a big money game played by blacks) the two techniques automatically started working and this is how I came up with the Doc/Stevens Cull/Control. Note To Anyone Whos Interested: This clarifies two things for me, which sound logical. 1. Why Steven's was able to cull different cards (low cards) in a moments notice without looking at the deck and 2. the we just dont give out information like that for the asking. It is my opinion as a hustler that Steven's never told Vernon what he actually did and gave him sucker information like I was giving yall. We always do this especially to a person who don't hustle.

How Vernon (Probably) Invented It

Vernon being a genius of his time reconstructed what he saw and came up with his own version of it and showed the best guys of his time and this is why we have various methods of doing it by different well known magicians. Note: This is why no one since the story of Vernon was told could ever master it up to the speed of Dad Stevens without burning the deck.

My Concluding Notes

As I see it, from the story given by Vernon, ya'll came to your conclusion because ya'll think that we're gods of the card table and that we can do anything with them and we can't. This is why no one ever looked elsewhere because we took Vernons story as is without thinking about anything else, especially N-Strippers of which 99% of yall still know nothing about and will never know because there is no material out on this technique or handling.

Why Some Even Knowing Will Still Have Problems

Since most of you don't even know how to make or use (belly) strippers, you will definitely not know how to use N-strippers or how to handle this kind of work. Others will fidget around with their (belly/tapered) stripper deck and have problems doing the move because the deck will keep breaking at certain spots and you won't be able to riffle stack quickly enough because there will be a short card on top of your culled card (like a Svengali deck) and you will hesitate because of the separating of the two cards while placing the culled card on top of the stock.

Facts That Should Be Noted

Note 1: Dben, pulling N-Strippers is very, very hard and this is why I didn't post my other video pulling other cards because it would have looked sloppy; especially after two days of experience. Note 2: This technique will not work even though using N-Strippers if the wanted cards are located at the bottom or close to the bottom of the deck. Note 3: Just like a magician showing a layman a trick and using his own cardsStevens did the same thing and tricked Vernon bringing tears to his eyes and with the ability to steal cards from any deck and replace them in theirs, he can proceed to do the same feat with any deck of the same likeness.

Bob Coyne

btw, I've seen some of your other videos (deck switches, etc) and think highly of your skills.

Thanks again for your kind words.

I'll ignore *your* insulting comments on the theory that they're based on misinterpreting my intent.

Thank you because I did make an ass out of myself.


Respectfully,

Doc

[Guest]

Thanks Doc. It's very honorable of you to openly admit a mistake. And please keep posting here. Your expertise in this area is greatly respected and appreciated.

[Guest]

Congratulations Doc, you've solved the riddle. We can now all go on to explore other subjects.

[Harry Lorayne]

Just happened to see this thread. I have no idea how I got into it. And I sure don't recall EVER "shunning" anyone, or asking to be paid to teach someone at Reubens. Just the opposite, as most will tell you. Certainly Sal P. learned plenty from me - he hung over me for years, and does stuff he mostly learned from me - without credit, of course. So, I don't recall what Unknown is saying, and I think he's making a mistake. Anyway, uni portant - just my thoughts. Best - HARRY LORAYNE.

[Guest]

I can't understand why you don't remember Harry with your memory technique and all but it did happen around 1987. I also remember paying Doug about $50 to $75 to show me the Zarrow Shuffle because he did it so well. This is also when Gene Maze and Wesley James took me under their wing and I became their student.

Readers I regret nothing that happened back then but I did purchase Harry's book and I wanted help with it, when this incident happened. I also remember him appearing on one of them famous shows like the Johnny Carson Show or something like that.

I am going on record todate and saying that upon re-meeting Sal after about 14 years he told me that it was Harry Lorayne who really helped him when he started and I also heard the same thing from Darwin Ortiz upon meeting him in 2002 that it was Harry who helped him too; He also helped me through his book of which I later lost.

Respectfully,

Doc

[Guest]

As far as the Steven's Cull is concerned...Harry does this move very well. As I sat at my the table with Gene Maze and Wesley James I saw Harry from behind demonstrate this technique to some magicians of who I can't recall but I do believe that Doug E, Ken Krenzel and Russel T. Barnhart was three of the onlookers.

Note: From watching Harry from behind I knew that my technique was correct. This is a note for any of you who think I can't do the original Steven's Control.

For the record...As I saw it, every famous magician that I've seen always came to Harry for advice, criticism and to get their books published. Oh Meir Yedid and Bill Kalush (David Blain's manager I believe) were amongst the on lookers too.

Doc

[Guest]

Unknown wrote: "...especially N-Strippers of which 99% of yall still know nothing about and will never know because there is no material out on this technique or handling."

Thanks to guys like you, no doubt everyone will soon know about this great secret. Thanks Pal.

[Guest]

The feat that you are about to see that was done on Harry Lorayne sometime ago was done with N-Strippers. As far as I know this is the first time any footage have ever been shown on this work because of how hard it is to do.

The making of this move is not shown because it's a gambling technique that's used to beat cheats so to any on looker it looks just like a regular stripper deck so Joe don't get your panties in a bundle over this.

1. The first video is the N-Stripper technique.
2. The second video is the N-Stripper technique applied to the Doc/Steven's Cull/Control.
3. The third video is a cut that I made up to retain the decks order after watching Jeff Wessmiller's video of a hop that he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBFJCSKh03c

Doc

P.S. To Whom It May Concern. When a person makes up something he has the right to do whatever he wants with it and since I made up this control/technique I have the right to show it to whomever I want to. If you don't like it then don't look at it or you can make up your own or continue to perfect the Steven's Control but don't tell me what to do with mine.

[Guest]

"N" as in iNdex? Nick?

[Guest]

'n' as in negative.

Negative strippers appear on David Malek's "Cheating at Hold'Em" DVD, according to advertising blurbs I found.

I haven't seen the DVD so I can't say what sort of detail is given, and I have no personal knowledge of the use of n-strippers. I just wanted to post what little bit of info I found as a result of my search for an answer as to just what the heck this thread is all about...

[Richard Kaufman]

Doc, if you're referring to Harry Lorayne, he doesn't do the type of technical shuffle work required to perform the Stevens Control. But perhaps I've misread your post.

[Guest]

Hi everyone,
I dont post here much, but I have been following this thread and I thought I would add my two cents. Here is a link to a practical application I have been performing for many years.
http://www.stevedraun.org/aces/Portent%20Aces.wmv

Steve Draun

[Guest]

David Malek talks about N-Strippers briefly on his DVD, but DOESN"T tip them.

[Harry Lorayne]

Damn, Richie - you went and gave it away! HARRY LORAYNE.

[Guest]

Doc...you should really invest in a table... ;)

[Guest]

Mr. Kaufmann no disrespect to you but as Harry table shuffled the deck and spotted a key card, he let a couple of cards fall on top of it and then continued his shuffle until it was complete. He then pushed the two halves together and proceeded to break the deck at the spot where he dropped the little packet of cards on top and as he separated the two halves again to continue the next shuffle, the spotted card that he previous saw was now on the top of the deck. He proceeded to do this about two more times until all three was there.

Was it perfect, I can't say from seeing it from the back and was it very fast, I can't remember but he done it as I said and I knew I knew how to do it from that day forth.

Take Care

Doc

[Richard Kaufman]

Fascinating, Doc, I'll accept your word for it.

Harry's got some 'splaining to do!

[Guest]

John you are absolutely correct in what you've said but my problem is, is that I'm lazy and not a magician. My iMac G5 with the built in view cam for my convenience sits right next to my bed instead of my desk like it should and since the lighting is bad from that angle you would not have seen anything because of the height of my large screen and also, since I was too lazy to take out my old Titanium G4 power book ($3,000) with the iSight view cam ($150) and set it up, I thought it would be too much for me to transfer my flat screen iMac to my kitchen table just to do this under my highly lit chandelier, so I placed it on the floor and quickly done it.

Next time I will do it to your liking if my miniature Sony Digital Video Camcorder (that cost $1,700 from the movie Bad Boys II in 2002) insurance didn't expire on March 6th of this year. Being that I had to get it fixed because I wasn't going to re-new a $540 insurance for 2 yrs on an old camcorder. The next time you see me on the floor in a video put an H on your chest and HANDLE IT.

Doc

[Guest]

Mr. S. Draun that was an excellent footage on the ability to cut to the Aces. Us cheats use this technique with the entire deck in order to beat suckers out of their money by cutting to the high card.

Take Care and may the Lord Bless You and Your Family.

Doc

[Guest]

Well thanks for your interest. I did it with a pack of bicycles ($1.25 at Coscos) and I shuffled on a velour remnant that I found on sale at the fabric store ($0.85)

I was going to post an explanation movie but I sure nobody cares. Everybody knows the plot is Marlos Miracle Ace Cutting, but I replaced the estimation with Stevens Shuffles. Besides my L&L videos were released yesterday and there is an explanation recorded there. They will be available on my website in a few days.
You seem like a very nice cheat, so may God bless you and your victims.
Steve