If you could study under any 5 living Close-Up card magicians in the world, they'd be...?

[Mark.Lewis]

The thing I found so odd about Mystery School was that there were so many women there. Since 90% of magicians are male and at least 50% of the people at Mystery school were female that was proof in itself that things were a trifle unbalanced.

Which reminds me. I was highly amused to read old Wilfrid Jonson in one of his books snort about the silliness of thimble magic. He said, "I think there is nothing so ludicrous as to see a man performing tricks with thimbles. The thimble trick should be left to our women conjurers for whom it is eminently suitable" I laughed my head off when I read that especially the last sentence.

Somehow we have gotten from great living card magicians to dead great card magicians to NLP to John Scarne being boring to Mystery School to female magicians and then to thimble magic. I am pleased that I am here to guide you all in how to go off at a tangent.

[Richard Kaufman]

Mark, your comments about Mystery School are arrogant and absurd. It's certainly not a cult--just a bunch of people learning good magic from good teachers. Invoking a psychotic like Jim Jones and the suicides of almost 1000 people is idiotic and insulting.

Perhaps there are more girls and/or women at Mystery School because they feel comfortable in the environment, which is far less judgmental than the local magic club, where they might be the only females.

[Pete McCabe]

The thing I found so odd about Mystery School was that there were so many women there. Since 90% of magicians are male and at least 50% of the people at Mystery school were female that was proof in itself that things were a trifle unbalanced.

Is it proof that things are unbalanced at Mystery School or in the "normal" world of magic? You know, about 50% of people in the real world are female.

[Glenn Bishop]

Interesting comments about John Scarne. And here I go talking about my Dad and the early days around 1950 when he was performing in New York. From what my Dad told me about John Scarne was that he performed in some Night clubs with small stages also he did Banquets and privet party entertainer who did card tricks, poker and bridge deals one of the bridge deals he did blindfolded. He also did a thumb tie routine.

He also did the cups and balls with baby chicks and sometimes baby ducks.

My dad liked his act however his comment to me was that he was not a comedy entertainer. Just did his magic with a little bit of humor. The audience liked it.

It is to bad that no one recorded Scarne doing his act. We only get to see him in a short Castle film doing a gambling expo. In this film this is not a performance. Only Scarne doing moves with cards and a short cups and balls without loads put in there as a shell game kind of thing. To keep the trick in the context of the gambling expo. The clip is edited and has narration.

In my Dads own words Scarne was a good performer and a magician like Jay Marshall he said Jay was a great performer.

Scarne (Jay Knew him too as Jay told me.) Scarne and Jay Marshall were two very different kind of performers working two very different kinds of markets back in those days.

Two of the more interesting people on my list were Louis Zingone and Rolland Hamblin. Jay told me a few things about Louis including that he was a successful comedy entertainer doing magic and comedy on the vaudeville stage. And he also booked himself as a privet party (close up) entertainer for rich clients in New York. And he was great with cards - some of his work is in Expert card technique. Jay told me about a film he had of Louis that he had I never got around to Magic Inc. to see. Of Louis doing the center deal and some other card work that Jay had.

Rolland Hamblin was a great card man and from what my dad said about him he could do a great strike second - bold side steal before it was published a re-named the technical side steal. He invented Jailed card (so the story goes) and did close up card work behind the bar in VFW and club Halls. Along with a stand up show that featured a card sword with ten selected cards.

Rolland was one of my Dads teachers and from what my dad said about him was a stronger close up magician than a stage magician. His stage act was good but his close up work was great and ahead of its time.

Just a few more comments about the old days as I remember the times when my Dad and Jay Marshall would get together and I would sit there and listen to them talk for hours on end.

I miss those days.

[Mark.Lewis]

It wasn't my comments about the cult thing. It was a friend of mine who made the observation. I don't think it is a cult. I merely think it is a daft concept. I did think that Jeff McBride came across as quite charismatic so he would indeed make a good cult leader if he chose to do so. However I do not believe he IS a cult leader. I am merely stating that he is a daft concept leader. I can't be responsible for what a friend of mine said. I can only report that he said it. You mustn't shoot the messenger merely because he reported the message. Especially if the messenger is a sweet and reasonable person like myself.

I do agree with the McCabe person that things are unbalanced in the world of magic. I only have to go into my local magic shop and see all the unbalanced people there. I often think I am visiting a psychiatric ward when I see all the misfits who take up magic.

I suppose that women are less misfitted than everyone else. Except in Canada I suppose where I have noticed that the men are more like women and the women are more like men.

As for "the local magic club" I have never actually seen any magicians there male or female. I just see a lot of laymen who happen to know how the tricks are done. And that seems to be the general trend all over the world.

[Richard Kaufman]

Gene Maze, when he was still a boxer, saw Scarne do some stuff at a gym in New Jersey. He said Scarne was quite good. There is early film of Scarne, from the 40s I think, where he does the cups and balls, or three ball trick, behind the counter at a magic shop. It might be one of the Robert Benchley shorts (which the Warner Archive is about to release on DVD)--can't remember now, but there was no doubt about Scarne's skill. He can't be judged by the horrendous performance he gave, for example, on The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder late in life.

[Mark.Lewis]

I wonder if it was the Snyder show I saw on You Tube. I just can't rememember. He may well have been better in his younger days. I have seen many magicians deteriorate over time. I have seen Slydini when young and he was wonderful. I also saw him when he was old and he was dreadful. He was mumbling away and could hardly speak. The moves were as perfect as ever but that never counts with me. I don't care how technically skilled magicians are. That is supposed to be part of their job. I care how charismatic and entertaining they are. And their level of showmanship.

Maybe Scarne had it at one time. He didn't on that clip I saw.

I don't think I have ever got excited over half a dozen close up magicians in my entire life. There are a tiny few. I would emphasise the word "tiny"

[Glenn Bishop]

(Scarne) He can't be judged by the horrendous performance he gave, for example, on The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder late in life.

I remember watching a Tomorrow program that had Ricky Jay on it and I think David Copperfield. Scarne was a second guest spot segment the other two were the first two guests.

As I remember and I might be wrong he talked and did one card trick. This opened up a conversation about Scarne that I had with my Dad. I remember the conversation better than the TV program. My Dad said he was not a comedy magician but he did get humor using audience members doing card tricks and the cups and balls with baby chicks.

In some magic acts - sometimes the magician is just a strait man for the situation comedy (the act) that unfolds on the stage. And without the audience to act in the situation comedy the magic can come off as very bland and just a technical show of skill with little or no entertainment value.

I think Scarne also did a short segment in the movie the Sting. He does Scarne seconds in a clip just before the poker game. And I think that he does the deck switch at the end of the poker game segment.

Just a few more thoughts.

[Richard Kaufman]

Yes, they did use Scarne's hands for shots in The Sting.