Future Puzzle

Post topics about the clever and unique creations the from Japanese magic company.

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CraigMitchell
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Future Puzzle

Postby CraigMitchell » January 5th, 2016, 6:47 am

Just received my Future Puzzle - cardboard props which require plenty of self-assembly ... it just screams budget.

Having not followed the Tenyo developments closely since Crystal Cleaver days ..is this a new trend of theirs.

Very disappointing effect all round.

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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby I.M. Magician » January 5th, 2016, 7:55 am

Tenyo did a similar thing with their 4D Printer T-256 from 2014. I mentioned my disappointment about it being made of cardboard in another thread here on the forum.

I wouldn't call it a trend but perhaps Tenyo will continue to release cardboard items which need to be assembled in the future.

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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby ecw » January 5th, 2016, 10:48 am

While I didn't like the quality of 4D Printer very much, I was fine with Future Puzzle. It is supposed to be a box to a jigsaw puzzle. Jigsaw puzzle boxes are generally made out of cardboard.
Have you tried it on anyone? A number of people mentioned that they were not crazy about the trick at first but got some pretty good reactions when performing it.

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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 5th, 2016, 10:59 am

Tenyo puts out items that will please their customers (that's not us). Many of those customers no longer want large hunks of plastic, but prefer items made of more natural looking materials. Hence the cardboard box for Jigsaw Puzzle.

The trick itself is ingenious, and instead of taking a dump on it (Craig) you might try setting it up, and using the presentation in the instructions where you begin with a full deck so the spectator believes he has named or chosen any card of 52 and the puzzle in the box reveals only that card.

The method is ingenious, and the equal of any of Tenyo's best items.

I would suggest eliminating the second "move" which is very simple: just tilt the box forward--just enough so the pieces slide toward the outer side--and reach in to take the necessary piece, which comes right off the gimmick, rather than first knocking it off the gimmick into the box and then picking it up. This means the trick requires only one action when the lid is removed and you can dump out the pieces of a puzzle that will fit together to reveal any one of 12 freely-chosen court cards.

As far as the criticism of "4D Printer": it's an ENVELOPE. Envelopes are generally made of paper or cardboard. As Dai Vernon used to say, "Use your head."
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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby I.M. Magician » January 5th, 2016, 7:58 pm

Richard said:
As far as the criticism of "4D Printer": it's an ENVELOPE. Envelopes are generally made of paper or cardboard. As Dai Vernon used to say, "Use your head."

I understand that it serves as an envelope but it's design is not that of an ordinary envelope so it doesn't have to be made of paper to be convincing. If you showed it to someone and asked them what it was, I don't think you would hear envelope as a response. It looks nothing like an ordinary household item. Therefore, Vernon's quote doesn't apply in this case. For me, that envelope is the main prop of the trick and is kind of disposable because of the way it's made.

Let's not forget that it's the old plastic Tenyo that got most of us addicted in the first place. Now, must we ignore the substance and focus more on the effect? That's not always an easy thing to do but I guess we'll have to now that Tenyo is evolving. That being said, which new effect for 2016 is the most popular? The one which uses a plastic box?

I am curious as to how Tenyo knows what their buying public in Japan want. Does Tenyo conduct some kind of survey? How do they know these things? Further, what about all of the Tenyo lovers in Japan who also prefer those clever plastic props? Does their opinion count?

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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 5th, 2016, 9:08 pm

I.M. Magician wrote:... that got most of us addicted in the first place. Now, must we ignore the substance and focus more on the effect?...


The effect is that some folks enjoy these wonderful clever items. Whether or not the addiction is treatable... attempting to rebuild or repurpose the items for more native/organic use may help transition the fascination with items as provided into fine craft making items for context.

The 4D looks like a project to rebuild as a plastic window envelope that's been folded. No idea how well that would turn out. My best wishes to those who succeed with that project.
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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby CraigMitchell » January 6th, 2016, 11:53 am

Thanks for the presentation suggestion, Richard, will try it out.

"Tenyo puts out items that will please their customers (that's not us). Many of those customers no longer want large hunks of plastic, but prefer items made of more natural looking materials. Hence the cardboard box for Jigsaw Puzzle. "

How would you define Tenyo's core market ? Japanese hobbyists / laypeople ? What would be their key demographic ?

I can't possibly see a 'non-magician' picking this effect up off the shelf - going to all the trouble of assembling the cardboard box ( it seems like Tenyo couldn't afford to assemble it themselves - hence the 'budget' comment ) - and at all being able to perform this convincingly.

On a side note - is there any indication of how many units a popular Tenyo item sells in Japan ?

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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 6th, 2016, 12:14 pm

CraigMitchell wrote:...How would you define Tenyo's core market ? Japanese hobbyists / laypeople ? What would be their key demographic ?...


Per their mission statement here: http://tenyo-magic.blogspot.com/p/tenyo ... ocess.html
1-Anyone can easily perform it.


The box/sales presentation of the items also appears retail rack oriented which is not likely what you'd find in an exclusive club or shop only frequented by working pros looking for material. Try switching out a cigarette zigzag prop for one that is what it looks like and see how far you get.

Licensing Disney characters also puts the target market apart from magicians per-se. Take a good look at their product line and consider where you'd expect to find the items (never mind amazon.com or alibaba).
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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby CraigMitchell » January 7th, 2016, 6:14 am

Thanks Jonathan.

Having looked at their 5 'guidelines' on the website ... the effect already fails on points 1 and 4

1-Anyone can easily perform it.
2-It can be repeated.
3-It uses articles found around us.
4-The props can withstand examination by the audience.
5-The props can be carried around in one's pockets

"The basic point is that the magic of Tenyo is user oriented."

So by excluding magicians from their target market - we are ultimately left with lay-people / random retail shoppers with a passing interest. If Future Puzzle was directed to these users - they seem to fail here too.

Very interesting that they acknowledge that their best-selling products such as Dynamic Coins meet all the criteria 1-5 ...

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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 7th, 2016, 8:40 am

Magic has its own criteria that have to be met before fretting over manufacturing / industrial design concerns that include:
1) deceptive
2) reliable
3) robust under performing requirements
4) robust under performer's transport/setup/reset requirements

Let's add one for PC purposes:
5) robust under local cultural variations so's not to give unintended offense.

Gonna take a guess at a (6) for literature:
6) robust duplication of procedure as modeled into text.
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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 7th, 2016, 10:01 am

CraigMitchell wrote:Just received my Future Puzzle - cardboard props which require plenty of self-assembly ... it just screams budget. ...



Is the box okay to carry the pack inside? Two for a switch? Real questions.
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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 7th, 2016, 2:03 pm

The five points are a goal, one they do not always succeed in reaching by their own admission. Have you read the book, Craig? All of your questions would be answered.

Tenyo's main audience is Japanese laymen. We (magicians) are a tiny fraction of their sales. Even so, they try to develop new and interest effects for their lay audience every year.

The Japanese are very much a DIY group, so assembling the box for Future Jigsaw is a piece of cake. If you had trouble figuring it out, I don't know how to respond other than that you should be doing more with your hands.

It's a fabulous trick: why don't you practice it and then perform it a few times. Make sure you use the "starting with the full deck" handling.
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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby CraigMitchell » January 9th, 2016, 2:38 am

>Have you read the book, Craig? All of your questions would be answered.

Unfortunately Santa did not deliver Tenyoism this year ;-( Got to see it at Genii-Con ... an unbelievable masterpiece even for non-Tenyo buffs

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Re: Future Puzzle

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 9th, 2016, 4:22 am

Then I suggest you buy the book! :)
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