One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Chris Aguilar » January 23rd, 2015, 3:31 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Problem of the Curate's egg

Googled that and... interesting (and perhaps apropos) reference.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Robert Stacher » January 23rd, 2015, 3:38 pm

Dustin, exactly my point of view. There is so much great thinking, wisdom, excellent technique and routine construction in these DVDs that I could not care less about these 8 minutes. After all, this is 8 minutes of about 540, you have to be interested in that particular sequence and even then, it's possible to study it, albeit with more effort.

My opinion: don't waste your time with being annoyed but instead invest your time in watching the DVDs, learning from them and taking your magic to the next level.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 23rd, 2015, 3:48 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:problem of the Curate's egg

ONE bad element does not a Curate's egg make.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby PickaCard » January 23rd, 2015, 4:02 pm

Dustin,

As a reviewer, I am not sure if you were provided a set for free or not, but I believe your perspective is not very easy for me to swallow as with shipping and exchange rate it cost me close to $200 Canadian.

As this is not a limited edition book which would require some form of reprint, but only a digital product which could be burned on a DVD on a computer for $.50 and mailed out for a few dollars, I fail to see what takes 3 months to finalize. At the very least a digital file which streams on their website could have been offered (as they do with other products).

I am very surprised at everyone's patience, including my own. 3 months is a long time.

I have no info from D&D on the matter. No email to apologize. No information as to how they may correct the issue. No offer for a credit to their store. I get my info from the Genii Forum second hand. Just great.

I'm sure as time goes on more customers will forget about this issue, and thus the problem will go away for them.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Roger M. » January 23rd, 2015, 6:35 pm

Hollingworth himself and the customers who purchased this limited edition DVD set deserved a set containing NO authoring and/or pressing errors.

Excluding his updates for this D&D set, all of this Hollingworth material was already some of the finest in the world before it made it onto this DVD set, and most of the purchasers already knew and respected Hollingworth's material, many as a result of already owning all of it on VHS.

Certainly for customers of D&D and Hollingworth, it sure wouldn't hurt to spend a couple of hundred dollars for something and actually get what you paid for.

But the thinking that somehow Hollingworth's amazing skills and gentlemenly manner somehow make the D&D authoring errors "OK" is seriously misplaced thinking.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby AJM » January 23rd, 2015, 6:37 pm

[quote="PickaCard"
I'm sure as time goes on more customers will forget about this issue, and thus the problem will go away for them.[/quote]

I won't forget...
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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 23rd, 2015, 8:37 pm

Not if you keep banging your head against the wall like that!
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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 23rd, 2015, 9:33 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:One thing, at least from my point of view, is that I do not want about eight minutes of bad video and suspect customer service to take away from the rest of this incredible set and especially the astounding work of Guy Hollingworth.

I'm quoting myself because apparently people do not know how to read (or at least comprehend what I wrote). "[T]ake away from the rest of this incredible set" [new emphasis mine]means that what remains is still exceptional. I also do not want this to reflect poorly on Mr. Hollingworth. None of that means that D&D are excused in any way from making things right for their customers and the star of the set.

Anyone who thinks that the rest/remainder/balance of this set is not exceptional, that eight minutes of several hours of video destroys the value of what is left over, well that's just misplaced thinking. After all, if one of my Lenox china plates arrived cracked, while I would fully expect a replacement, I would still use—and value—the rest of the set.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Ted M » January 23rd, 2015, 10:40 pm

Dustin,

You may not want it to be the case, but folks who paid $150-$200 for a princely, premium, very special product described as "surpassing groundbreaking expectations" are still probably going to focus on the glaring flaw that reminds them -- every time they play the disc -- that the most basic, fundamental aspect of the product wasn't even checked before it went out the door.

Dan and Dave didn't even bother to watch their own disc before sending it to the factory.

And they're not talking to the chumps they got to buy the product.

That's pretty crushingly disappointing.

Having bypassed the buying experience with a free copy, you're not a participant in this psychological event, and you don't appear to be trying to understand it or sympathize with the people caught up in it.

For $150-200, people were offered the rare chance to buy a piece of sublime Perfection in a box. But it turned out to be fundamentally flawed in the most basic, earthly way. That's the psychological transaction here.

Please forgive those who paid for the product for their offense of not adopting the privileged viewpoint of someone who received a free copy.
Last edited by Ted M on January 24th, 2015, 5:12 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby benjamintalbot » January 23rd, 2015, 10:54 pm

it's not worth the money--why sweat the box when chocolates inside are so stale.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby benjamintalbot » January 23rd, 2015, 10:55 pm

the contents are old and "reflect poorly on Mr. Hollingworth"

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 24th, 2015, 12:27 am

At least Benjamin's argument makes sense: he doesn't like anything in the box, so none of it has any value to him.

And someone show me where I am not saying that D&D need, in some way, to make this right for those who paid quite dearly for the set. Please. So of course I understand and sympathize with them. It's not like I have never been screwed in a transaction before, so Ted, please save the psycho-babble.

But I also stand by my original review in which I write:
Sadly there is a serious sound issue here that made it past the check process. It is well out of sync. It happens during the explanation and lasts about eight minutes. I suspect that some of the opening comments are missing. Speculating or even questioning how this error could happen is not the pressing issue; it happened, so let's deal with it. The question that matters is; can the viewer lean the trick? In my opinion, which is based on real-time testing, the answer is yes. It took me two run-throughs to get there, but I did it. It’s a great trick and well worth the little bit of extra trouble.

And I also stand by my original belief—at the time—that this one glitch (that represents about one and a half percent of the total video time) should not have prevented someone from purchasing this set, though, again at the time, I did believe that the issue was somehow going to be addressed. It hasn't and that is troubling. But I still think that the other 98.5% is excellent.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby erdnasephile » January 24th, 2015, 9:17 am

The profound disappointment and ripped-off feelings are certainly understandable, as the high price of the set puts a lot of expectations on the execution and the contents of the set.

I paid full price, and I'm disappointed as well (although I'm not outraged, as I continue to find great value in the set despite the glitch, and I think they are going to eventually make this right).

However, I think casting aspersions on Dustin's character are not fair to him. IMHO, he does not deserve the anger and disdain.

I do note that D and D has a pretty generous (for magic) refund policy. Just curious: has anyone contacted them requesting a refund given the set is defective? If so, what was the response?
Last edited by erdnasephile on February 4th, 2015, 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 24th, 2015, 11:46 am

The audio glitch would definitely not prevent me from buying the set.

On the other hand, had I produced this set, a replacement disc would have been in the mail to purchasers months ago.
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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby AJM » January 29th, 2015, 4:16 pm

Just in, unprompted, from D&D Industries.

"We are very sorry for the delay getting the replacement discs out. For the time being, please see the link below for the complete footage of The Easy Way Home, without the audio sync errors currently present on Volume 1. As soon as the replacement discs are ready, you will receive one in the mail"

Sounds promising...
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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby erdnasephile » January 29th, 2015, 8:48 pm

I'm glad they're getting this done!

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Roger M. » January 29th, 2015, 9:37 pm

Just checked my D&D account, and there is no reference to any "replacement" disc made anywhere, and there is no "link" to any repaired online video.

There is no reference anywhere on their site to them being "sorry", or further noting what they're doing to make good to their customers who've purchased the Hollingsworth set.

D&D obviously have every customers email address, as your personal email address forms part of a customers account with D&D.

I have remained extremely polite in all interactions with D&D on this issue, and I've received no email with a similar message as the above.

I'm confused as to where you're getting this information from, how you're getting it, and (perhaps most importantly) why all purchasers of this DVD set aren't receiving it from D&D?

How difficult would it be to simply email complete replacement details to all Hollingworth customers and put this issue to rest for good?
It actually seems the most logical thing to do, and would end this lengthy and highly negative discussion.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby erdnasephile » January 30th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Roger M. wrote:I'm confused as to where you're getting this information from, how you're getting it, and (perhaps most importantly) why all purchasers of this DVD set aren't receiving it from D&D?


I received the same D & D email as AJM on the same day. I do not know the answer to your last question.

Did anyone else receive the email?
Last edited by erdnasephile on January 31st, 2015, 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Evan Shuster » January 30th, 2015, 11:00 pm

No email received, but I did send a note to them ensuring that I was still on the list for a replacement disc. I have always had good experiences dealing with them, and I imagine that this will all work out in the end.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Evan Shuster » January 31st, 2015, 3:10 pm

...and received a prompt response this morning, along with the download link to the corrected footage.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Randy Naviaux » February 3rd, 2015, 1:30 am

I emailed them about getting the link but still haven't gotten a reply.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Elliott_Terral » February 4th, 2015, 10:54 pm

I am speaking for both Dan and Dave in this post.

As you all know, there is an audio glitch during a segment of The London Collection. It was an unfortunate oversight on our part and anyone who has emailed us about it, has been promised a replacement disc. Although the replacement disc is still coming, we have since uploaded the correct segment to Vimeo.

Whoever owns The Hollingworth Collection is entitled to both the video clip on Vimeo, as well as a replacement disc. To get one, the other, or both, we need you to forward your order confirmation to contact@dananddave.com with your request. Without this request, our system is not able to automatically identify who ordered what, so this manual process of fulfilling replacement discs is the very most we can do with regards to the physical product.

Like has been stated before, we're working on finishing the replacement discs, but as has been our luck lately, printers of all kinds are behind on their deadlines. We take full responsibility for this unfortunate mistake, but please do not confuse public silence for apathy. With the current system we use, we cannot single-out all the people that ordered The Hollingworth Collection for an email blast, which is why we have tried to respond to direct contact instead. However, once the replacement discs are finally ready, we do intend to notify our customers.

So what do you do?

Forward your order confirmation to contact@dananddave.com and request a disc and the link. Please don't share the link amongst fellow magicians, not because we don't want it getting out, but because we would rather be able to speak with them directly to make note that they need a replacement disc.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me directly at jet@dananddave.com.

Cheers,
Elliott

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby erdnasephile » February 5th, 2015, 12:06 am

Thanks for the information, Mr. Terral!

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Bill Mullins » February 5th, 2015, 12:37 am

Elliott_Terral wrote:I am speaking for both Dan and Dave in this post. . . We take full responsibility for this unfortunate mistake, but please do not confuse public silence for apathy.


The glitch has been a subject of discussion on this forum for five months. If an email like this had come out four and a half months ago, with regular updates, you guys would look a whole lot better.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Elliott_Terral » February 5th, 2015, 9:42 am

Bill Mullins wrote:The glitch has been a subject of discussion on this forum for five months. If an email like this had come out four and a half months ago, with regular updates, you guys would look a whole lot better.


Hey Bill,

I only just became aware of this thread yesterday. Like I said, we've been quietly working to make amends since the problem was revealed to us. We aren't active on any of the forums, as there just isn't enough time in the day. "Saving face" isn't what we're trying to do now. We're trying to communicate that we are and have been working on solving the problem in the most effective manner possible to us.

If you know anyone personally that bought The Hollingworth Collection, feel free to let them know to email contact@dananddave.com with their order confirmation, so we can add them to the list for replacement discs.

Thanks!

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Ted M » February 5th, 2015, 10:35 am

If obtaining the replacement depends on retaining an old (and otherwise disposable) email for nearly half a year, shouldn't that have been posted prominently on Dan & Dave's own site five months ago?

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Elliott_Terral » February 5th, 2015, 10:47 am

Ted M wrote:If obtaining the replacement depends on retaining an old (and otherwise disposable) email for nearly half a year, shouldn't that have been posted prominently on Dan & Dave's own site five months ago?


You can also log into your store account, which shows all orders you've made. At minimum we need the Order #, so you should be able to email contact@dananddave.com with that # from the My Account section of the website.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Ted M » February 5th, 2015, 10:53 am

That makes more sense. Thanks.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Bill Mullins » February 5th, 2015, 3:29 pm

Elliott_Terral wrote: I only just became aware of this thread yesterday. Like I said, we've been quietly working to make amends since the problem was revealed to us. We aren't active on any of the forums, as there just isn't enough time in the day. "Saving face" isn't what we're trying to do now. We're trying to communicate that we are and have been working on solving the problem in the most effective manner possible to us.


First, kudos to you for the public announcement and the commitment to fix the problem. That goes a long way, even at this late date.

But my point wasn't so much that you should have been following this thread on this forum. It was that you (as a team) should have gotten out in front of the issue last fall, when it became widely known (Genii Forum, Magic Cafe, review in Genii magazine, etc.) Even if you (as a team) didn't see any of these mass-media discussions, many people who ordered the product have said publicly that they've emailed D&D, and for the most part, the reported responses were ambiguous enough that they didn't inspire confidence that you were dealing seriously with the issue. For example, a poster on the Magic Cafe on 14 Sept said that he had been told by you that the issue would be fixed within a month. By Halloween, that was obviously not true. Others said they emailed you and got no response at all. Richard Kaufman even spoke directly with Dave Buck and Guy Hollingworth, and he never got a real plan for a fix.

And to this date, the ad for the product on your web page doesn't mention that one of the discs is defective but that there will be a corrected one coming along Real Soon Now.

It's been over eleven years since the Buck Twins made the cover of Genii. During that time they've made for themselves a tremendous reputation as creators, publishers, and sellers of high-quality magic and accessories. In just five months they've managed to piss away an enormous amount of goodwill, and they will never get much of it back. And it was totally avoidable, if they had publicly said last fall "We screwed up. Here's what went wrong, here's how it went wrong, here's what we are doing to make it right. We are sorry." and then followed up with progress reports and actions. Customers deserve that, and when potential customers see that it doesn't happen, they never turn into customers.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Roger M. » February 5th, 2015, 9:05 pm

Although I appreciate communication from a D&D rep, I find the efforts to diminish what has actually taken place more than a bit disingenuous.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that D&D were unaware of this thread, and further find it difficult to believe that, after Dustin's review, D&D didn't visit the thread to find out what was being said online.

No time to spend of the forums?
There's a total of two forums worth visiting, one is Genii, and far below that is the Magic Cafe.
It's diffiucult (and quite unbelievable) to imagine nobody at D&D was aware of this thread until a day ago.

Further, putting the onus on the customer to ensure they receive their replacement disc seems a plodding and unimaginative bit of customer service.
If you run a magic "shopping" website, and can't tell what customer ordered what bit of kit (such that you could access email addresses of those who bought the Hollingsworth set), then you likely need a new internet shopping system.

Finally, the still nebulous timeline until a replacement is in hand seems to be yet another request that customers just "bear with us" as we work through all of our issues.
How about some fixed dates, and some firm indicatons as to what stage the replacement disc pressing is at, and what (specifically) has gone wrong in the past 5 months such that a replacement disc still hasn't been sent, and apparently (by your own words) still hasn't even been pressed.

I'm still not convinced you D&D folks truly understand what you're doing to your public image, but certainly it's yours to muck with ... I just want my replacement disc sent, and D&D to finally execute a finished product.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 5th, 2015, 9:25 pm

Dan and Dave knew about the error in the disc early on, because Dustin found it and told me. I emailed them immediately. Why this has taken so long I don't know.

Regarding putting the onus on the customer, that is always the case when replacing DVDs. With both the boxed sets of The Fugitive and the Batman TV show, multiple DVDs were defective, and in both cases the customer was responsible for alerting the company and providing proof of purchase. That's SOP these days.
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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Ted M » February 5th, 2015, 11:33 pm

With mass-market DVDs that are channeled through a distributor to many varied retail outlets, the publisher would have no clue how to contact the customers.

But I believe The Hollingworth Collection was sold exclusively by Dan & Dave. They should posses all the records necessary to contact every purchaser -- or just to mail the replacement disc straight out to the original mailing address, without burdening either side with the hassle of making contact.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Randy Naviaux » February 6th, 2015, 4:16 pm

I'm glad I checked this thread again so I can send a fifth email about this issue. (But to be clear I did not include a confirmation # with my previous four emails on the subject.)

Best,

Randy

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Randy Naviaux » February 12th, 2015, 11:49 am

I gotta admit that I am a bit stumped. I sent that last email last Friday and still haven't heard back from D&D. (Been checking spam folder as well just in case.)

(I've been using the sites "contact us" email form so it is possible that that isn't working correctly.)

How are people successfully contacting someone at D&D about this issue?

Best,

Randy Naviaux

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Robert Stacher » February 12th, 2015, 12:06 pm

I used the address

contact@dananddave.com

and promptly received a confirming mail from Syd Segal with the video link.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 12th, 2015, 12:07 pm

I contacted them and got a reply.
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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby mrgoat » February 12th, 2015, 12:42 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I contacted them and got a reply.


Did you sign it

Yes, THE [censored] RICHARD KAUFMAN, EDITOR, PUBLISHER, CURLY HAIRED SEX KITTEN

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Roger M. » February 12th, 2015, 3:10 pm

I too received a reply from Syd by sending a note to that email address.

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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 12th, 2015, 3:22 pm

Damian, why do you bother using words in your posts that you know are going to get censored?
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Re: One Man's View of The Hollingworth Collection

Postby erdnasephile » February 12th, 2015, 4:29 pm

Randy Naviaux wrote:I gotta admit that I am a bit stumped. I sent that last email last Friday and still haven't heard back from D&D. (Been checking spam folder as well just in case.)

(I've been using the sites "contact us" email form so it is possible that that isn't working correctly.)

How are people successfully contacting someone at D&D about this issue?

Best,

Randy Naviaux


D and D has been very responsive to my queries. Whenever I've emailed, I've gotten a reply within a couple of hours.


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