Deep Astonishment

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Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 3rd, 2002, 5:59 pm

John R. says:


What's interesting to me is that Mavens of Variant Ways didn't pick up on the potential and possibilities after reading the entry in THE ART OF ASTONISHMENT? The rudiments were there; the "carcass was ripe for the picking."
What makes you think, John, that we didn't. I put a lot of thought into it while waiting for the new version to arrive. I can up with several variants and at least one of them is, IMHO, superior to what I received. So now that Deep Astonishment has arrived, allow me to react to what I got.

My major gripe is the "wallet." What I got was a plastic check book cover. And that would have been okay if they had said that in the ad, but what bothers me is that it simply doesn't work! If I do the routine exactly as described in the instructions, when I open the "wallet" it automatically exposes the gaff! This is a result of the "give" of the plastic material. I think it may be easilly solved by opening the wallet out flat and putting some heavy books on it for a while, but the fact of the matter is that no matter how clever the thinking, what they sold me doesn't work.

There is a "handling" which solves this problem which I found out with one of my Mullica Wallets. But this is not mentioned in the instructions, and it starts to take the trick away from the "self-working" premise that the ads tout and Cliff and Manny have been extolling on this and other internet sites.

The fact is that the process of pulling the stack of cards out of the wallet isn't at all easy to do properly. As the instructions point out, if you do not keep the question mark card in alignment with the rest of the stack you expose something that is a big hint as to how it's done. And achieving this is far from automatic and easy. It will take practice to do it properly every time. So much for their claims that "anyone" can do it. Those not willing to practice will risk exposing it if they perform it.

I had hopes that Paul and company would have addressed two issues that bothered me about the Anything Deck. First, why in the world is the prediction made on the backs of playing cards, one letter at a time? For me this is highly illogical and a very big clue as to how it works. The suggested patter is: "Late last night I made a note to myself on some spare cards. I've been carrying them around with me all day, waiting for this very moment."

Sorry guys, but this is just straight descriptive patter and does nothing to address my concern. I do hope that some genius will think of something you can say that excuses this rather ridiculous format for a written prediction.

The second problem I have with the Anything Deck: what is your reason for pulling those cards, seemingly at random, out before getting to your "soul mate" card? Paul gave some sample patter lines in the Anything deck write up, along the lines of... this black seven tells me your card is not a seven, and so on. The problem is that with each new word you will be pulling out different cards and while you're concentrating on getting the right cards, you also have to think of these pseudo-logical things to say to justify the cards you're pulling. In the new Deep Astonishment instructions, he's opted for saying some pretty vague things like: "This card is definitely trying to tell me something!" or "I know I need this card!" One of the versions I had doped out made it possible to say the same exact four things every time. At least if you are dealing with four letter words. The patter can be consistent, thus memorized, and you don't need to think on your feet. Unfortunately, my guess as to how the new version was configured was wrong and that solution cannot work unless you'll willing to remake the entire deck.

One of the improvements I was hoping for was that the new version might be one that you could do surrounded. (For restaurant workers and strolling performers, this is pretty important.) Interestingly the new Deep Astonishment set up allows you to remove the necessary cards in a manner that can be done surrounded. But, alas, at the same time you're holding a fan of cards in your left hand in a necessary way, and anyone that sees the back of this fan will have a big part of the trick exposed to them. So, I can't see that the new method of taking the cards out is any improvement at all. If you're willing to do some memory work, there is a solution to this problem on their Web site. But, you'll have to remake the entire deck to take advantage of it.
In short, there are some brilliant concepts here, but I think they fell short of the mark in some ways... especially with the "Wallet" they supply.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 3rd, 2002, 8:23 pm

The wallet when shipped to us is packed flat open and is like any new vinyl or leather product, it must be used or "worked in" to become supple. By carrying it with you and practicing with it the wallet becomes softer, more flexible, and will perform as described in the instructions. I, and several other amateur and professional magicians, including Paul Harris, have been using these very props for the past few months in Beta testing and have never had a spectator question any aspect of the wallet. You might want to start breaking your wallet in by bending it back and forth all the way in both directions along the fold line. This will help the wallet lie flatter. I hope that this will help you with your concern.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 3rd, 2002, 8:37 pm

If I open the wallet and there's a big slit staring them in the face that they can look through right to the table or floor, I'm sure they're going to question it.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 3rd, 2002, 8:44 pm

Again if you work the wallet in as described in my last post no gap will be visible to your audience. If you do this and then go out and perform DA for your audiences I know all your concerns will be alleviated. Just ask all the magicians that are blowing audiences away with their closer, "Deep Astonishment"!

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 3rd, 2002, 9:06 pm

Rodney, I'm not trying to make trouble or to be overly critical. However, consider that John Blaze said, in an earlier post on this thread: "I don't believe the wallet is made right."

I've been playing with Deep Astonishment for the past several hours. I just don't see, with the wallet I have in front of me how breaking it in is going to solve the problem. Is it possible that there was a mistake in the production run and that in some cases the positioning of the opening was wrong on some of the wallets? I really want to go out and do this for some real people, although like others, I think I'll be doing some parts of the routine more like the Anything Deck. But I simply can't use the prop right now. I do have a Mullica "insert" from a KBM that I can use, but then I have to rip the other gaff from the plastic wallet and try to get it properly positioned in the leather Mullica insert.
Assuming that there may have been improperly made wallets, it might help you in tracing down the problem to know that I got mine by way of Hank Lee.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 3rd, 2002, 9:24 pm

Dennis please email me at yendors1@email.msn.com with your phone # or email address and I will contact you personally to see if you may have a wallet that was a "mistake in a production run".

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 3rd, 2002, 11:28 pm

I contacted Rodney, as per his request, and he is going to send a replacement wallet at his expense.
I appreciate his willingness to stand behind his product in this way.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 4th, 2002, 7:35 am

To joncards: Re: What you said about why magicians didn't jump on the original. Perhaps Harris is STILL ahead of his time. And now with a new version, the rest of us are catching up to him.
To the folks producing the effect: I stand by my original comments, but I must say its really nice to see a magic company who believes in what they're selling, and keeps people happy even after the sale.
To whom it may concern: Suppose one has come up with a much improved handling, as I have. I'm not too keen on publishing it online. will there be a book of ideas with this effect? Or perhaps a special Magicanna, with variations on this one theme? Joncards has pointed out that he has already received 10 variations, and you know there are more out there. In fact, settling down on the handling I have, meant discarding about five other workable versions!

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 11th, 2002, 12:13 pm

To John,
This is a perfect situation of a catch 22 in regards to crediting magical innovations. I believe in doing that, but we must also understand that if a performer wants to keep his creations to himself he has the right to do so. Publishing a concept you have makes it available to any others that wish to use it. But, if you don't publish it, then someone else may indeed publish it first. And whether they discovered it independently or they backtracked your idea from witnessing a performance or hearing about it from another person, they will still be first in print and magic historians give great weight to that when deciding who a concept really belongs to.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 11th, 2002, 12:27 pm

Over a week ago, I discussed at some length the "Wallet" I received with Deep Astonishment. I was astonished to find that it automatically exposes itself when used as instructed. I was very disappointed because this is a potentially very strong effect and various improvements have been made over the original version: "The Anything Deck."
I was willing to concede that I just got a bad wallet, and Rodney Whitlock promised to send me a new one. He mentioned a date certain of Friday, July 5 for that shipping to occur. He was ill for a couple of days, but contacted me again and promised to send it "early next week." He did not do so.
In this thread, and a similiar one on the Magic Cafe, it appears that I am not the only person to be very disappointed in the Wallet. First, it's not a wallet, but a cheap vinyl checkbook cover. Second, because of the flimsy quality of the material, when it's opened, it bends downward and reveals the gaff just at the crucial moment when you are removing the cards from the wallet. The instructions state that you should place the wallet opened, on the table. When I do that, the gaff remains in full view for all to see. If Rodney does make good on his promise to send a replacement, I'll certainly report in this Forum if it solves the problem.
If the trick could be supplied for $25.00 (The retail price) with a wallet that works, it would be a real bargain. Unfortunately, the version I have is not a bargain at any price because it simply cannot be used.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 11th, 2002, 6:24 pm

Perhaps you haven't read your emails Dennis. As I told you in my email to you yesterday, your replacement has shipped. The delay was due to food poisoning. I guess I'll have to take better care of myself to avoid any misunderstandings.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 11th, 2002, 6:39 pm

Rodney, that's simply not true. In your e-mail of yesterday you again promised a FUTURE shipment. Go back and read it. I would not twist your words in the forum. But I will quote them here if you continue to dispute this. In fact you have still not stated that it has been shipped. Your post does imply it, however. Since you never asked for a shipping address, how would you know where to ship it?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 11th, 2002, 6:56 pm

Dennis, please wait a week to see if the wallet arrives before making any further posts about whether Rodney is going to replace it as promised. As a publisher and dealer myself, it's understandable that the product may take a few days (or a week) longer to arrive than expected. I don't know anything about the wallet, or about Rodney, but give the guy the benefit of the doubt for a few more days.
If you think the wallet still doesn't work correctly, well ...
Frankly, I would be REALLY interested to hear what Paul Harris has to say about the wallet. Someone give him a shout and ask ...
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 11th, 2002, 6:59 pm

Dennis I just emailed you your mailing address. If this is incorect please email me back with the correct oone.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 11th, 2002, 8:09 pm

Hi Richard, and thanks for jumping in. I certainly agree that it's time to see. I too would like to get Paul's input. And, there is much I do like about the effect.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 12th, 2002, 12:48 am

In response to Richard Kaufmans concern re:
"Deep Astonishment" and the Nature of Vinyl

Hi guys. Boy, who would have thought that a little bit of vinyl could create such excitement.

The vinyl wallet was selected for "Deep Astonishment" because its a basic, ordinary type thing that does not draw attention to itself. Banks give them out for free to put your checks in. Businesses hand them out with calenders and day timers. My Mom uses one to keep her coupons in. It's the same reason one might use a penny or a nickle in an effect instead of a silver dollar. The more common an object the less attention it draws.

My first preference was a gaffed manila envelope. But I traded up to vinyl because it lasts longer.

This simple vinyl wallet is the very same wallet that some of my real world professional close up buddies use on purpose to perform "D.A.". I also have friends who have taken out the guts of the wallet to make a leather version. Of course some performers style and look require a leather wallet. There are also many young performers on a budget who don't have the option. So all things being unequal and with the full awarness that I'm not smart enough to make everyone happy I opted for vinyl.

About the ad: When I wrote the line that mentions "your wallet" I had Bannon's "Twisted Sisters" in mind. . .a great card effect that happens to come in an inexpensive vinyl wallet. Some of you read "your wallet" and assumed that this meant that you would recieve a Mullica style leather wallet, the hand marked deck and all the gaffs, for 25 bucks. This would be an economic miracle. It never occured to me that "your wallet" would be taken that way. But now I can see how it could, and I truly am sorry for causing that misconception. It certainly wasn't my intent.

At the time I was so enthralled with the ultimate power of "D.A." that to describe the specific materials used in the simple props just didn't come up on my radar. I wasn't trying to sell you a wallet. I was promoting what to me is the single most practical tool to zero out a co-human that I've ever encountered...and a little bit of vinyl happens to be one of the ingredients.

As for Dennis' wallet. Sounds like you may have gotten a bad one. I have personal knowledge that Rod had officially mailed you a new one. God willing you will receive it.. and this worldly pardise of vinyl and humans will once again be able to co-exist in peace, harmony and(if you follow the the simole instructions) deep astonishment.

Many happies to you and yours,

Paul and his magic Harris

p.s. I'm somewhat of a ludite (luddite?) and find great joy in being relatively unwebbed. So I'll let Rod and my other magic buddies reply to any other comments you might have about "D.A.".

pps..."D.A." went through an extraordinary amount of real world testing by a variety of different style performers before we locked in the final handling...one that's practical, convenient and bullet-proof for the largest number of magicians. There were no compromises made in the final effect. A few of the choices are non-intuitive...having been discovered by the audiences reactions and comments.

We also tested versions with double backers and blank faces. Some interesting things came out of this study.

In all three approaches (cover cards, blanks, double backers) there is zero heat on the deck. There is not the slightest thought that the cards in the wallet have anything to do with the deck. It's pretty amazing, but hundreds of performances prove this out. Spreading the face down deck or doing any other convincers to prove back color is an unappreciated effort. The back color of the deck does not come into the spectator's consiousness until after the magic word is revealed...and at that point there's a mental
"white-out" that makes it impossible to back track...or even to think about back tracking. At that point its all about the packet of cards and the wallet.

Another strike against the double back approach is that for most spectators, "the test" of a normal deck is to see all the faces. When the faces are not freely displayed a spectator's suspicion occasionally leads to the cards in
the wallet .

The final reveal is such a profoundly powerful moment that to put the magic word cards away before the spectator is done "resonating" steps on the moment of astonishment. And when you leave the word cards out, every now and then someone picks one up...because there's nothing else to do. If the cards were double backers or blank backs the method would be revealed...or you'd
have to hustle to protect the cards. The current handling of the cover cards leaves you clean, allows for spectator curiosity...and one less thing for you to worry about.

So there you have it. We're already getting some nifty touches from new "D.A." performers, which you can view at www.deepastonishment.com. And for the innovators, you might find it useful to perform the effect for real people as written and get to understand why the thing works (it's not as obvious as you might think) so you'll be able to make your own creative leaps from a firm base.

Okay. I think I'm done now.

O happy day,

P of H

_________________________________________________________________

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 12th, 2002, 3:33 am

I really wish he would stick around.

:(

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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Dave Shepherd » July 12th, 2002, 5:09 am

Okay, I just bought D.A. from Hank Lee. I have read the original version in AoA; I am dying to see what the buzz is about.

The "Tips" page on the www.deepastonishment.com website just piques my curiosity even more.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 12th, 2002, 6:38 am

This is the complete text of an e-mail I received from Cliff James on June 18th:
Denny,
Deep Astonishment will be available in both red and blue as the box color although you will actually have both colors in the trick. Problem with other types of cards is boxes and cost. There will be a pro addition come out later with a leather wallet and blank backed prediction cards. Deep Astonishment is available wholesale only through me. You can order either via e-mail or phone at 1-865-670-9089. We will be out of town for the next week to go and pick up Deep Astonishment so we can begin shipping 6/24. Tbanks for your interest.
Cliff James
The Art of Magic

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 12th, 2002, 7:12 am

Yes, we plan on offering a leather wallet down the road because we know there are those who want them. NO, a blank face version will not be part of the package. The blank was seen as a strong alternative up to the last minute but the compromises mentioned by Paul took it out of the running. On top of that the extra cost would have raised the retail price of the effect another 7 to ten dollars (over the current version). The questionable value of the blanks just wasn't worth it. Product developement is always a very dynamic process.

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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby timbrown » July 12th, 2002, 8:36 am

I read (with great interest) the comments regarding the vinyl wallet that is supplied with DA. I must admit that when I first received the packet I was somewhat disappointed with the way that the wallet opened. It was rather stiff and the gaffed section would buckle upward and snag on the side of the inside pocket. However, I soon realized that it was a matter of handling and that with practice I could successfully open the wallet, remove the cards and place the empty (and open) wallet onto the table.
Here is how I do it....I press upward with my right hand fingers against the cards as I open the wallet. At the same time I lower the wallet to the table while simultaneously sliding the cards to the left and removing them from the wallet with my left hand. I "press" the opened wallet to the table in the same motion. No problems...no one even thinks about the wallet.

Mostly they stare at their word, silently, with what can only be described as a "look of astonishment" on their faces. Everyone. Even my wife (my biggest critic...if I can astonish her I know that I have a good, good thing)

I love this effect. Thank you Paul Harris.

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 12th, 2002, 9:26 am

In my post of July 3, in this thread, I said:
There is a "handling" which solves this problem which I found out with one of my Mullica Wallets. But this is not mentioned in the instructions, and it starts to take the trick away from the "self-working" premise that the ads tout and Cliff and Manny have been extolling on this and other internet sites.
This is exactly what Tim describes so well in his last post. And coupled with a body turn to the left, you can prevent a view of the slot. Since this is the case, it needed to be addressed and explained in the instructions. However, with the wallet I have now, even if you do this handling, as it lies on the table, slowly the gap forms again and the slot is exposed.

Gary Freed
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Gary Freed » July 13th, 2002, 5:18 am

After receiving Deep Astonishment and seeing the writing on the blue backed cards,I immediately made up another deck with blank backed cards...Wow, what a difference!
Now the prediction cards are beautifully clear and have no resemblence at all to playing cards. I think I have also solved the wallet issue. I have gone back and tried the original ending from the Anything Deck and find that a much more natural handling for me..Everything fits into the card box, no reset at all and the reaction has been awesome!
Spending the $25 on DA was well worth it..Quite a bit of the new handling is useful, but more importantly,it got me to revisit an effect I loved the first time, but couldn't quite be happy with.. Love is better the second time around...

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Pete Biro
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Pete Biro » July 13th, 2002, 2:58 pm

Briefly: I don't like looking at the back of the jokers to see the cue sheet. I am on the road and left the deck home. Will fiddle out some handling ideas next week.
Stay tooned.

Gary Freed
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Gary Freed » July 13th, 2002, 4:53 pm

Pete,
Try the memory system in the directions..It took me less than half an hour to get the hang of and I can barely remember my Social Security number..Once you get the hang of it,it's much faster than the crib sheet!

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 13th, 2002, 6:38 pm

Gary, glad you like the memory system, but to keep from confusimg Pete, the mneumonic system is on the website not in the directions. The web address is www.deepastonishment.com

Tomas Blomberg
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Tomas Blomberg » July 15th, 2002, 1:14 am

I saw it mentioned that trials were made with Double Backers. As I have to make a new deck for myself with the letters , and I considered making a deck of Double Facers, so the packet appears to be face down (with an odd back showing instead of a question mark) when they are removed from the wallet. The letters seem to be written on the faces of those cards. Since it's a good thing to not show the next letter immediately a Rhumba Count will be a good way to only show one letter at the time. The Rhumba Count is also justified if they know that you only show one letter at the time for suspense.

I should mention that swedish magician Axel Rutstam has a self working handling of the Christ Force that works with Deep Astonishment and flashes many backs during the force. An added improvement is that during the force you can actually cull the word or part of it.

I've only done the original twice but the first phase fell really flat since I didn't have the speed. The reactions I got both times was "You are just seeing which card is missing." That's what it appeared like since I did not use mnemonics to speed the culling up. With the new deck I'll sacrifice re-set time and place the cards in two alphabetical sequences. That way I can cull most words with just one spreading through the deck.

I hope those that tries to use blank cards will share how it went. I'd appreciate any feedback from those that already tried it with Double Faced cards.

Thanks in advance,

/Tomas

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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Gary Freed » July 15th, 2002, 10:49 am

I use blank backed cards and I find the effect much stronger...There can be no connection in the audience's mind between the prediction cards and the deck!..

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 15th, 2002, 1:40 pm

Well...It's nice to see some more talk about this effect. First of all, let me apologize to those who've e mailed me. I have been very lax in my reply. Sorry Dennis, sorry Shawn. The thing is, at this time, I'm not interested in tipping most of my work on this effect. Not that it's SO wonderful, not at all. I just want to keep it to myself for now.
I will give away one thing here, only because it follows the chain of thought in this thread. Firstly, I agree with Gary about the blank backers. It really does take away any POSSIBLE heat from the deck, and even if there isn't any, its clearer for the audience.
I too have eliminated the wallet, and the question mark card, and the cue cards, but I still have the matter of a small reset.
I'm not quite sure what Tomas is talking about with his application of the Rhumba Count. But that is an avenue I explored: When taking out each card you need, simply SWIVEL out (hence, turn end for end), every other card. This way you are all set to do the Rhumba Count at the end to reveal the word. A bit flourishy perhaps, but now you can apparently show double sided blanks, or all jokers (if you're still using the opposite color deck). Or, all dulpicates of your force card! This may be overkill, but it will be good for the worriers. Personally, I don't use it, as I prefer a slow, fair deal out of the word. But you may like it!
I've been using my handling of the effect professionally. And I am very happy with the response.
I agree with Josh. I wish we'd hear more from Paul. Can't the persuasive Chief Genii persuade him to write for the number one magazine in magic? Paul, a mere six columns will take care of all of us for a year! I know you're reading this! You're not COMPLETELY unwebbed! Writing for Genii won't make you any less of a legend in our minds, or hearts. In fact, it will only make you a better writer.

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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » July 15th, 2002, 1:54 pm

Originally posted by John Blaze:
I agree with Josh. I wish we'd hear more from Paul. Can't the persuasive Chief Genii persuade him to write for the number one magazine in magic? Paul, a mere six columns will take care of all of us for a year! I know you're reading this! You're not COMPLETELY unwebbed! Writing for Genii won't make you any less of a legend in our minds, or hearts. In fact, it will only make you a better writer.
I've heard from good authority that Paul has two more releases in the pipeline...can't wait to see what they are!

-Jim

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 15th, 2002, 9:49 pm

A friendly warning. We have noted that some of you have chosen to use a blank backed deck presentation. We can tell you that several full time pros who originally opted for the blank back line have reconsidered and are now back to performing the effect as originally presented in the instructions. Their reasons for this reversal are as Paul previously outlined. When the letter cards are dealt onto the table one at a time your spectator(s) experience the optimum level of astonishment if you "remove yourself from the equation" by remaining silent as long as possible, leaving the letter cards on the table, and backing away a bit to allow the spectators to fully savor the moment that you have just unleashed. If you perform "DA" enough times (not really that many) someone will invariably reach for one or more of the letter cards to examine them. They will feel the letters, they will stare at their backs, and they will "turn the cards face up". With "DA" as it is marketed this is a fine thing. With blank back and double back cards this turn over divulges "gimmicked" cards. The only other option if you are using blank facers or double backers is to hover over the cards and scoop them up if any one reaches for them. This again tips the spectators that there must be something "fishy" about these cards. We simply want to warn you of some potential dangers in using these "special" decks.

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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Tomas Blomberg » July 16th, 2002, 12:34 am

Many thanks for the info Rodney. That reasoning will make me go with ordinary cards with odd backs. I also think that I'll get rid of the blank faced card with the question mark following that same reasoning.

Many thanks for your insight,

/Tomas

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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Rene Clement » July 16th, 2002, 6:51 am

I also made up a blank backed version and played with it. This seemed so obvious a solution I wondered why it wasn't originally marketed this way. Now I see why. The comments here seem right about the spectator touching these blank backed cards. I felt concerned about the spectator picking up the original red backed cards as well. They will see the faces of the cards I pulled out earlier to mentally help me locate their card. But I think I now agree that it would not be so bad to have the spectator turn over the red backed cards as the disaster that would be if they turned over the blank ones.

Unless their attention seems to focus on "why this joker feels so thick" that their concern of the faces on the cards is secondary. :D

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 16th, 2002, 4:30 pm

What follows is the complete text of an e-mail I sent to Rodney a few moments ago:
Hello Rodney,
The replacement wallet for Deep Astonishment arrived today. It is exactly as I suspected. The slot in the first one I got is much too close to the center or fold of the wallet. It is, in fact, exactly the width of the slot closer to the fold. The new one works properly. I've taken a picture of the two wallets side by side to document the difference and will now ship the original back to you so you can see the difference.
The first thing I will do after sending this e-mail to you is to go onto the Genii Forum and the Magic Cafe and post a message to this effect.
I assume that you use some sort of a jig or template for cutting the slot, and that it was somehow positioned improperly when the first wallet was made. I know you'll let your workers know about this, but perhaps whoever packs the trick into the envelope can do a visual check of the slot position as a quality control.
Finally, I would prefer not to cut up the new wallet to get the magnets for my leather pocket secretary. Will you sell me just a set of the magnets? Let me know the price and I can put it on a credit card, I can pay thru Pay Pal, or I can send the money through the U.S. mail... whichever you wish.

Dennis Loomis, Magician
Phone 925-586-4447
Web Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~deloomis

For those of you that have Deep Astonishment, the slot should be 13/16" from the center fold of the wallet. In the first one I had, it was only 1/2" from the center, and that 5/16" created all of the problems.

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Richard Kaufman
Posts: 23864
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 16th, 2002, 4:38 pm

On the first anniversary of the Forum I think this thread attests to exactly what a great medium this is. All problems addressed, all questions answered, bad products replaced and, wonder of wonders, Paul Harris spoke to us.
My oh my what a wonderful day :)
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 16th, 2002, 7:57 pm

A few comments to some of our friends:

1.Rene: We have suggested on our web site that you not fan the "magic word" cards as you hold them in your hand. If you hold them as a packet with the last card drawn being the only card visible to your audience, they will not remember the values and suits of the cards you have drawn. In hundreds of performances of "D.A." for both laymen and magicians I have never had anyone recognize that the cards in the wallet are the same cards that I drew earlier. As far as the thick shim card is concerned, suprisingly no one ever reaches for it or the other quotation mark card. They reach for the letter cards that are so personal to them because they are the spectator's "magic word".

2. Dennis: I'm glad that every thing is resolved. I will email you in reply to your question concerning the magnets.

3. Richard: Happy Birthday & Thanks!

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 16th, 2002, 8:00 pm

Sorry Richard. Happy Anniversary!

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Angelo Carbone
Posts: 202
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Angelo Carbone » July 16th, 2002, 9:56 pm

My slot is half an inch from the hinge too :(

Guest

Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Guest » July 16th, 2002, 11:26 pm

We are currently looking for any tips that you are willing to share concerning "Deep Astonishment". These can include, but are not limited to, tips on presentation, handling, and props. You can submit your tips to us by visiting our web site at www.deepastonishment.com and clicking on "SUBMIT TIPS". Any tips selected for publication on the web site will be fully credited to the individual or, in the case of duplicate submissions, individuals who have been willing to share there thoughts with other "Deep Astonishment" performers. We would also appreciate any stories of experiences you have had with your audiences when you perform "Deep Astonishment". How did they react? What did they say? Did they try to offer any explanation of what they had just seen? We feel that this type of sharing will help all of us get the most bang for our buck. Many thanks in advance for your help!

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Ben Harris
Posts: 153
Joined: March 23rd, 2008, 3:09 am
Location: Australia
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Re: Deep Astonishment

Postby Ben Harris » July 20th, 2002, 7:45 pm

Hey Jim,

There are THREE new PH effects to come this year. All are excellent. One is SO STRONG it's going re-define the moment of astonishment.

Anyway, the "Secrecy Oath" kicks in now. So no more can be said.

Cheers

BH
Creator of the famous "Floating Match On Card" illusion.
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