The Genii Forum

I realize most will have already seen this, but he was just so funny and great to watch, that I don't regret posting this link at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrPgJrU6y-Y

He is sorely missed. :(

I wonder how L and L feels about this...I don't know if they've authorized it, but I do know that the big reason I spent the money on the discs, when they first came out, was to see the material from the books performed....I think it is a well-meaning gesture that may be harmful to their business...and it is copyrighted material.

N.

I am hastily logging on to mention a couple of things.

One: Mr. Marsh, of course you are right.

Two: I wanted to be sure everyone knew that it wasn't I who was posting L & L's copy-written material willy-nilly, but that I stumbled upon this clip when I was browsing around YouTube.

I have no idea who originally put it up on YouTube, but when I found it I thought other folks on this Forum would enjoy seeing it again.

It was certainly a "well-meaning gesture" on my part--that is certainly how I intended it.

But now that I have appologized for my part in destroying the L & L empire, I must ask:
Is it really true that people being exposed to their product might hurt their business?

I thought any publicity is good publicity. For example, I happen to have neither the Wonder books nor dvds. BUT having seen him on various random clips such as the one I forwarded has actually sold me on making those purchases. So it hasn't ALL been in vain for nuthin'...

Whether or not the unauthorized posting of a video clip helps the rights owner sell more stuff or not isn't the issue.

Copyright law codifies the rights afforded the owner of intellectual property. It is the rights owner who has the legal (and ethical and moral) right to decide how his property is copied, no one else -- good intentions or not.

If anyone is interested in whether or not posting the clip on Youtube is okay, I'd suggest they ask Louis directly.

John

Mr. LeBlanc, of course you are right.

I now deeply regret forwarding the above clip.

I am BITTERLY sorry that my unassuming attempt at diversion made the Falanga children go hungry from 1/22-1/27.

P.S. If I stumble onto another clip that may or may not be unauthorized, should I tear my eyes out one by one?

P.P.S. Sorry if the above is a tad too sarcastic for you.

For what it's worth, I have seen that clip posted on websites selling the DVDs. That doesn't make the posting "right", but I don't think it's going to knock the Earth off its axis, either.

Dave, if Louis sells another DVD because of you, you need to ask for a marketing fee. ;) I haven't watched my DVDs in a while. Thanks for the link.

In addition to this clip, there are also clips of the Tamed Cards, Cups and Balls and Bird Cage...

Castaway, take a deep breath mate, no one is digging into you for linking to these

N.

See now.... the damage has already been done. The clip is out there. Do we condone it? Of course not. Can we do anything to stop it? Not a chance. This is the Internet and YouTube... get used to it.

Having said that, this is a short clip, not the entire DVD. And it is certainly of interest to anyone on this board. Whilst obviously no one here would post this stuff, do we want to discourage people from linking to such interesting material?

I wasn't even aware that there WAS a set of DVDs to accompany the books. Now I know I will be searching them out and buying them. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Those clips will create more sales than they destroy.

And don't just quote copyright law back to me...puleeez! I get it!

Bob

It's YouTube and you can't do anything about it? Nonsense. Most networks have now forced youtube to pull content. And youtube happily do it.

However in this instance L&L would be fools to persue this.

How is it damaging? You think that someone that watches this is a lost sale? As this thread has proven, quite the opposite is true and this clip had directly led to sales.

What I meant by "cannot do anything about it" is that even if someone should try to get content pulled, there is nothing to stop someone else putting up the same content, for the same process to be repeated ad infinitum. If someone wants to get something out there, they WILL do it and there IS nothing you can do about it

The point I was trying to make, of course, was exactly yours. Posting such clips can do nothing but good for sales of the original material, regardless of the dubious legality of the posting

Bob

It's no small wonder why technologies like DRM (Digital Rights Management) are being deployed.

I completely understand that this is a case where it seems like the posting of copyright material was completely harmless, in fact, it might help the seller.

Unfortunately, it sets a bad precedent. Ripping a DVD and posting some portion of it on the internet is not only illegal...what if it was uploaded elsewhere than YouTube?

Right now, writing this post, it took me about five minutes to find full versions of all the Visions of Wonder DVDs available for download. (Take your pick of pirating programs) Were they the same person as the YouTube fellow? Or did the YouTube clip come from a ripped version? They probably have nothing to do with each other, but unfortunately the principles involved are similar.

This is the reality of the magic community. As much as I love the idea of being able to watch clips of folks performing on YouTube, I don't think we have a right to trivialize what is legally just as 'wrong' as making the entire DVD available.

Now, if L&L would like to put a short performance clip from everyone of their DVDs on YouTube, I think it would be a great marketing tool and a fun thing. It's up to them though!

castawaydave wrote:
P.P.S. Sorry if the above is a tad too sarcastic for you.

I didn't take it as sarcastic; I took it as childish and willfully ignorant.

This is not about what you can or should do, to quote Vinnie Terranova, "This is about the law, man."

Just because a speed sign says the limit is 70MPH, that doesn't stop people from exceeding the limit. Police may or may not enforce the law; but that doesn't change the law. The penalty for getting caught is the same.

As to video clips, I think it's pretty clear that Youtube and Google Video and lots of other viral marketing sites do a fantastic job of causing people to purchase music and movies and such as a result of being exposed to a video. Strategically, I think Viacom shot themselves in the foot when they sent their 900lb Gorilla Takedown Notice to Google. but that's just my opinion (and that of Fox, Disney, and lots of other rights owners who are not pressing for the same effect on Youtube.)

The point I attempted to make is it's still the rights owner who is the person to make the call whether it's okay to post a clip; not fanboys with good intentions. Just because much of the Internet world suffers from the "But I Want To..." disease doesn't change things. Conversely, smart owners don't pitch a fit until they have to.

As usual, in the event you ever produce intellectual property of any financial value, you'll likely change your tune. Max wrote a column for Stan years ago that touched on the differences between amateurs and professionals. I think that applies here as well.

Your turn to be snarky.

John

No snark from me!

Unfortunately the whole ballgame has changed with the internet, You Tube, music downloads, etc. Sadly, once you do it it is out there for all that can find it.

I wonder? Does it really matter? All the perpetrators seem to think it doesn't... kids nowadays are getting test results on their phones in class... and little is being done to stop/punish anyone.

By the way, none of my ignorance is WILLFUL, just the regular, old-fashioned kind.

--And ME (of all people) ever producing intellectual property of any financial value?! HA! I'm a fricking moron!

Interesting story on DRM here