Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Does Lorayne's brilliant "4X4 Magic Square Breakthrough??" in the April issue outdo Chuck Hickock's "Diagonal Magic Square" effect on Hickock's website? Hickock is charging $35 for his effect; Genii is just charging $5 for the whole April issue!! Any thoughts?
 Richard Kaufman
 Posts: 23461
 Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
 Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
 Location: Washington DC
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Harry was very generous in letting us have that for Genii!
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Chuck's diagonal magic square is very easy to learn and do. Knowing both Chuck's and Harry's methods, I have to say Chucks is significantly easier.

 Posts: 102
 Joined: February 2nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: Chicago
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
It isn't easy to compare these two Magic Squares. What you're getting with Chuck Hickock's product is not just the square, it's also the routine. Chuck has created a nice presentation piece out of the square, and if you're thinking about adding one, it's a good starting point.
Upon my first reading of Harry Lorayne's article (and I admit, my first "reading" was more of a "skim") I thought, "This is confusing." But when I sat down and actually studied the thing. it turns out to be pretty interesting, and very easy and straightforward.
Most square presentations rely on a memorized set of numbers that will always appear, with simple formulae for generating the remaining ones. Harry's new version generates the square for real, using the many features of a fininshed magic square as the building blocks. (I won't get into the working of itget the magazine as I've already told several of my friends to do.)
It also allows the spectator to name four numbers at random and place them into any row, column, or diagonal to begin the square. You then work the square out from there. This makes creating a birthday square that much quicker, or any other 4digit number with meaning.
However, there are no presentation ideas offered, which is as it should bethe magic square is a tool around which you can build something interesting.
I liked the article a great deal and have been practicing it for several days now. Thank you Richard for getting it and publishing it.
Fred Zimmerman
Upon my first reading of Harry Lorayne's article (and I admit, my first "reading" was more of a "skim") I thought, "This is confusing." But when I sat down and actually studied the thing. it turns out to be pretty interesting, and very easy and straightforward.
Most square presentations rely on a memorized set of numbers that will always appear, with simple formulae for generating the remaining ones. Harry's new version generates the square for real, using the many features of a fininshed magic square as the building blocks. (I won't get into the working of itget the magazine as I've already told several of my friends to do.)
It also allows the spectator to name four numbers at random and place them into any row, column, or diagonal to begin the square. You then work the square out from there. This makes creating a birthday square that much quicker, or any other 4digit number with meaning.
However, there are no presentation ideas offered, which is as it should bethe magic square is a tool around which you can build something interesting.
I liked the article a great deal and have been practicing it for several days now. Thank you Richard for getting it and publishing it.
Fred Zimmerman
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
I am stunned by the lack of response to this thread... Harry's "Breakthrough 4X4" gift to Genii is Awesome !! Thanks Harry !!
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
I was delighted to discover Harry's published method for the Magic Square and my method are DIFFERENT. It was very possible that Harry  on his own  stumbled on the same patterns I discover and published two years ago.
Both Harry's method and my method do the same thing. But, I believe my method (with my Learning Guide) is easier to learn...and easier to remember and use in the real world. It's currently used by many of the top mentalists I know.
One small point: There are a few combinations in Harry's Method (5,6,9 & 10 and 7,8 11 & 12) that do NOT add up to the "target number".
If you look at my site, you can see these combinations do add up to the "taget number" with my method:
http://www.chuckhickok.com./tools.html
Harry knows more about Magic Squares than anyone alive. He was very generous is publishing his method in Genii.
I will sell only 250 copies of my method. 180 copies have been sold already via word of mouth.
Chuck Hickok
Both Harry's method and my method do the same thing. But, I believe my method (with my Learning Guide) is easier to learn...and easier to remember and use in the real world. It's currently used by many of the top mentalists I know.
One small point: There are a few combinations in Harry's Method (5,6,9 & 10 and 7,8 11 & 12) that do NOT add up to the "target number".
If you look at my site, you can see these combinations do add up to the "taget number" with my method:
http://www.chuckhickok.com./tools.html
Harry knows more about Magic Squares than anyone alive. He was very generous is publishing his method in Genii.
I will sell only 250 copies of my method. 180 copies have been sold already via word of mouth.
Chuck Hickok
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Harry's method, as published in Genii, doesn't really break significantly new ground, though it does offer a very thorough view of how magic squares are constructed. Doing it Harry's way involves a great deal of adding and subtracting... none of it particularly onerous, but there's a lot, and many will find this challenging "under fire".
Chuck's earlier contribution (aside from an excellent routine) is not so much one of square construction; this, after all, is pretty much the same for any magic square. What he introduced was (1) the idea of letting the participant provide the first four numbers, rather than just a total; and (2) a vast simplification of the mathematics, reducing the work to something easily remembered and performed by just about everybody.
Anyone who has investigated both routines will agree that Chuck's is dramatically easier to remember and perform.
... Doug
Chuck's earlier contribution (aside from an excellent routine) is not so much one of square construction; this, after all, is pretty much the same for any magic square. What he introduced was (1) the idea of letting the participant provide the first four numbers, rather than just a total; and (2) a vast simplification of the mathematics, reducing the work to something easily remembered and performed by just about everybody.
Anyone who has investigated both routines will agree that Chuck's is dramatically easier to remember and perform.
... Doug
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Am I the only one who in 47 years has never seen the Magic Square performed? I'm not even sure what the effect is.
Jeff
Jeff
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Jeff:
Here ya go:
What is a Magic Square?
And by the way, when are you coming over to Cape Canaveral? The Mathieu Biche lecture was a long time ago!
Best,
Steve
Here ya go:
What is a Magic Square?
And by the way, when are you coming over to Cape Canaveral? The Mathieu Biche lecture was a long time ago!
Best,
Steve
 Richard Kaufman
 Posts: 23461
 Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
 Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
 Location: Washington DC
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Jeff, the simplest method, which makes a stupendous presentation for laymen, is in Harry's The Magic Book. If you do this on a napkin for people in a restaurant, or on a blackboard (or dry erase board) in front of a large group, either way you will KILL. The new version gives you a lot more choices.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Any thoughts?
Yes  Get them both!
I know Chuck and I kow Mr. Lorayne's work. Both very strong thinkers. Get both works and for $40 you'll have a pocket or stage size stunner...
reccomended
Mississippi Pete
Yes  Get them both!
I know Chuck and I kow Mr. Lorayne's work. Both very strong thinkers. Get both works and for $40 you'll have a pocket or stage size stunner...
reccomended
Mississippi Pete
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
I've always been interested in magic squares, but never bothered to put the time and effort to learn one. I recently bought Chuck's, and within fifteen minutes (I'm not kidding!) had it down cold.
His approach to teaching magic squares has been for me the most efficient way of learning how to generate one. The flexibility of Chuck's approach allows you to produce a series of magic squares that are all different, and the patterns learned will, with practice, allow you to construct the square in an almost haphazard manner which adds to the overall perceived complexity of the task at hand...
Definitely worth the price...
ajp
His approach to teaching magic squares has been for me the most efficient way of learning how to generate one. The flexibility of Chuck's approach allows you to produce a series of magic squares that are all different, and the patterns learned will, with practice, allow you to construct the square in an almost haphazard manner which adds to the overall perceived complexity of the task at hand...
Definitely worth the price...
ajp
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Opps...I said that
"One small point: There are a few combinations in Harry's Method (5,6,9 & 10 and 7,8 11 & 12) that do NOT add up to the target number."
I then claimed the numbers do add up to the target number with my Diagonal Magic Square. I had a brain cramp...they don't with my method either. My mistake.
Yet, I doubt a "layman" will ever notice this...unless you make the CLAIM that they do. In the last 10 years of performing, no one has ever pointed this out to me AFTER I showed all the combinations that DO add up to the target number.
Chuck Hickok
"One small point: There are a few combinations in Harry's Method (5,6,9 & 10 and 7,8 11 & 12) that do NOT add up to the target number."
I then claimed the numbers do add up to the target number with my Diagonal Magic Square. I had a brain cramp...they don't with my method either. My mistake.
Yet, I doubt a "layman" will ever notice this...unless you make the CLAIM that they do. In the last 10 years of performing, no one has ever pointed this out to me AFTER I showed all the combinations that DO add up to the target number.
Chuck Hickok
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Richard,Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Jeff, the simplest method, which makes a stupendous presentation for laymen, is in Harry's The Magic Book. If you do this on a napkin for people in a restaurant, or on a blackboard (or dry erase board) in front of a large group, either way you will KILL. The new version gives you a lot more choices.
I guess I'll have to take your word on it but I still don't get how this looks or comes across as magic.
Jeff Pierce
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Jeff posted:
If you want a magical version, look into Roy Johnson's Flash Square, or my own development of same, Flash Squared.
In all cases, though, we should remember that everything we do need not be "magic", but it should always be entertaining.
... Doug
It doesn't. It comes across as a powerful mental skill/ability, which is often the precursor to even more amazing things. This is why it is the favoured opener of many working mentalists.... I still don't get how this looks or comes across as magic.
If you want a magical version, look into Roy Johnson's Flash Square, or my own development of same, Flash Squared.
In all cases, though, we should remember that everything we do need not be "magic", but it should always be entertaining.
... Doug
 Steve Bryant
 Posts: 1795
 Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Favorite Magician: Ballantine
 Location: Bloomington IN
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Mike Rogers came up with a fantastic way to turn the Magic Square into magic. This is available on Joe Stevens' incredible Gemini resource at
http://www.stevensmagic.com/gemini/index.htm
Then click on Mike Rogers and then on his Numerology Hoax.
There is some great stuff on this Gemini site and especially in Mike Rogers' columns.
http://www.stevensmagic.com/gemini/index.htm
Then click on Mike Rogers and then on his Numerology Hoax.
There is some great stuff on this Gemini site and especially in Mike Rogers' columns.
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
This article was extremely informative and very well written. Great piece. Thanks.
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
I finally saw the magic square performed on Alain Nu's second special and was impressed with the speed that he filled in the grid.
I agree with Steve Bryant on the Mike Rogers presentation looking more magical than memory.
Jeff
I agree with Steve Bryant on the Mike Rogers presentation looking more magical than memory.
Jeff
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Craige Snader had a book out called "Mind Square."
It had a couple of viable routines in it, but I do not think it ever looked to me to be any more than what it actually was.
It had a couple of viable routines in it, but I do not think it ever looked to me to be any more than what it actually was.
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Using Doc Eason's money clip and the magic square in Harry's book, the magic square for any number can be done is less than 10 seconds! I carry my business cards in a minature carrying case. The clipped cards are in the case also. I use this as an encore to my close up act. I draw the square on the top half of the card, ask for any number between 1 and 100 and have the spectator write it on the bottom of the card and sign it It is then stated that I will try to break my record to finish the square in less than 10 seconds while the audience counts. I go through a rough time trying to get the numbers to add up and miss the 10 seconds by a second or two. Actually it can be done in 4 seconds.
For better or worse, this usually gets a greater applause and comments than the close up act. Particuarly when working for engineers and accountants!!!
Merl Hamen
For better or worse, this usually gets a greater applause and comments than the close up act. Particuarly when working for engineers and accountants!!!
Merl Hamen
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
I agree with Merl about its impact on laypersons, including professionals like engineers and accountants. It is on par with speed memorisation of a partial deck of cards.
By the way, I learnt how to do the Magic Square from AHEAD OF THE PACK, written by Lewis Jones and the lateJack Avis. Lewis Jones taught me how to do the square in as many seconds as it takes to write the numbers into the grid. It is covered under the topic, "Square Bashing". I used this as an opener for a Parlour Magic Competition that bagged me an award. I always open my mentalism show with the Magic Square.
Lewis also applies it to birthdates, which gives a strong reaction at closeup gigs. The birthday appears within the grid. Give it a go.
Cheers.
Enrico Varella
By the way, I learnt how to do the Magic Square from AHEAD OF THE PACK, written by Lewis Jones and the lateJack Avis. Lewis Jones taught me how to do the square in as many seconds as it takes to write the numbers into the grid. It is covered under the topic, "Square Bashing". I used this as an opener for a Parlour Magic Competition that bagged me an award. I always open my mentalism show with the Magic Square.
Lewis also applies it to birthdates, which gives a strong reaction at closeup gigs. The birthday appears within the grid. Give it a go.
Cheers.
Enrico Varella

 Posts: 1
 Joined: August 18th, 2011, 8:45 pm
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Hello group,
These 4x4 magic squares are intriguing to me, too.
I can't find anywhere on the web that teaches me to construct one to obtain a horazonal, vertical, and diagonal same number.
Could someone PLEASE tell me how to construct one using the numbers of the top row:
11 08 52 09
Thanks
I hope I hear back from one of you,
Desertmanforever
USA
These 4x4 magic squares are intriguing to me, too.
I can't find anywhere on the web that teaches me to construct one to obtain a horazonal, vertical, and diagonal same number.
Could someone PLEASE tell me how to construct one using the numbers of the top row:
11 08 52 09
Thanks
I hope I hear back from one of you,
Desertmanforever
USA
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
I am terrible with numbers and memory... so I have all the numbers written small on my fat marking pen, using it as a cue card.
No matter how poorly I do it, it always KILLS. Thanks to Harry Lorayne's published work.
No matter how poorly I do it, it always KILLS. Thanks to Harry Lorayne's published work.
Stay tooned.

 Posts: 621
 Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: VillesvilleontheChesapeake
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Peat's absolutely right: many need not look further than Harry. BUT, if you really want get into a web source, check out: grogono.com

 Posts: 2318
 Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: Edinburgh
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Read the first page of this thread, and you will get your answer.
Ian Kendall Close up magician in Edinburgh and Scotland

 Posts: 983
 Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: NY
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Just saw this thread. Wasn't available back in 2005, but now, on YouTube, if you know how to do it, you can find a video of me doing my Magic Square for a lay audience. You might be interesed in seeing that audience reaction. HL.
 Bob Cunningham
 Posts: 362
 Joined: May 25th, 2008, 4:11 pm
 Location: Texas
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Harry Lorayne wrote: Just saw this thread. Wasn't available back in 2005, but now, on YouTube, if you know how to do it, you can find a video of me doing my Magic Square for a lay audience. You might be interesed in seeing that audience reaction. HL.
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeaTzZO8jTU
Great stuff!

 Posts: 983
 Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: NY
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Thanks for putting that up, Bob. I have no idea how to do that.

 Posts: 983
 Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: NY
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Seems as if nobody really cares!

 Posts: 48
 Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: Scranton, Pa.
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Harry,
I remember the tremendous reaction you got from some of the greatest magical minds at a late 1980s Tannens Jubilee convention after performing your "Magic Square". Roy McIlwee, Scranton, Pa.
I remember the tremendous reaction you got from some of the greatest magical minds at a late 1980s Tannens Jubilee convention after performing your "Magic Square". Roy McIlwee, Scranton, Pa.

 Posts: 983
 Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: NY
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Thanks for remembering, Roy. I get the same reaction today. Bob was nice enough to put a Link to me performing it a few posts above, so people can judge for themselves. But, as I said above, seems as if nobody really cares.
 F.Amílcar
 Posts: 96
 Joined: December 30th, 2010, 2:24 pm
 Favorite Magician: J. N. Hofzinser
 Location: BarcelonaSpain
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
It's a joy of magic Mr. Lorayne.GREAT
Just a question: What book explain the method?
Sorry for my ignorance and best wishes from BarcelonaSpain.
FrancescAmlcar Riega i Bello.
Just a question: What book explain the method?
Sorry for my ignorance and best wishes from BarcelonaSpain.
FrancescAmlcar Riega i Bello.

 Posts: 983
 Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: NY
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
I believe the method is taught in my book, The Magic Book. I don't have it here at my country home, so not sure. But, it's out of print  good luck finding a copy.
 F.Amílcar
 Posts: 96
 Joined: December 30th, 2010, 2:24 pm
 Favorite Magician: J. N. Hofzinser
 Location: BarcelonaSpain
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Mr. Lorayne:
Thanks for your kindness. I try to find a friend that have the mentioned book and I will read with enthusiasm.
Thanks for the information and take care.
Good night from Barcelona.
F. Amlcar Riega i Bello.
Thanks for your kindness. I try to find a friend that have the mentioned book and I will read with enthusiasm.
Thanks for the information and take care.
Good night from Barcelona.
F. Amlcar Riega i Bello.
 Richard Kaufman
 Posts: 23461
 Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
 Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
 Location: Washington DC
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Copies here:
http://www.amazon.com/magicbookbeginn ... 0399119566
Here:
http://themagicwarehouse.com/BK8372/Mag ... rayne.html
Here:
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S3635
Here:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/themag ... 1003492284
And here:
http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/?nd=full&ke ... =froogle10
http://www.amazon.com/magicbookbeginn ... 0399119566
Here:
http://themagicwarehouse.com/BK8372/Mag ... rayne.html
Here:
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S3635
Here:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/themag ... 1003492284
And here:
http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/?nd=full&ke ... =froogle10
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

 Posts: 983
 Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
 Location: NY
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Great. Grab 'em while you can!
 F.Amílcar
 Posts: 96
 Joined: December 30th, 2010, 2:24 pm
 Favorite Magician: J. N. Hofzinser
 Location: BarcelonaSpain
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Dear friends in magic, Richard and Harry:
Thanks to both for your interest and info.
Best wishes from Barcelona as always for your kindness again.
Richard: Dnde est el Sr. ROCA?
Truly yours,
F. Amlcar Riega i Bello.
Thanks to both for your interest and info.
Best wishes from Barcelona as always for your kindness again.
Richard: Dnde est el Sr. ROCA?
Truly yours,
F. Amlcar Riega i Bello.
 F.Amílcar
 Posts: 96
 Joined: December 30th, 2010, 2:24 pm
 Favorite Magician: J. N. Hofzinser
 Location: BarcelonaSpain
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
Dear friend in magic Mr. Lorayne,
A close friend lend me the book that you mentioned, but I bought before in Penguin magic the book for myself.
Of course, is a book for beginners and that's what I am. How more read in magic more see that I know nothing.
Best regards,
F. Amlcar Riega i Bello.
A close friend lend me the book that you mentioned, but I bought before in Penguin magic the book for myself.
Of course, is a book for beginners and that's what I am. How more read in magic more see that I know nothing.
Best regards,
F. Amlcar Riega i Bello.
 Richard Kaufman
 Posts: 23461
 Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
 Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
 Location: Washington DC
 Contact:
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
I have found Sr. Roca! And now I meet him every day. :)
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
Re: Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??
F.Amlcar wrote:Of course, is a book for beginners and that's what I am. How more read in magic more see that I know nothing.
F. Amlcar Riega i Bello.
While it's true that the more one learns the more one realizes how little one knowns, saying that you are a beginner is truly an understatement.
On another subject, I'm aware of many talented magicians that have learnt magic whilst visiting Sr. Roca; especially the shuttle pass. :D