Most astonishing thing I've ever read in a magic magazine

[Dustin Stinett]

Since I started it, no one else should apologize.

Dustin

[Eoin O'hare]

A musical intermission

[Cugel]

A musical intermission

Thanks Eoin, that was excellent. What a brilliant and hilarious rebuttal to some of the lame (cliched) justifications in this thread.

(Plus she's a great vocal talent).

[PapaG]

A musical intermission

I'd never heard of her before. That was wonderful.

[Bill Duncan]

Bill,
I think the joke is funny because it has an unexpected and socially charged punchline. Nobody (in their right mind) thinks physical abuse of the fairer sex is funny. It's the unexpected twist.

I was really trying to find a parallel joke for comparison. With you I failed. I hope the joke didn't offend you. If it did, I do apologize to you as well. I was raised by wolves.

How did I miss the Ursula portion of this thread. I feel so . . . left out. Who is Ursula? Is this a female magician I missed? Does she do blue material?

Kent,
Not need to appologise. I missed the work 'abused' when reading the thread and missed the punchline. Yes, it's tasteless. And most of the women I work will would have laughed too. But I don't think it reads as funny as it could tell.

Despise RKs comments Ursula's repeat vanish and reproduction of a red silk, while removing articles of clothing to prove "it' ain't there" may be even more tasteless than your joke. But it's funny on a number of levels.

[Brad Jeffers]

As Harry Anderson once said, “Topless, schmopless: You’ve seen two you’ve seem’em both.”

Actually, the line is, If you've seen one, you've seen them both.

And Cintra Wilson's Ricky Jay comment was not a joke, merely an observation.

[Todd Karr]

Perhaps "breastidigitator" instead? In any event, Richard is correct: all these terms are frat-house level crude and not meant to enter into the polite magical lexicon.

[Richard Kaufman]

I like Dustin's interpretation better, because when you have seen two, you REALLY have seen them both. And as Albert Goshman used to say when performing the sponge balls, "One is bigger than the other. One is always bigger than the other."

[Fred Siegel]

Hi, everyone. I feel like this thread is winding down and since I started it I want to thank the participants. I especially want to thank Mr. Karr for his thoughtful response of last evening.

You know, the "censored" line is something I would have expected to overhear in the dealer room of a convention. I would probably have smirked and winced and then forgotten it. The thing is, it was published in Genii, which is the most important magic magazine in the USA if not the world. When I read it in that context I was delighted. I anticipated the fireworks that such a statement would obviously have to set off. I went to the forum from time to time to see the discussions that outrageous joke would inspire, but was amazed to see that no one seemed to even notice. (Instead, people this month were obsessed with Dai Vernon's drinking and visits to prostitutes.)

Well, I'm glad we had some conversation. I still think jokes like this one, even though they may be funny on some level, are also a little bit disturbing. I wish more people shared my opinion.

My one regret about this thread is that I suspect that some people on this forum have me pegged as some sort of humorless, uptight prude. I'm not--or at least I don't think I am.

Here is a link to "Fred's Dreams," part of a group blog I'm in. http://whenfallsthecoliseum.com/about/f ... ram-notes/

I hope some of you look at it and enjoy it. At the very least, I think it proves that I have the ability to laugh at myself.

Thanks.

[Fred Siegel]

Oh, and Eoin, I LOVE that musical intermission.

[Dustin Stinett]

As Harry Anderson once said, Topless, schmopless: Youve seen two youve seemem both.

Actually, the line is, If you've seen one, you've seen them both.

Hi Brad.

I want to thank you for making me dig out my old videotapes to find out if my memory had indeed failed me.

While the line might actually be what you say, if someone else were to actually say it, what Harry Anderson actually said on Bare Touch of Magic in 1980 was exactly what I wrote. I actually have the grainy old video to prove it.

As for your opinion about Ms. Wilsons comment on Ricky Jay: Whatever. You call it an observation. I read it to be a joke. (I wonder what Ms. Wilson would say in the remote chance that RJ asked her about it. I suspect something along the lines of, Oh, I was just joking. But thats just my opinion.)

Dustin
(Doesnt think Fred is a humorless uptight prude. Back on vacation, but now actually too tired to sleep.)

[Richard Kaufman]

Cintra Wilson is a woman who gets paid for writing snarky stuff, so I don't think the comment about Ricky Jay was at all a joke. It was just snarky: sarcastic and stupid. Who gives a crap if she would consider having sex with Ricky Jay or not? I don't, and only her readers, who enjoy reading her snarky and stupid remarks, are interested in stuff like that.

Dustin: leave this thread and enjoy your vacation.

Fred: I don't think you're a prude, and I'm glad you started the discussion. That's why this forum is here.

[Master Payne]

So to provide balance in the universe should the term MaDickian be used to define those all to pervasive male magi who don't rely on their good looks (cause they don't posses any) or talent but expect the self working fodder they just got off some E-bay Magic Shop to transform them into a man of mystery?

Or should it be Penisdigitator?

[Magic Newswire]

I think Harry Anderson provided that with his Wenii magazine spoof...

[Magic Newswire]

Given the nature of this conversation, I had to laugh when I came across this ad from the May 1984 issue of Genii:

[Jonathan Townsend]

Amuzing? The rabbit seems to think so.

[Larry Barnowsky]

Will it work with a rheostat for the dimlit or dimwit? :)

[Jonathan Townsend]

Is there a name for that condition?

[Terrence]

Fism flash?

[Kodiak]

Folks,

While the debate seems to be regarding whether or not the term "censored" is demeaning to women, I question the comments calling Ursala a talentless fool.
Let's be honest, has anyone of us gotten that much time and audience response out of a hankie vanish? Kudos to her creativity.

One last thought. At least this is probably not one the local carbon copy magi are going to try to steal... chuckle.

[Pete McCabe]

I think Ursula's presentation for the thumbtip hank vanish is outstanding. It's obviously for a very specific audience. But it's original, distinctive, and unforgettable, it's funny, it has a great setup and a great finish, and it achieved exactly what it set out to do. How many of your routines can you say that about?

[Richard Kaufman]

Ursula Martinez is a talentless fool. I could do exactly the same routine and stick the thumbtip up my ass--would you still call it entertaining? I wouldn't. I'd call it a butt plug.

[DrDanny]

Gee, I'd call it both, I think. Just as entertaining as Ms. Martinez's act, and for the same reason -- it's funny! Did she ever claim to be a v/magician? I suspect not.

I'll not hold my breath waiting for RK to follow up on this, but I'd certainly appreciate seeing it. At least once.

;-D

[Matthew Field]

Ursula Martinez is a talentless fool. I could do exactly the same routine and stick the thumbtip up my ass--would you still call it entertaining? I wouldn't. I'd call it a butt plug.

I'd call it shameless thievery, Marloesque in dimension. (Not your ass -- the act you'd do).

Your pal,
Matt Field

[Ray Eden]

I actually don't have a problem with Ursula's Thumbtip routine. But the way she handles it - before the final dump - with the hand-jabbing, finger-flicking is annoying as hell.

[Pete McCabe]

I could do exactly the same routine and stick the thumbtip up my ass--would you still call it entertaining?

I'm not at all sure what this is supposed to prove. I could do Martin Nash's "Ovation" act -- does that mean it's no good?

Besides, what I like about the act is not its executionher technique could definitely be improvedbut the concept and structure. The fact that you could copy her idea does not diminish it in any way.

Now, if you had come up with the idea first I would have thought it was a great idea. But I would still think it was a better idea for a female performer since there is a long tradition of women performing striptease acts and a very short one (watch it!) for men.

[Tom Stone]

Besides, what I like about the act is not its executionher technique could definitely be improvedbut the concept and structure. The fact that you could copy her idea does not diminish it in any way.

Now, if you had come up with the idea first I would have thought it was a great idea.

If we are talking about the paternity of the routine, it should be remembered that this routine has been performed by Lasse Flygare since the early 1980's. His ending is that the silk is found knotted around his genitals (well, not really, it is actually a pouch made out of the silk, covering the "package" ).

[Richard Kaufman]

I don't care for the routine: it's obvious, not clever.

I don't care for her execution: she's neither funny nor charming.

It's not entertaining, there is nothing unexpected about it, and to me it just seems dumb.

[Seuss]

Does anyone know of a video clip of the routine in question online? I feel like I am missing out.

[Richard Kaufman]

She purposely does an unending series of atrociously-handled vanishes with a handkerchief and a thumbtip. Then she inserts the thumbtip into her censored and pulls out the silk.

It makes magic look stupid; it makes her look stupid, and it's an insult to her genitalia.

[Seuss]

Holy! I was thinking it was just in her cleavage or something but...

wow. just wow.

Way to (not) elevate an art.

[NCMarsh]

From Harry Anderson Wise Guy by Mike Caveney:

Later that week a big shot from CBS television came in to the Castle to see the show. Harry did his usual Needle Through Arm routine...After the show, this CBS guy storms out of the theater and wants to see the owner. Within earshot, sitting at the Palace Bar minding his own business, is Milt Larsen. Still steaming, the guy charges over to Milt and says, 'Who the hell is that guy and why the hell do you let him do that? I'm insulted and my wife's stomach is upset and as a producer at CBS I would NEVER hire that guy.' Milt sipped at a glass of white whine as the guy stormed out of the Castle.
Word of the ruckus reached the dressing room and Harry came out to the bar which was still buzzing. 'What's going on, Milt? Should I quit doing the needle?' 'Don't be ridiculous,' Milt said between sips. 'That man will never forget who you are. He may forget why he remembers you, but he will never forget who you are.'

I've seen the thumbtip vanish of a silk done with greater technical skill by many more people -- but I can't remember any particular performance. I remember Ursula's.

She had a clear premise for the trick, one that grew organically (in her case, quite organically) from who she is. And she made a room full of adults at a comedy festival care about a handkerchief vanishing and re-appearing.

How many magicians could have worked that room with a silk vanish?

One of the signs of a star is that there are as many people who hate their work as love their work. They make clear choices, and that separates them from everyone else. It also means they're going to turn a certain percentage off -- and often a large percentage, but the ones who are passionate about the star (in part because there are specific, clear choices about image that give them something to love) will fill stadiums paying $60-100 per ticket.

That Ursula seems to get two responses -- people either love the act or hate it -- is a sign that she's on the right path...

[Tom Stone]

That Ursula seems to get two responses -- people either love the act or hate it

What many seem to miss is that this isn't Ursula's main repertoire. It's just one single number that for some reason has gotten a lot of attention, and should probably not be used to evaluate her whole body of work. The reviews of her theatre shows (Curing Homosexuality, A Family Outing, Show Off, Office Party, My Stories Your Emails etc.) seems to be very favourable.

[Richard Kaufman]

She's on the right path all right ... to a yeast infection.

[Dustin Stinett]

First, why did someone dredge up this thing?

What: Its like a train wreck and you cant keep from looking at it?

Second: How many people here liked the guys from the Swedens Got Talent where the one finished his striptease/vanishing hanky bit by having the little yellow hanky appear covering only his dingle and dangles?

I made this argument before and was blasted for it, but Ill say it again: To me (and several lay-people to whom I showed both acts), they are the same act, just different genitalia and better techniqueand more entertainingon his part (no pun intended.) And again, you see just as much of his as you do of hers, so that argument is completely bogus.

If you dont like genitalia involved in magic, then both acts are bad for magic. If you think one act is better than the other, then you must believe that its okay for genitalia to be involved in magic as long as its entertaining and well executed; there can be no in between.

Dustin

[Seuss]

The Great Flydini did it with class.

[Richard Kaufman]

The Great Flydini did it with class,
he produced things magically,
but not from his ass.
Nor did his urethra provide a location,
from which he could later remove a silk covered in uration.

[Tom Frame]

Well done, Richard!

[Seuss]

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!

[Ray Eden]

The Great Flydini is CLASSIC!!! Its great that Carson was able to talk Martin into doing that bit right before Carson left The Tonight Show.