The Professor

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Curtis Kam
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Re: The Professor

Postby Curtis Kam » July 12th, 2008, 12:02 am

Not to wander too far off topic, but Ramsay himself doing the C&C?! How many first-born children would it take to get that for the next Coinvention?

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: The Professor

Postby Dustin Stinett » July 12th, 2008, 12:03 am

I did not think (nor mean to imply) that you were talking about the Magic Circus footage. I was just noting that--among all the clips on that site--that one is available on DVD (in great quality I might add). I saw what I thought was more than one clip from the Spirit of Magic video.

I wish there was an easy answer to the pirating going on. I would love to see the footage you are speaking about, particularly the Ramsay material!

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Re: The Professor

Postby David Ben » July 12th, 2008, 11:44 am

The footage shot and edited by Sid Lorraine will see the light of day. It will probably be posted in the future at www.magicana.com. The first step is, however, the digit transfer and restoration.

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Re: The Professor

Postby John Carney » July 12th, 2008, 5:52 pm

Curtis Kam wrote:Not to wander too far off topic, but Ramsay himself doing the C&C?! How many first-born children would it take to get that for the next Coinvention?


I believe you are referring to the footage that is on Andrew Galloway's teaching DVD.....the Ramsay footage is at the end.

http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/full/Magic- ... __3268.htm

I've seen this.......I can't remember if he did the whole routine............it kind of jumps in and out.........cameras had to be wound back then.......so he was probably going faster than he normally would, and they had to stop every 15-20 seconds to rewind the camera!

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Re: The Professor

Postby John Carney » July 12th, 2008, 5:57 pm

John Carney wrote:
Curtis Kam wrote:Not to wander too far off topic, but Ramsay himself doing the C&C?! How many first-born children would it take to get that for the next Coinvention?


I believe you are referring to the footage that is on Andrew Galloway's teaching DVD.....the Ramsay footage is at the end.

http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/full/Magic- ... __3268.htm

I've seen this.......I can't remember if he did the whole routine............it kind of jumps in and out.........cameras had to be wound back then.......so he was probably going faster than he normally would, and they had to stop every 15-20 seconds to rewind the camera!

carney



oops.....just went back in the thread.......I don't think the film in Galloway's DVD is Sid Lorraine's........I was referring to the only film I've seen of Ramsay.

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000
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Re: The Professor

Postby 000 » July 15th, 2008, 12:27 am

Come on you Vernonphiles.
Did Vernon ever incorporate the centre deal into any card effects or routines?

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Re: The Professor

Postby David Ben » July 15th, 2008, 7:55 am

Yes, but none of them have been published.

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Re: The Professor

Postby amp » July 15th, 2008, 8:49 am

-
I was reading an old issue of Genii July 1968 ( 40 years ago)
on page 525 is an open letter to "Senator" Crandall who some what attack Vernon in TOPS in July of 1968 by Lou Derman.

In Tops the July "68 issue The Senator said this about Vernon ,"I recall well the first lecture he gave in Chicago.It was impossible for any mortal to live up to such fantastic advance billing.His godlike reputation became unglorified.The nebulous aura of divinity melted and the magic-club members were shocked to learn that even the great ones dropped coins,fumbled billiard balls,missed locations and forgot angles. The purists were horrified but they didn't understand his far out super - moves anyway.He was over their heads and it was just as well."

In September of TOPS 1968 The Senator Writes more and Karrell Fox backs up Mr.Crandall.
Then in TOPS in October of 1968 Crandall has this to say,....."A Touch of Vernon" series by the Professor Himself. Bill(Larsen)says ..."It is ...something we are all looking forward to as there is no one in magic with more knowlegde than Dai Vernon.(Senator Crandall note and copy) " Well I've noted it and copied it and I'm happy beyond description to see anyone earn his room and board."

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Re: The Professor

Postby 000 » July 15th, 2008, 1:39 pm

Thank you David Ben.
Is there then much 'work' by Vernon that has not been published ?

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Re: The Professor

Postby David Ben » July 15th, 2008, 1:55 pm

Yes, I believe there is a great deal of Vernon material that has not been published. Some of it was passed on by word of mouth, other items have been described more fully in print - letters, notebooks, manuscripts, for example - than others. As to its value, that will depend on the eye of the beholder.

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Re: The Professor

Postby El Mystico » July 15th, 2008, 2:27 pm

and what are the chances of it being published?

Presumably now that Bruce Cervon has died and his diaries are being published separately, the chances are reduced. but in the Lost Chronicles 3, Steve Minch was talking of of using material from Csuri and others for the next volume. That must still be a possibility?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: The Professor

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 15th, 2008, 5:02 pm

It's not simply a matter of taking a batch of material that exists in a certain spot, or even several places, and putting it in print.

The 10,000 words on Vernon I just wrote for the August issue will illustrate the point. Vernon has written about the Diagonal Palm Shift in Revelation(s), and you can see him do it on the Revelations videos. Ditto for the Erdnase Bottom Palm. However, even by combining the information in both of those descriptions you will not have all the touches that made his performances of those moves perfect.

Fortunately he taught them to me, and I've been waiting since 1983 to publish them--this special issue of Genii on Vernon and Erdnase gave me the chance. However, few other people have all the details on these sleights and can also write, or are willing to write. The descriptions were excrutiating to write! Very difficult.

So much of Vernon's material is that way, with slight finger pressures here and there, a bend of the card, an angle of the finger, and so on. The Cervon Castle Notebooks do not begin to convey all the details in the material of Vernon's which they explain.

Just to whet your appetites, here is a table of contents of the 10,000 word article with about 70 photos:

Reminiscences in Sleight of Hand with Dai Vernon

On his book Revelations and The Spread
More on Revelations: Gamblers Vs. Magicians and Gamblers Palm
On The Double Palm Change
On the Erdnase One-Hand Color Changes
The French Shift
The French Shift Color Change
Skinning the Hand
Covertly and Reading Erdnase Closely
Vernon on Many Modern Sleights
On Elliotts Riffle Pass
On Being Natural
On the Charlier Cut
The Diagonal Palm Shift
The Erdnase Bottom Palm
John Ramsay and the True Secret of Magic
That Deck Switch
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Re: The Professor

Postby El Mystico » July 16th, 2008, 3:23 am

This summer is going to be a positive Vernon-fest!

Talking of how well Vernon mateeriaal gets explained...has anyonee here any insights on his Gemini Cards? Where your prediction and the spectator's selection go into an envelope - then come straight out again to show they match? What's that all about? Vernon must have had some presentation angle to cover such a weird procedure, but I've never been able to think of one.

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Re: The Professor

Postby amp » July 16th, 2008, 10:08 pm

Did Vernon appear in the 1969 Movie April Fools ?

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Re: The Professor

Postby Max Maven » July 17th, 2008, 4:48 am

El Mystico wrote:Talking of how well Vernon mateeriaal gets explained...has anyonee here any insights on his Gemini Cards? Where your prediction and the spectator's selection go into an envelope - then come straight out again to show they match? What's that all about? Vernon must have had some presentation angle to cover such a weird procedure, but I've never been able to think of one.


You might want to take a look at a routine called "Envelogic" in the October 1985 Linking Ring, as it addresses this very topic.

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Ramsay footage

Postby Glenn Farrington » August 1st, 2008, 5:29 pm

David,

I think it's important to note that I am absolutely okay with Curtis giving away his first born so the rest of us can see the Ramsay footage. From what I understand they may not even be his kids...so no harm no foul.

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Re: Ramsay footage

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 1st, 2008, 7:05 pm

Glad to hear there's some willingness to bring a little existing Ramsay footage out.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Ramsay footage

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 1st, 2008, 9:48 pm

What is Farrington's post about Ramsay footage doing in this thread about Vernon? Or did I miss something?
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Re: The Professor

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 1st, 2008, 10:02 pm

Here's part of the how

David Ben wrote:The footage shot and edited by Sid Lorraine will see the light of day. It will probably be posted in the future at www.magicana.com. The first step is, however, the digit transfer and restoration.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: The Professor

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 1st, 2008, 10:08 pm

Oh. There's already lots of Ramsay footage available on the two-volume DVD set from International Magic. Did I mention that we have a John Ramsay issue of Genii coming up with some unpublished items? :)
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The Professor

Postby CardioloJest » August 2nd, 2008, 7:05 am

Don't know if this topic has been posted, but if you haven't seen the movie, Shade, it's a must see. Hal Holbrook plays the role of Vernon, and all the bit players have names of real magicians. Fellow who plays Larry Jennings is black! Much of it was shot at the Castle. The bonus feature is very revealing -- all of the non-magician actors learned the sleights they performed in the flick.
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Re: The Professor

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 2nd, 2008, 11:14 am

We had an enormous cover story on Shade in the Genii years ago--all behind the scenes stuff. The movie tanked.
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Re: The Professor

Postby Terry » August 2nd, 2008, 6:29 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Oh. There's already lots of Ramsay footage available on the two-volume DVD set from International Magic. Did I mention that we have a John Ramsay issue of Genii coming up with some unpublished items? :)


Richard,

Will the article be biographic, just tricks or a combination?

The coin vanish done on Vol 1 of 'The Magic of John Ramsay' is a thing of beauty.

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David Scollnik
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Re: The Professor

Postby David Scollnik » August 2nd, 2008, 10:48 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:We had an enormous cover story on Shade in the Genii years ago--all behind the scenes stuff. The movie tanked.

Are you saying that the cover of Genii is to magic-themed movies what the cover of, say, Time or Newsweek is to the stock market?

http://www.iht.com/articles/1996/03/09/contro.t.php

:)

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Re: The Professor

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 2nd, 2008, 11:22 pm

Combination.
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Re: The Professor

Postby Bill McFadden » August 3rd, 2008, 3:02 pm

CardioloJest wrote:Don't know if this topic has been posted, but if you haven't seen the movie, Shade, it's a must see. Hal Holbrook plays the role of Vernon, and all the bit players have names of real magicians. Fellow who plays Larry Jennings is black!


Rilly, dude . . . I'm all like, where's the beard? The cigarette? The drink? . . . so bogus, yo . . .

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David Thomas
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Re: The Professor

Postby David Thomas » August 8th, 2008, 5:24 pm

Bill McFadden wrote:
CardioloJest wrote:Don't know if this topic has been posted, but if you haven't seen the movie, Shade, it's a must see. Hal Holbrook plays the role of Vernon, and all the bit players have names of real magicians. Fellow who plays Larry Jennings is black!


Rilly, dude . . . I'm all like, where's the beard? The cigarette? The drink? . . . so bogus, yo . . .


Yeah yo totally......dude....so bogus..rilly....

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Re: The Professor

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 12th, 2008, 12:25 pm

Don't you dis Shade - they're just trying to get paid.
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Re: The Professor

Postby Magic Newswire » August 13th, 2008, 11:39 am

Bill Wheeler wrote:I am fairly certain that this advice was also mentioned in the Ricky Jay article in "The New Yorker" as well.



I don't see it anywhere in the New Yorker piece but do remember it from BUZZ. Just for clarification...

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Re: The Professor

Postby Magic Newswire » August 13th, 2008, 11:53 am

It's not quite 25 years ago, but here's another Genii Vernon cover for your viewing pleasure:

Image

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Re: The Professor

Postby DrDanny » August 13th, 2008, 12:32 pm

That's a bloody awful photo. I wouldn't recognize him from that shot. Is it the reproduction or ??

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: The Professor

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 13th, 2008, 12:32 pm

No--it's just a gruesome photo. He hated it.
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Re: The Professor

Postby Magic Newswire » August 14th, 2008, 10:36 am

I refer to the article Vernons Wisdom, Part 1 by Roberto Giobbi.
He states that Vernon always strove for excellence, and gives two examples. In one instance he informed his son, who had proudly announced to him that he had come third in an athletic competition, never to come to him again unless he got at least first place. Personally I can think of nothing worse to tell a child in these circumstances. In the second instance, after a man had approached him and showed him a lousy card trick, he scolded him with the words that he was the worst magician he had ever seen, and that he should never show him another card trick.


In the film "Spirit of Magic," Vernon's son makes the comment, "As a father, he was a great magician."

Max maven talks a bit about this revisionism and criticism of the Professor in our first interview with him which you may find interesting as well.

LISTEN HERE

Harry Anderson tells the same story about his criticism of another magician.

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Re: The Professor

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 14th, 2008, 11:04 am

I heard the "as a father he was a great magician" remark at the 1987 Vernon Symposium and took that as a cue not to ask him about anything relating to that side of human values. Not everyone is equiped to help others grow by providing support or reassurance or just the right advice when it's ready to be absorbed.

On the other side I can tell you that when I was introduced to the man by Sol Stone and we sat together I saw an attentive and perceptive person who seemed to truly gravitate toward and seek out excellence. The way he spoke of a manipulator named Manuel - his tonality changed as well as the set of his eyes. Same for his shift when discussing the Mora vanish, the Crawford coin vanish... those gems he found over his lifetime and demonstrated later that evening.

Getting back to Shade - IMHO it pretty much confirms Harlan Ellison's line about getting folks to think they are thinking... but the card changes in the credits were nice.
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Re: The Professor

Postby timbrown » August 15th, 2008, 8:58 am

I have a copy of that particular Genii that I took to the "Midwest Magic Jubilee" in St. Louis many years ago. I somehow managed to get enough courage to approach the Professor and ask him to autograph my copy. With the ever present cigar clenched in his teeth he took my copy and very graciously signed it "to Tim, Dai Vernon".

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Re: The Professor

Postby Magic Newswire » August 15th, 2008, 9:36 am

I was always Partial to the caricature of the Professor that hangs on the wall in the Castle. In spite of knowing of his proficiency in other areas of magic, I was surprised that it pictured him with cup and ball instead of cards:

Image

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Re: The Professor

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 15th, 2008, 9:49 am

Perhaps what Ted Salter was most impressed with was the visual memory of Vernon doing the Mora ball vanish with a large ball.

Not everyone finds card magic as visually impressive as the cone and ball or the cups and balls.
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Re: The Professor

Postby Randy Naviaux » August 26th, 2008, 4:54 pm

I just finished writing 10,000 words of material from my 1983 interview with Vernon for our August issue, which went to the printer today. I explained many details that he shared with me about The Diagonal Palm Shift, Erdnase Bottom Palm, French Shift, Skinning the Hand, The Spread, and much more, including lots of wisdom and opinions. There are details about all of these sleights that haven't been published previously. Now I'm going to bed.


I enjoyed this material. I have been working on the DPS for some years now and made a few changes that went against the published gospel. I got a kick out of seeing those touches written up by Mr. Kaufman in Genii.

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Re: The Professor

Postby 000 » September 26th, 2008, 5:50 am

Here is a quote by Vernon regarding the names of effects, talking about The Ramo Samee Card Trick. ( From The Sphinx, Golden Jubilee book of Magic)

'Ramo Samee, an East Indian magician, was the first recorded performer of his nationality to appear in America. There is nothing East Indian about the trick- but then you know how it is with a name for a trick'

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Re: The Professor

Postby El Mystico » April 1st, 2014, 1:47 pm

Just stumbled across this old thread...it was good!
Any further thoughts on the guy?
I note that I still hold him in huge regard.
Either he was good; or I'm just an old stubborn fart.


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