Slydini's material

[Kieran]

Hi everyone,
I have Slydini's "as i recall" dvd set and would like to get his books also, the thing is i dont want to get the books that have the same material as in the dvd set. If anyone has the dvd set and books could you please point me in the right direction as to which books to get, thanks.

Kieran

[Richard Kaufman]

There are only four books:
The Magic of Slydini
Slydini Encores
The Best of Slydini
The Magical World of Slydini.

You need all of them.

[Jeffrey Cowan]

Concur with Richard, but you want the relatively recent annotated version of The Magic of Slydini. Gene Matsura adds some great tips and details that Lewis Ganson missed (or Tony didn't share with him).
I recommend that you first buy/study the Magic of Slydini and The Best of Slydini and More before getting to the other two books. These two contain the cornerstones of Slydini's work on timing and movement that you need to understand to do much of his material.

[Kieran]

Thanks for the replies, i will get all the books and look forward to reading every one of them. The man was a legend and I cannot stop watching him perform on the dvds, even before I go out the dvd set i must of watched him on YouTube a 100 times!

Kieran

[performer]

I agree with Richard that all 4 books should be read. I do find one fault with all of them except the Encores book is the million photographs which I find may not necessarily be a good thing. As grumpy old Wilfrid Jonson once remarked it is an incompetent author and an inattentive student who requires dollops and dollops of illustrations to study a subject. And all those pictures have a tendency to turn the student into a Slydini clone. And it can make things more of a struggle to study when you have to keep looking at another picture every few seconds.

I do a lot of Slydini material but I found it early on that once you have mastered the stuff you should not be afraid to change it somewhat to your own style. For example I always found that the paper balls in a hat thing was somewhat weak and indeed boring. And Ken Brooke once told me that even Slydini thought it wasn't that great but he included in his book as it was an excellent illustration of his techniques and necessary for the student to progress in the studies of his methods.

I always ignored the trick until fairly recently. Now I get great results from it. I got rid of the silly hat or box idea, substituted a paper bag for it so I could perform it impromptu in coffee shops, I got rid of the music nonsense and substituted amusing patter and altered the method so I wouldn't be making an invisible ball disappear. I believe the trick is twice as good as it was before.

The moral of the tale is not to be stuck in the Slydini material as if it were cast in tablets of stone. Once you have mastered it then don't be afraid to alter it to suit yourself.

[Kieran]

Thank you for the advice Mark about not becoming another slydini clone, whenever i perfect a trick i always try and change it abit so im performing it my way not the same as 100's of other magicians. Just recently I learned Nate leipzig's colour change from the book "A tribute to Nate leipzig", i perfected it the way it is described in the book but now have changed the handling a little to suit me.

Kieran

[performer]

Yes, I have also changed the Leipzig colour change routine around to suit my own preferences.

[Leonard Hevia]

At the very end of The Best of Slydini...and More, Fulves announces the imminent arrival of the second set of books, and lists the effects slated for those two volumes. There were silk effects in that list like the appearing and color changing silks, along with Slydini's well known silk knots routine. I have never seen any of those other silk effects published or mentioned anywhere. The knots routine made it to the second set but the rest slipped thru the cracks when Fulves worked on the books.

[J-Mac]

There is also "The Master of Misdirection" by D. Angelo Ferri (aka Dennis Barlotta).

The book is all on Slydini and is written by a long-time student of his. I believe it is only available as an ebook.

Jim

[Q. Kumber]

There's another book (about 20 pages) of Slydini material that never seems to get mentioned. It's Slydini's Linking Rubber Band Mystery by Alma Ritchie (Bluestone).

Googling has not resulted in any information on Alma Ritchie.

The routine is structurally a mirror image of Slydini's Linking Pins, written by and described by Richard Kaufman in Apocalypse Volume One, and also available from Palmer Magic. Done well, Slydini's Linking Rubber Bands is, in my opinion much stronger than most of the linking bands handlings I've seen, largely because it is a properly structured routine that builds and makes eyes pop.

[Leonard Hevia]

Fulves wrote at the end of The Best of Slydini...

By way of ending this book it might be wise to mention that when this book was in progress it became clear after approximately six months that all of the major Slydini routines and concepts could not be contained in a single volume. Accordingly, work then began on a parallel course to develop the text and photos for a second book. The book is now in preparation and will contain most or all of the following routines and techniques:

Here is the material that to my eyes didn't make it to the second set of books:

1. Slydini Color Change--What is this? A color changing silks effect?
2. The Close-Up Dice Routine--Sounds interesting.
2. Slydini on the Optical Cut--Is this the Table Shift on page 28 of the second book that supposedly fooled Vernon?
4. Delayed Cut as a Pass--Sounds interesting.
5. The Slydini False Count--Sounds interesting.
6. Stretching a Cigarette--This is in Ganson's The Magic of Slydini. Or in Slydini Encores? You break a cigarette in two and stretch out the individual pieces into two cigarettes.

[Richard Kaufman]

I think some of that stuff later ended up in Chronicles.

[performer]

I remember reading a manuscript describing Slydini's Linking Pins. I thought it was bloody awful. You really cannot beat the Andrus Linking Pins.

[Leonard Hevia]

I remember reading a manuscript describing Slydini's Linking Pins. I thought it was bloody awful. You really cannot beat the Andrus Linking Pins.

Gaetan Bloom has a killer linking pins effect.

[performer]

Good for him. Can they be examined?

[Leonard Hevia]

I think some of that stuff later ended up in Chronicles.

My copy of Chronicles is in storage but I did look up the table of contents in Dennis Behr's Conjuring Archive website. The Slydini entries are mostly ring and rope effects and some work on the Okito box. Nothing from the Fulves list.

[Richard Kaufman]

Good for him. Can they be examined?

Mark, sometimes you don't know what you're talking about. I did Slydini's pin routine for years. No one ever asked to examine the pins.

[performer]

Richard. I bloody well DO know what I am talking about! I have no idea who you have been showing the trick to. Or how often you have been doing it. Probably not that frequently and probably to other magicians and if this is the case then it doesn't count. However, let us assume that you have been showing the trick to LAYMEN (and they are the only audiences that count).

I know how laymen think. I am an expert on it. In fact I deem it essential for a close up magician to know how the human mind works particularly the mind of a layman you show a trick to. Now just because someone doesn't ask to examine the pins doesn't mean that they wouldn't like to. People aren't stupid---the very FIRST thing they will suspect is a slit in the pins! They might not say it out loud to you but they will bloody well suspect it.

If the pins are not examinable then the trick is pathetic. I don't care what beautiful moves there are. I haven't seen the Gaeton Bloom routine but I don't give a stuff how wonderful it is if the pins cannot be examined it is a complete waste of time. And that goes for the rather awful Slydini routine as well. And bear in mind that I am a big fan of Slydini and use a lot of his material. But I know crap when I see it.

This is the Slydini pins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hyTMRLTBj0

This is the Bloom Routine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6uuGCgdABw

And THIS is the Andrus routine. No comparison whatsoever. Everyone can judge for themselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hQfBSmmaZE

[fausstroll]

I think some of that stuff later ended up in Chronicles.

My copy of Chronicles is in storage but I did look up the table of contents in Dennis Behr's Conjuring Archive website. The Slydini entries are mostly ring and rope effects and some work on the Okito box. Nothing from the Fulves list.

Slydini's pin routine is in Apocalypse, p106

[fausstroll]

I remember reading a manuscript describing Slydini's Linking Pins. I thought it was bloody awful. You really cannot beat the Andrus Linking Pins.

I don't understant. Slydini and Andrus use the same kind of pin, so why do you judge Andrus superior ? Is it in the routining ?

[Q. Kumber]

I don't understant. Slydini and Andrus use the same kind of pin, so why do you judge Andrus superior ? Is it in the routining ?

The Slydini pin gimmick is different from the Andrus one.. Garton Bloom made a couple of additions to the Slydini gimmick, but his routine is basically the same as Slydini's. The other commonly used pin is that of Hans van Senus, originally published in Apocalypse, and now popularised by Bob Sheets and Dan Garrett.

In 1949 Ken Brooke put out Four Two Pins, a linking pin effect, which used the same gimmick as Slydini, though the routines are completely different. But it does have a move that fits perfectly into the Slydini routine.

I've seen a few people do the Slydini Pin routine and every single one of them have left out the most important part - it is there in the instructions. The routine is a staple part of my repertoire, always gets a strong reaction, and the pins are handled by the audience.

Neither the Andrus nor Van Senus routines ever appealed to me, as, while very clever and ingenious, to me they look like wire puzzles.

[performer]

I remember reading a manuscript describing Slydini's Linking Pins. I thought it was bloody awful. You really cannot beat the Andrus Linking Pins.

I don't understant. Slydini and Andrus use the same kind of pin, so why do you judge Andrus superior ? Is it in the routining ?

Different type of pin entirely. Bloody great gap in it. Horrible thing. You might get away with it in professional work where people are too polite to say "Let me see those pins" but you will never get away with it when performing impromptu for family and friends. Magicians have a terrible habit of underestimating the intelligence of laymen. You HAVE to have the pins examined or at the very least handled (and i don't think that is enough) otherwise you are wasting your time even doing the bloody thing.

[performer]

[/quote]


Neither the Andrus nor Van Senus routines ever appealed to me, as, while very clever and ingenious, to me they look like wire puzzles.[/quote]

Yes. Perhaps in the way you might do it. But wire puzzles do not elicit gasps of astonishment in the way that the Andrus pins do. The routining is excellent and doing it with three pins instead of two confuses the issue enough to lead away from the secret. And you can have them EXAMINED rather than merely handled. And they look just like ordinary safety pins which of course is what most of them are. I vaguely remember the Slydini pins looking like nothing on earth although my memory might be faulty.

The Slydini pins is a classic example of the too perfect theory in action.

I have only one objection to the Andrus pins and that is that the climax is a bit weak but naturally I have sorted that out in my usual masterful fashion.

Incidentally I did watch the Gaeton Bloom video again and at least HE has the sense to have them examined even if nobody asks him to. If you don't do that then the trick is not worth bothering with. I still think the Andrus routine is miles better though. Three pins are better than one. And the strongest bit which always produces gasps is where the spectator holds one pin and the other is balanced on top but with a little flick of the pin it goes right through. And then you repeat the action by making the penetrated pin penetrate AGAIN onto the pin the magician is holding. There is nothing stronger you can do with the pin trick.

[Joe Mckay]

David Harkey (who is a magic genius!) has the best handling for the Andrus linking pins.

He totally reworks the effect into a completely different trick.

You can see it performed on Japanese TV over here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_-KSyGUWsY

I wish David Harkey would come back to magic and share more of his wonderful ideas. He was all over the place in the late 80's/early 90's.

His best stuff is some of the best stuff ever published in magic.

[Brad Henderson]

It’s not exactly the same pin as the andrus. Harkey made it very clear in conversation he considered them different, though i think the differences are hard to tell. basically the gaffs in the andrus set are a touch ‘looser’ and make it easier to do the moves in that routine.

[Richard Kaufman]

The Gaetan Bloom version of Slydini's Linking Pins is the best version. By far. It's on the market.

[Brad Henderson]

Sol Stone performed his handling of the Slydini pins when we first met. It looked amazing.

[performer]

I can't get excited about the Gaeton Bloom routine at all. The best thing about it is that is over quickly and at least he does have the pins examined. The trouble is that all he is doing is linking and unlinking the pins several times. Just repeating the trick. No variety in the routine--no interesting phases. And no body to the trick since there are only two pins instead of three. He presents it well but alas there is nothing much to present.

You really cannot improve on the Andrus pins. I have no idea why anyone bothers. They usually make things worse. As Al Baker said, "Many a trick has been killed by improvement"

[Jack Shalom]

It’s not exactly the same pin as the andrus. Harkey made it very clear in conversation he considered them different, though i think the differences are hard to tell. basically the gaffs in the andrus set are a touch ‘looser’ and make it easier to do the moves in that routine.

The Harkey effect, which I had never seen before, in my opinion, immediately leads to the solution. I didn't like it at all. I didn't know the working of the Andrus pins, but if the Harkey is the same, then I now know. The Harkey effect has the magic happening right at the gimmicked area. Much harder to tell in the other routines.

[webbmaster]

I agree with most of what was said. Sol Stone fooled me also with the Slidini style pins. But I want to throw into the mix that Jack Chanin used to do a routine with a regular (ungifted) large safety pin and he'd pin it to a handkerchief (borrowed) then slide it far to a different spot and not rip the handkerchief, yet it would be pinned through the cloth again. I think it is old. I probably saw it in some old books.

[Bill Mullins]

But I want to throw into the mix that Jack Chanin used to do a routine with a regular (ungifted) large safety pin and he'd pin it to a handkerchief (borrowed) then slide it far to a different spot and not rip the handkerchief, yet it would be pinned through the cloth again. I think it is old.

It's in Tarbell #3 (1943). I don't know if it is in the mail order course from the 1920s.

[webbmaster]

Back to the Slydini books; you could spend years honing the 1 coin routine, and another routine that gives you a good grounding in Slydini routine construction theory is the Paper Balls to Hat, not to be confused with Paper Balls Over the Head.

[performer]

I have the best routine for the paper balls to hat. First no hat-paper bags instead. Second, no daft music. Third, only three balls instead of four. Fourth, no making invisible balls disappear (the last ball). That is kind of daft when you think about it.

[performer]

For those who think that Slydini was just a magician's magician (and I read something in a book recently which made derogatory remarks to this effect) Ken Brooke once related to me an interesting tale. It seems that Ken used to do magic in his local pub for the regulars and of course they all thought he was marvellous because he was actually a terrific entertainer. However, Slydini was visiting the UK at the time and Ken told the regulars that he would bring in this fantastic world renowned magician from America. They snorted, "Oh, he won't be as good as you, Ken!"

Anyway the next evening Ken brought Slydini into the pub and of course he performed for the regulars. Ken said that he created an absolute sensation and the laymen LOVED him giving lie to the assumption that he was merely a performer for magicians. Oddly enough Ken said he didn't do any lapping. Instead he would toss objects such as the half cigarette used in the broken and restored cigarette trick over the shoulder of a spectator instead. I wish I had been there to see it!

[Gerald Deutsch]

In the Perverse Magic thread below I have many references of how I use Slydini's principles but use my own style - that is - while Slydini was a slow talker I talk rather quickly.

But I use his principles of lapping and misdirection in many effects.

[Tarotist]

I have a theory that I have seen proven time and time again counter intuitive as it may seem. I believe certain magicians can get better reactions doing their tricks wrong than others can doing their tricks right. I believe this is for two reasons one of which is that they underestimate the magician who can then go in for the kill and the second reason is that it dilutes the resentment factor that a lot of laymen have either on a conscious or unconscious level at being fooled. I used to do the pin trick under discussion but haven't done it for years and years. Not too long ago I got hold of a set of pins and tried my old routine out on you tube but completely forgot how to do it! Age you know..........

However, it didn't make the blindest bit of difference to the reaction and the comments underneath. Laymen actually quite like a bit of incompetence at times. They actually warm to you if you play it right. Here is an example.

[Tarotist]

Oh, I forgot to post the bloody example! Still, incompetence is part of my point. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga0pZ58NfKw

[El Mystico]

My personal experience - timing is vital in the best Slydini effects. And you can only get the timing right with constant practice. A moment's hesitation, and you've lost. Timing is important in all magic. But with things like his One Coin Routine, it is essential.

[Tarotist]

I have had wonderful results with the One Coin Routine of Slydini. I cut some of it out in order to incorporate the glass through table. I have created sensations with this combination. At psychic fairs I adapt things to Buddha through the table instead.