Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

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Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Philippe Noël » November 26th, 2011, 2:50 pm

I thought it was Dai Vernon but in Card College Vol. 5 it is written on page 1239 that: "Lin Searles introduced the notion that the aces might travel singly".
Do you know where and when Lin Searles introduced the notion?

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby jason156 » November 26th, 2011, 11:04 pm

I thought Lin Searles idea was to have the Aces a different color back from the indifferent cards?

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 26th, 2011, 11:12 pm

That was my impression as well. These innovations took place decades apart, Vernon in New York City much earlier, the 1940s, doing a "slow-motion" assembly. I thought the Lin Searles idea of odd backed Aces was from the late 1950s.
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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Steve Bryant » November 27th, 2011, 11:27 am

Darwin Ortiz takes a rather wonderful stab at the history of all ace assemblies in The Annotated Erdnase. He credits Lin only with the different color backs idea, first appearing in "Ultimate Aces" in 1958. (It used gaffed cards, but he also included an ungaffed method.) According to the piece, Vernon first published his work on slow-motion four aces in the trick "Mobilizing the Aces" in Sphinx, Vol. 40 No. 1 (March 1941). He and Dr. Daley supposedly came up with over 60 variations.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Philippe Billot » November 27th, 2011, 12:37 pm

Over 60 variations?

Curious, I thought this was only the prerogative of Edward Marlo...

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 27th, 2011, 1:30 pm

Was there an assembly where you gave an ace and three x cards to each of four volunteers and then the audience picked (or some selection) one and that's who wound up with the all four aces?

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby El Mystico » November 27th, 2011, 2:21 pm

Philippe;

I think the difference was that Marlo published all his variations; Vernon published only his best.

I think The Anotated Erdnase is flawed; but one of the best guides we currently have to the history of card magic.
Along with Minch's from Witchcraft to Card tricks.

It's such a small area; but I'd love to see a collection of the various attempts at the one at a time aces effect.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Philippe Noël » November 27th, 2011, 3:59 pm

Hi El Mystico,

Here are some:

Vernon's Slow Motion Aces:
http://youtu.be/Hxvz7fbKEMI

Marlo's Bluff Ace Assembly:
http://youtu.be/cHYzwxXGBvk

O'Henry Ace Assembly:
http://youtu.be/tLWkLKAe6BE

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Philippe Billot » November 27th, 2011, 4:19 pm

El Mystico wrote:Philippe;

I think the difference was that Marlo published all his variations; Vernon published only his best.



I know this story and I made simply a joke.

I appreciate Darwin Ortiz's Book and also T.A. Waters' Mind, Myth & Magick and Potter's Index and I think MagicPedia is becoming a good guide too.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby webbmaster » March 20th, 2017, 1:49 pm

....I seem to remember a precursor to MacDonald's Aces in Hilliard's Lost Notebooks. Maybe take a look. I remember I found it interesting.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 20th, 2017, 2:47 pm

webbmaster wrote:....I seem to remember a precursor to MacDonald's Aces in Hilliard's Lost Notebooks. Maybe take a look. I remember I found it interesting.


Is this about the gaffs? - Gregg, it's in Hofzinser's Card Conjuring - there was something using a newspaper and gaffs too in a journal.
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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Philippe Billot » March 21st, 2017, 3:21 pm

If someone owns The Dragon, Vol. 10, no. 8, August 1941, could he check if page 1 the trick Independent Aces by Oscar Weigle is a Slow Motion Assembly.

If so, I'll be very happy if he could send me a copy (of the trick, not the magazine!)

Thank in advance

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 21st, 2017, 4:05 pm

Oscar lived in New York City, and hung out with the regulars. I would imagine (and David Ben could likely confirm this from letters in his possession) that Vernon was doing it prior to that date.
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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Philippe Billot » March 21st, 2017, 5:23 pm

I agree, Vernon described his trick Mobilizing the Aces in The Sphinx,January 1941.

I just want to compare the methods.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby webbmaster » March 29th, 2017, 10:40 am

The precursor to MacDonald's was with gaffs, the one in Lost Hilliard Notebooks. What I wondered today was if assemblies with coins, sugar cubes etc. predate assemblies with cards but maybe inspired the idea ?

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 29th, 2017, 10:51 am

"McDonald's Aces" was created by Johann Hofzinzser in the early to mid 1800s and called "The Power of Faith" (or "Belief"). End of story. Even the one-handed toss of the cards to show that the Ace has vanished from the packet comes from Hofzinser.
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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Marco Pusterla » March 29th, 2017, 2:36 pm

Philippe Billot wrote:If someone owns The Dragon, Vol. 10, no. 8, August 1941, could he check if page 1 the trick Independent Aces by Oscar Weigle is a Slow Motion Assembly.


Yes, the trick is a slow motion version. Oscar Weigle mentions Vernon and his "business" to have the aces travel one at a time, and refers to the version in The Sphinx (the Anniversary edition mentioned elsewhere in this thread) and presents his version that simplifies Vernon's method by eliminating some of the palms and other "unnatural moves".
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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby performer » March 29th, 2017, 2:55 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:"McDonald's Aces" was created by Johann Hofzinzser in the early to mid 1800s and called "The Power of Faith" (or "Belief"). End of story. Even the one-handed toss of the cards to show that the Ace has vanished from the packet comes from Hofzinser.


Yes. I remember you growling at me when I first met you. We were in a group and I mentioned that Hofzinser invented McDonald Aces. You said nothing for about ten seconds, then suddenly looked up at me for about three seconds then averted your eyes saying, "That's right-Power of Faith" then you started to growl at me snorting, "How do you know that?" as if I was cheating somehow. I then replied, "Probably the same way you did! I read it somewhere" You then growled, "Magicians can't read" I replied, "Well, I can!" and you changed the subject.

However, five minutes later I irritated you further by answering correctly a question you threw out at everyone obviously assuming that nobody would know the answer. And they didn't. Except me of course but you weren't to know that you had a genius in your presence. You snarled to everyone, "Who invented the colour change?" And I gave the correct answer. You will be relieved to know that I have quite forgotten what the correct answer is any more but I have a vague memory it was Felicien Trewey.

I read Hofzinsers description and there wasn't a lot of difference in the way it was done then compared to the way I do it now. I was very impressed with Hofzinsers patter which was very brief and to the point for his day. In those days it seems they had very long leisurely flowery patter which was suited to the times. However, I could tell immediately that Hofzinser must have been a sterling performer because of his economy of words. Some of the present day mentalists could learn from him.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 29th, 2017, 2:57 pm

Mark, when was that?
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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby performer » March 29th, 2017, 3:01 pm

Years and years ago. It was at some convention or other. Since I hardly ever go to conventions it must have been one of those Can-Am things but I am not sure. I don't think it was in Toronto though. Maybe Niagara Falls---I just can't remember. I remember showing you the svengali routine there. There was a large group there in a kind of circle. I had no idea who you were at the time.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby performer » March 29th, 2017, 3:05 pm

I just googled "Felicien Trewey" to see if I was correct about him and the colour change and naturally I was. However, I was quite surprised to find this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKDB4rTaa0


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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby performer » March 29th, 2017, 3:12 pm

I do have to say that not only is "Power of Faith" AKA McDonalds Aces is not only the best ace assembly of them all it may even be the best card trick of them all apart from possibly Out of this World. It is really an incredible stunner. I honestly believe to get the full effect of it you have to have the spectator put their hand on the ace pile. I have tried it both ways. It doesn't even compare.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Ryan Matney » March 29th, 2017, 5:50 pm

Some of Vernon's best known work seems to be attempts to do popular gaffed effects with regular cards.

For example, Triumph is a regular deck version of an effect by Deland (Is Deland's trick called Inverto, Richard?) and Leipzig was also doing this gaffed deck version of the trick which Vernon undoubtedly saw Leipzig perform. It's not hard to imagine that Vernon worked on doing the same effect with a regular deck, applying original sleights (his "Triumph Shuffle") and gambling techniques (The Strip-Out Shuffle.)

If I may postulate further, it's not a big mental leap to assume that Vernon was trying to duplicate Hofzinser's Powers of Faith using regular cards. I know he was familiar with Hofzinser's magic before the 1940s.

There are examples of this throughout Vernon's work but often the antecedents were lost due to time, memory, and third parties writing the descriptions.
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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby performer » March 29th, 2017, 7:08 pm

There are NO ace assembly tricks that match "Power of Faith" for effect on laymen! At least I have never come across it and I have seen a hell of a lot of them. It is just about the only card trick I will do with the special cards in question. It is an inconvenience but it is worth it and I will even carry the extra cards about with me for impromptu performances. And since it was the Vernon card books that I learned it from in the first place I bet he would probably agree with me. I am completely ruthless over methods--I don't care if I am using mathematical principles, prearranged decks, psychology, subtleties, double faced cards or involved sleight of hand. I do what is necessary to get the job done. It is always the effect that counts.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Philippe Billot » April 11th, 2017, 3:37 am

Marco Pusterla wrote:
Philippe Billot wrote:If someone owns The Dragon, Vol. 10, no. 8, August 1941, could he check if page 1 the trick Independent Aces by Oscar Weigle is a Slow Motion Assembly.


Yes, the trick is a slow motion version. Oscar Weigle mentions Vernon and his "business" to have the aces travel one at a time, and refers to the version in The Sphinx (the Anniversary edition mentioned elsewhere in this thread) and presents his version that simplifies Vernon's method by eliminating some of the palms and other "unnatural moves".


Thank you, Marco, and If you can send me a copy, it's "à charge de revanche" as we say in french...

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Rick Franceschin » April 18th, 2017, 6:46 am

In 1914, Stanley Collins published, "Another Four Ace Trick." The four Aces vanish, one at a time, and assemble in a spectator "selected" pile (magician deals five rounds of cards after the vanishes.) If you will allow that "The Four Ace Trick" was what today we call "The Four Ace Assembly," then Collin's treatment predates Vernon's concept of one at a time by a few years. Interestingly, Vernon's handling of the Collin's Aces (as we call it today) used the Collins Vanish, but has the Aces return one at a time to the same packet (Expert Card Technique.) Minimally, I'd say that Collin's work fits into this discussion somehow.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby performer » April 18th, 2017, 8:36 am

Cy Endfield had a pretty good version described in his Ganson book. Aces For Connoisseurs. You can tell that it is really based on the Stanley Collins version.

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Re: Who had first the idea to make a one-at-a-time assembly?

Postby Philippe Billot » April 18th, 2017, 12:14 pm

Rick Franceschin wrote:In 1914, Stanley Collins published, "Another Four Ace Trick." The four Aces vanish, one at a time, and assemble in a spectator "selected" pile (magician deals five rounds of cards after the vanishes.) If you will allow that "The Four Ace Trick" was what today we call "The Four Ace Assembly," then Collin's treatment predates Vernon's concept of one at a time by a few years. Interestingly, Vernon's handling of the Collin's Aces (as we call it today) used the Collins Vanish, but has the Aces return one at a time to the same packet (Expert Card Technique.) Minimally, I'd say that Collin's work fits into this discussion somehow.



See here http://geniimagazine.com/wiki/index.php ... e_Assembly for a little study of this theme.


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