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Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: September 21st, 2008, 9:08 pm
by Alan Stewart
Some belated price comparisons (Prices are from the 1946 Holden's Catalog) :

Greater Magic ....................................$10
Encyclopedia of Card Tricks...............$5
Expert Card Technique........................$5
Tarbell Vol. 1.......................................$5
Tarbell Vol.2, Vol.3.............................$6.50
Tarbell Vol. 4........................................$7.50
Annemann's Practical Mental Effects...$6.50
Out of This World (2 page mimeo).......$1
Standard Bicycle Cards...........................50 cents/pack
I worked a summer job in 1943 as a messenger boy at a printing firm which had the wonderrful advantage of being in the same building as Holden's Boston store on Boylston Street. As I recall I earned something on the order of $12 a week take-home which was mostly eaten up by trolleys, subway and lunch but still managed to save enough to get my copies of Greater Magic, Expert Card Techniqe and Out of This World that summer.

Alan Stewart

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: September 26th, 2008, 8:34 am
by 000
Nice review Dustin.

The price of standard bikes has held up well........if $12,50 in 1938 ( the price then)is worth $161 today, then standard bikes costing $0,50 then ,should be costing roughly $6,44 today.

Question...........Is one able to know how many copies of this book were printed through the editions ?

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: September 26th, 2008, 5:49 pm
by Dustin Stinett
Thanks for the kind words.

I have no clue how that whole CPI comparison thing works; sometimes it makes sense, other times it doesnt. An example is a house that was built in the early 1900s for $5,000 that I know of. The CPI thing says that $5,000 then is about $100,000 today. Theres not a chance in hell that this house could be built for 100 grand today! So go figure.

I recall trying to find out how many were in each subsequent printing (the first was 1,000 books), but couldnt get that information.

Sorry!

Dustin

PS: And thanks again for reading one of my tired old stories. I do appreciate it!

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: September 28th, 2008, 12:13 am
by 000
Its my pleasure!

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: December 5th, 2008, 12:44 am
by Gary Brown
I have a Greater Magic question about which I have long wondered. In the rising card section of the book, there's a very clever method using a gaffed drinking glass. I won't spell out the method here, but for those familiar with it, here's the question: Did anyone ever manufacture or release this prop? I've looked but never found a reference to such an item.

Gary Brown

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 2nd, 2009, 7:25 pm
by dsalley13
Couldn't Kaufman Publishing reprint this book again? I bet there are hundreds of magicians that would buy a $80 to $100 trade edition printing of this book. Prices for the reprinted Kaufman editions are so high, I will never be able to afford it. I bet there are many that feel as I do.

Please, print it again in just a regular trade edition, not leather bound or limited. I don't need a fancy edition. Just a cloth covered binding like it was originally published in. This unavailability just keeps it out of deserving hands. I think I deserve it. Every subscriber to Genii probably does too.

Think of how this could stimulate Kaufman's business in economic hard times like this. I'd skip a few meals and movies to get a copy, but I won't skip a car payment or mortgage payment for it. That's money Kaufman Publishing is losing by not making it available to those of us on a budget.


dsalley13

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 2nd, 2009, 8:00 pm
by dsalley13
PS:

I don't mean as a Trade Paperback. I mean a "Trade" edition hardcover. One with no limitation or the added bells and whistles of a limited printing in two editions.

dsalley13

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 2nd, 2009, 8:04 pm
by Richard Kaufman
I do not own the rights to the book or I would have reprinted it years ago. The rights are owned by the Jones family, and the various grandchildren of Carl Jones are unfortunately not in agreement on whether the book should be reprinted or not.

However, were I able to reprint the book, I certainly would never do it in a paperback edition.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 2nd, 2009, 8:50 pm
by dsalley13
Mr. Kaufman,

How can we pitch in to help you re-negotiate the re-printing. I'll write letters, start petitions, any thing it takes to bring this book back into being available for all hard working magicians. Even the poor ones like myself.


dsalley13

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 2nd, 2009, 9:04 pm
by Richard Kaufman
There is nothing you can do.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 2nd, 2009, 9:28 pm
by Dustin Stinett
Take heart: 2033 (if my math is correct) will be here before you know it.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 2nd, 2009, 9:50 pm
by Jonathan Townsend
I'm saddened and astonished they would let the book stay out of print. It's a fine example of what our literature can be and exactly the sort of book I'd be happy to find in the highschool library.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 2nd, 2009, 10:02 pm
by Dustin Stinett
It was in libraries for a while (the five volume edition was printed specifically for libraries).

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 4th, 2009, 9:19 pm
by Lee Almond
I cannot begin to say how much this book means to me. The history behind how it was written is above all given the years Hillard spent on this project. I have the reprint (Thanks RK) and no matter how broke I am I will never part with this book. My tip of the hat to departed men who made this book a reality.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 5th, 2009, 9:03 am
by 000
Regarding MUTUS, DEDIT, NOMEN, AND COCIS...........I drilled this effect into my 9 year old nephew's head and had great fun watching him slay the adults at a party

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: February 5th, 2009, 9:14 am
by Jonathan Townsend

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 1st, 2009, 9:20 pm
by dsalley13
Well, since there was "...nothing I could do...", I waited patiently and managed to snag a copy (the Kaufman trade edition) on the Magic Caf "For Sale" department. It should be here this coming Saturday.

I ordered "The Lost Notebooks of John North Hilliard" to go with my coming copy of "Greater Magic". I figured that was a given. Now I get to see and experience what you all have been talking about. I can hardly wait!


dsalley13

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 1st, 2009, 10:09 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Both Greater Magic and the Hilliard Notebooks will give again and again each time you reread them.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 2nd, 2009, 8:19 am
by Bob Farmer
I've been reading and re-reading Greater Magic since I was 12 and every time I look at it, I find something new. I have the library edition in 5 volumes, the original edition and the Kaufman edition. There is no question that the Kaufman edition is the one to have, however I'd be willing to let mine go for $25,000 U.S.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 4th, 2009, 1:52 pm
by dsalley13
WOW!!! I've never had anything that met the claims and praise as well as this book always garners and does. My eyes are already burnt out a bit from devouring everything I could read in the past 24 hours since it came (delivered: 4-3-09 just before noon).

I read a bit of the introductions and then briefly scanned the pages, being more and more amazed as I went further into the book. Then I got to "More Greater Magic" and the letters section(s) and dug in deep.

What a project. I am humbled and questioning my worthiness to even be allowed to read, much less have this book. This has to be one of the top 5, BEST books in Magic, if not "The" Best. (just my opinion....maybe not yours?)

How does one thank all that have brought this book to life and kept it available through the years? I guess my best show of thanks will be to learn deeply as I plumb all the depths of this book all that I can in the time I have left on this earth to do so.

Thank you to everyone involved, especially Richard Kaufman, for making his definitive printing of "Greater Magic" such an inspiring tool. And another great "thank you" to those many of you that suggested this book as a "must have". This would be my "Desert Island" book, as long as I had a few coconut shells and some rocks to use as loads and props. (amongst other things) :o)


dsalley13

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 4th, 2009, 4:55 pm
by Jonathan Townsend
What a project. I am humbled and questioning my worthiness to even be allowed to read, much less have this book.


It was in libraries for a while (the five volume edition was printed specifically for libraries).


Almost makes me wonder if it was removed by cheap magicians or "concerned" parents ...

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 4th, 2009, 6:53 pm
by Scott M.
I'm not a collector, so I don't know how prevalent copies of these are, but for what it's worth I browsed through a copy last night (kept behind the counter) at P.S. Books in DUMBO (Brooklyn, NY). I walked in because they had a first edition signed of "Versatile Card Magic" in the window, which I thought was odd -- you rarely see magic books in more mainstream shops. The proprietor told me he had several books from the estate of the producer Lewis Allen, and then he showed me the "Greater Magic," which I believe was priced at $500.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 4th, 2009, 7:56 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Carl Jones printed Greater Magic nine times, each an edition of 1,000 copies. So, there are 9,000 copies of his one-volume edition out there. Of those editions, the only one that has retained its value subsequent to the publication of my edition in 1994 is the first edition with dustjacket. $500 would be about right for that. All other 8 editions should sell for about $150.

There is, as has been noted, a five-volume set published for the public on crap paper. It was the poor quality of this that prompted Jones's wife not to allow the book to be reprinted again.

After she died, I was able to come to an agreement with her children. They were very happy with the edition I published, and I would like to republish it. The only problem is that Carl Jones's children are either no longer alive, or not involved, and have left it to their children, who are involved in a squabble the likes of which you can't imagine.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 4th, 2009, 8:16 pm
by Scott M.
This one was single volume, no dusk jacket, but I believe it was signed by Hugard. It had an orange or red-ish cover. I didn't ask whether it was a first edition. It might have been as the other books they had from this man's collection were.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 4th, 2009, 8:27 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Signed by Hugard is good! Every printing and edition is clearly marked on the copyright page.

(If the book is signed by Hilliard it's a fake! :) )

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 4th, 2009, 10:15 pm
by Dustin Stinett
Scott,

It could be a first edition that was sold through Holden's. Holden was able to get Hugard to sign all the copies of the first edition he sold. Every one that I have seen has been similar: "Sincerely, Jean Hugard, Dec. [date], 1938." If that's how it's signed, then you can be certain that it's a first edition and it was originally sold through Max Holden's shop.

Dustin

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: April 4th, 2009, 10:40 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Too bad the dj is missing!

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: March 1st, 2012, 8:33 am
by Q. Kumber
At a magic auction on Tuesday I bought an eigth impression edition for 15, plus a box of books for 45 that included the first three volumes of the Greater Magic Library, a first printing of the bound volume of Stars Of Magic, Magic Without Apparatus, Cliff Green's Professional Card Magic, plus 40 other books.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 18th, 2012, 8:29 pm
by Riversky
I bought my 4th. edition of Greater Magic at an estate sale for the same price marked on the inside dust cover...$10

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 18th, 2012, 9:47 pm
by Riversky
Dustin,
Who is the boy you refer to in your story?

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 18th, 2012, 10:12 pm
by Dustin Stinett
That would be me.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 19th, 2012, 5:05 pm
by Riversky
Awesome, That' what I thought.
Some great personal insight to a great magic book.
I bought my 4th. edition copy for the orginal price of $10.
Thanks,
Happy Illusions!
~Joe

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 22nd, 2012, 12:37 pm
by Riversky
I'm currently reading "More Magic".
Can anyone direct me to threads about this old nugget?
I did a search but no luck.
Thanks.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 22nd, 2012, 12:39 pm
by Jonathan Townsend
Cited it for the two coin items - one in the september 2006 article and the tabled/covered coins across work elsewhere.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 22nd, 2012, 7:16 pm
by Riversky
I'm currently reading "More Magic".
Can anyone direct me to threads about this old nugget?
I did a search but no luck.
Thanks.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 22nd, 2012, 8:18 pm
by Dustin Stinett
I cannot recall anything about this Hoffmann book on this forum. Sorry.

Dustin

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 23rd, 2012, 1:23 pm
by Riversky
I'm sorry, I ment to say Our Magic by Maskelyne and Devant.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: August 23rd, 2012, 2:32 pm
by Dustin Stinett
There have been many references to it over the years, but I cannot recall anything specifically focused on Our Magic here.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: December 31st, 2017, 5:29 pm
by Bill Mullins
Dustin Stinett wrote:Take heart: 2033 (if my math is correct) will be here before you know it.


Canadian and New Zealand copyright law extends to the life of the author(s) plus 50 years. Hilliard died in 1938. Carl Jones died in 1957. Jean Hugard died in 1959. The book is public domain in Canada, and can be freely reprinted there.

Re: Book of the Month: Greater Magic

Posted: December 31st, 2017, 6:57 pm
by performer
What a coincidence! I have been reading Greater Magic all afternoon! I consider it one of the greatest books on magic ever written. I am really pleased that Richard reprinted it. I don't imagine there was much financial gain in doing so if even any but he has done something historic and he deserves a lot of credit for it.