The Genii Forum

So, does anyone else think this book is sorely over-rated?

Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
So, does anyone else think this book is sorely over-rated?

No...

I wouldn't say sorely over-rated, that's maybe a bit too strong, although it is raved about just a little too much.

It's saving grace is that it has a couple of really great tricks that will fool lay people and magicians alike.

The first being 'Ten in a row', in which you have a spectator move cards about while you have your back turned or you could even be blindfolded. Yet remarkably you are able to tell them exactly how many cards they moved. I guarantee your audience will have a puzzled look on their faces when you hit them with this stunner.

The second is the 'Three Ace Trick', which should really be entitled the 'three ace miracle' because you could probably start a religion with this one trick. I'd be wary about performing this in 'bible belt' areas because it could be mistaken for witch craft. It's a stroke of Erdnase genius and all accomplished by a very clever display that looks so natural. It's obvious that the publishing of this gem must have really annoyed many professional gamblers and card sharks, no wonder the book was published under a false name.

I agree those are the best two tricks. They are the only ones that Vernon and Miller didn't have to improve to make usuable. They are perfect. How do you handle it when the spectator wants to look at the ten cards or asks what happened?

I have trouble with the Ace Miracle too, people always wonder why I show them three aces and then show them that the fourth one is still in the deck for a trick. I'd like to discuss this with you via email.

I also like Traveling cards" I guess I just need to practice more though because my audience always seems to suspect 'something' right after I tell them I'm going to make cards travel up my coat and I've just palmed 15 cards at once. I have a long way to go before I can appreciate this great, holy, text. I guess I'm stuck with the Klutz book of magic.

Not having the pleasure of owning any cards from the turn of the century, I'm curious to know how the cards handled and perhaps the sleights our dear friend Erdnase devised were largely the result of the material he had to work with. Given todays cards, perhaps he would have come up with alternate handlings.

One sleight I'm thinking of is the Erdnase Top Palm (first method). Perhaps the cards of the time didn't have the "spring" in them required to perform the top palm as many performers advocate today.

Thoughts? Bits of information from those who have handled cards circa 1900?

johnbodine

Jon,

I do own several decks that date to around the turn of the century and the ones that are in the best shape appear to be very close in terms of card magic properties to today's cards. Of course, the finish has improved a bit since then, but the "snap" of the cards hasn't changed much.

As for specific moves, I would guess that strike seconds may have been a bit harder, and I can appreciate why Erdnase used the third-finger pushout that he designed for his bottom deal.

I just performed a diagonal palm shift with a 100 year old (at least) deck of Tigers that slid into palm nicely.

The rest of the moves seem to work just fine with old cards, although I must admit the cards I own tend to be "newer" 100 year old cards. If I allowed one of these decks to deteriorate a bit I might find that they became almost unusable.

Jason

By the way, although the site is down at the moment, there is a comprehensive website of playing cards for magicians at the address below. I think we have over 75 different back designs on display, with more to come.

http://www.nls.physics.ucsb.edu/~nathan ... index.html

Jason:

Nice cards.

--Randy Campbell

Nice thread.

Jason,

Thanks for the information on the older cards. I imagined that all the cards from the turn of the century would be square corners, single ply, poor quality. But as I've learned from your post as well as a private email it seems as though the cards were of equal quality to todays cards, or perhaps even of a higher quality.

I guess I can't use the cards as my excuse anymore. :)

johnbodine

Volker Huber of Germany, who owns the rights to the works of Hofzinser (having purchased everything from Ottokar Fischer's grandaughter) has many cards, gimmicked and normal, which belonged to Hofzinser. I have handled a deck which Hofzinser performed with extensively. It handled as well as any good deck made within the last 20 years: smooth and soft, with a good snap when you need it. The cards also had a finish that allowed them to fan and slide over one another with ease--which explains how he did his culling without having to clip the card. He simply pulled it as we do now (and as is explained in Kartenkunste).
In my collecting of material by Theodore DeLand, I have handled a number of decks from the period of about 1900 to 1920 or so. Many were the equal of today's cards.

As a side note...

FINALLY got myself a real life copy of The Expert at the Card Table. Until now I've been living with just the online freebie.

Thanks to Ebay, I'm quite possibly the happiest man in Australia right now!! :)

I recently received the wonderful 2002 Facsimile of Erdnase from Canick Booksellers. I have been reading it over and over. I don't know why I waited so long to get into this book. :confused: At least I am finally getting straightened out. :)

Originally posted by Sean Piper:
As a side note...

FINALLY got myself a real life copy of The Expert at the Card Table. Until now I've been living with just the online freebie.

Thanks to Ebay, I'm quite possibly the happiest man in Australia right now!! :)

Would be interested in knowing what you make of expert at the card table, but also am left wondering what you got off ebay that made you so happy ;-)

Andy

60 years ago at age 13,I bought Erdnase and spent a Summeralone upstate NY (Saratoga) as Bus Boy and had plenty of time. The first tricks I ever learned were from Erdnase, including the superb "Cards Up the Sleeve". If the 1-10 trick is the one I think it is (move cards from one end to other) then I already knew it, but am amazed to discover that I don't recall the "3 Aces". Did I really skip something in that book?
That is one of the top values of Kaaufmann's Forum and these postings; other minds, other views, other information---great reminders!!

I was trying to imagine what might make someone think that Erdnase would be 'vastly overrated.' I am not trying to be critical, just to understand. I have a lot of books, and to tell you the truth, I would be hard pressed to pick a 'desert island' book. However, if I were to pick one book above all others that I wished not to disappear it would be Erdnase. I know that doesn't make a whole lot of sense even at 2:40 a.m. but it is the book that feels the most necessary to me. I would not want to have done without this one. I don't say that because of the tricks or in spite of the tricks, I just believe that given what the book is, it would be hard to have done it better. I am thankful for this book, as it is probably the closest thing that I have ever had to The Professor, and it has never yelled at me or gotten impatient with me '8)

Like "Anonymous" I bought my copy of Erdnase at age 13 except that it was 70 years ago. One of the prime motivating factors in buying THIS book was that it was the ONLY book I could afford at that time (25 cents).
I'm convinced that one of the prime reasons for the early popularity of Erdnase was not endorsements but it's ready and CHEAP availability (Aside from its remarkable value as an instruction manual).At the time neither I nor any of my magic friends had ever heard of Dai Vernon - I had seen his name in GENII once or twice but didn't know he was a "star" until years later when I came back from serving in the army.
At any rate, Erdnase was THE basic training manual for many fledgling magicians in days gone by.