The Genii Forum

Hello all, I'm new around these forums and hoping for some guidance. I've always been somewhat naturally gifted at reading body language and facial expressions, but that is the extent of my ability. I'm interested in learning more about the real type of mentalism: cold reading, body language cues, NLP and such things, but everywhere I look seems to be dominated by what is called mentalism but seems more like magic illusions and parlor tricks. (i.e. the famous watch, wallet and coin trick which uses a planted partner) I have no interest in this type of information as I'm not a showman and using tricks like that bores me to tears.

I am curious if some seasoned mentalists out there could point out some good books for actual psychology-influenced material that I might study. And also separate some fact from fiction: Is 'hypnosis' a real effect that can be achieved? Must they be incredibly dim-witted for something like that to work? Do famous cold readers mainly use a bunch of audience plants or is there more merit to what their doing?

Thanks for your time.

You should check out Ian Rowland, and especially his book The Full Facts book of Cold Reading.

You may have to search long and hard to find "real mentalism", whatever that might be.

I would suggest taking a look at cognitive science, an interdisciplinary scientific field trying to understand the human mind and its processes. The progress has been enormous in just the last ten years. As always, Wikipedia is good for the basic facts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_science

and "How the Mind Works" by Steven Pinker is a fun and easy-going introduction to the field.

therealness wrote:Hello all, I'm new around these forums and hoping for some guidance. I've always been somewhat naturally gifted at reading body language and facial expressions, but that is the extent of my ability. I'm interested in learning more about the real type of mentalism: cold reading, body language cues, NLP and such things, but everywhere I look seems to be dominated by what is called mentalism but seems more like magic illusions and parlor tricks. (i.e. the famous watch, wallet and coin trick which uses a planted partner) I have no interest in this type of information as I'm not a showman and using tricks like that bores me to tears.

I am curious if some seasoned mentalists out there could point out some good books for actual psychology-influenced material that I might study. And also separate some fact from fiction: Is 'hypnosis' a real effect that can be achieved? Must they be incredibly dim-witted for something like that to work? Do famous cold readers mainly use a bunch of audience plants or is there more merit to what their doing?

Thanks for your time.

You do realise that when magicians like Derren Brown say they are using NLP and suggestion etc they are lying and just doing a standard magic trick and pretending it is something more?

Jon Elion wrote:You should check out Ian Rowland, and especially his book The Full Facts book of Cold Reading.

Stefan Nilsson wrote:You may have to search long and hard to find "real mentalism", whatever that might be.

I would suggest taking a look at cognitive science, an interdisciplinary scientific field trying to understand the human mind and its processes. The progress has been enormous in just the last ten years. As always, Wikipedia is good for the basic facts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_science

and "How the Mind Works" by Steven Pinker is a fun and easy-going introduction to the field.

Thanks for the suggestions you guys, I will definitely check those books out!

mrgoat wrote:You do realise that when magicians like Derren Brown say they are using NLP and suggestion etc they are lying and just doing a standard magic trick and pretending it is something more?

Yes indeed, I realize that most of it is simply fiction. I am more curious how much is actually possible without the tricks and illusions and the best way to learn about such things.

Then attending the Genii Bash this October in Orlando and seeing Uri Geller talk about that subject is just what the psychic orders!

http://geniiconvention.com/

There is a little known but very powerful and revealing book on the origin of Mental Magic, It is called Mind Power The Secret of Mental Magic. An updated version of that book is entitled Heart and Soul: The Law of Being. Check out the blog at;

http://heartandsoulthelawofbeing.com/

Just checked the link:

"At one with the Universal Mind we become co-creators along with it, fulfilling our lifes mission, awakening consciousness and nurturing the spiritual growth of others."

Yeah, but what's the gaff?

Bob Farmer wrote: Yeah, but what's the gaff?

Lysergic acid diethylamide

"Deteriorata" - National Lampoon

You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here.
Deteriorata. Deteriorata.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste,
And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.
Rotate your tires.
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself,
And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.
Know what to kiss, and when.
Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do.
Wherever possible, put people on hold.
Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment,
and despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

Remember The Pueblo.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.
Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.
Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you -
That lemon on your left, for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet.
Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face.
Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan.
And let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
Hire people with hooks.
For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken.
Take heart in the bedeepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.
And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot,
It could only be worse in Milwaukee.

You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not,
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Therefore, make peace with your god,
Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
The world continues to deteriorate.
Give up!

Dope. [ as in nice ]

Going back to the original question, I seem to recall that in one of T.A. Waters' books, he gave a list of (non-magic) titles every mentalist should read. Anyone remember these?

Ness,

If you are looking for the real sort of thing (based on psychology), you should look at the work of Richard Wiseman (who consults with Andy Nyman and Derren Brown). You may also be interested in the following anecdote which I have copied and pasted from my blog rather than typed out all over again (I hope you will forgive me this laziness):

Well, I had a rather fun experience the other day after one of my shows. I had been approached by a group of people, each eager to ask me questions.

One of those in the group was a young lady, and inevitably the question she posed was along the lines of "How did you do" such and such. I explained to her that a lot of what I did during that particular experiment relied on my ability to pay careful attention to eye access cues and body language. If she was skeptical of my answer initially, the disbelief evaporated a moment later, as I had a wonderful opportunity to provide her with an impromptu demonstration of the ability to read body language to discern thoughts.

As the young lady came into the room, I noticed that she had been accompanied by a friend, who remained in the same spot at the back despite the fact that her more inquisitive friend pushed closer to me. I also paid close attention to the torso of each person. Both were fully facing me, but an examination of the feet told a story all their own. The young lady who was quizzing me had both her feet pointing directly at me, while her friend, positioned a yard or so to the rear, had one foot pointed at me, and the other at the door.

The proximity and foot cues of each party allowed me to infer details of what was going on in the mind of each person. When pressed for an example, therefore, of my assertions that I could read body language, I smiled and spoke to the young lady in front of me.

"Well, for instance, I can tell by your strong eye contact, the full exposure of your torso, and the placement of your feet that you are genuinely intrigued with your interaction with me, and could continue chatting with me for some time. By contrast, your friend, in the green shirt... (at this point, I gestured toward the young lady in the back)your friend is interested in what we are saying, but has more pressing matters to attend to and is anxious to leave. She is, however, too polite to hurry you along. As she has been kind enough to offer you a lift, I believe you ought to get going."

There were about a dozen people circled around me at this point, yet no face was more astounded than that of the young lady in the green shirt, as she confirmed that she was indeed offering her friend a ride and was in a hurry to get somewhere.

This is an entertaining sidenote to what was a very enjoyable performance. But I tell it so that those interested in the methods I employ may have some insight regarding these methods. I wish to direct any interested party to one of the best texts I have read on the subject of body language - "What Every Body Is Thinking" by the incomparable Joe Navarro.

As the example above illustrates, I can say honestly that the knowledge this book contains has allowed me to literally deconstruct a person's thought process, reading the signals that they didn't even know they were sending, and astounding them by then revealing to them what they believed to be their private thoughts held in their minds alone.

Remember, watch carefully, listen closely, and you can discern more about those around you than you would have ever believed possible!

Best,

Atlas