Ian Rowland on cold reading?

Instead of mentally projecting your mentalism thoughts, type them here.
Guest

Re: Ian Rowland on cold reading?

Postby Guest » October 22nd, 2003, 11:27 am

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
Originally posted by Ford Kross:

For example, prove to me I didn't live before this life. You can't, no wires or mirrors

Ford
You might want to read the following before being so quick to use such fallacious "logic".

[b]Argument from Ignorance
(argumentum ad ignorantiam)


Definition:
Many things I believe in have no proof! G-d , truth, beauty, love etc. I could go on but you get my drift.
Could my beliefs be wrong, sure. So could yours.
I've seen the approach to science change since I was in college. UI was taught, the scientist was a disinterested observer ,that didn't affect the experiment Karl Pribham says that's no longer true

But granting, you are correct and my beliefs are wrong. So what!
Must I let the science nazis determine my beliefs. Not in A free country. Or are you against freedom?

In either case, wwe've strayed from my point. Most psychics don't use magicians methods. In 1980
I appeared at a psychic convention with Uri Geller
Geller's performance was poorly attended. Why? Because the New Age movement had little interest in seeing some one bend things with their mind
They commented, how would that help them achieve the g-d head
So when you expose mentalism methods you hurt the wrong people
from
Ford


Arguments of this form assume that since something has not been proven false, it is therefore true. Conversely, such an argument may assume that since something has not been proven true, it is therefore false. (This is a special case of a false dilemma, since it assumes that all propositions must either be known to be true or known to be false.) As Davis writes, "Lack of proof is not proof." (p. 59)

Examples:
(i) Since you cannot prove that ghosts do not exist, they must exist.
I could easily claim to own an invisible pink unicorn that only I can see or sense in any way.

Prove that I don't. :) [/b]

Guest

Re: Ian Rowland on cold reading?

Postby Guest » October 22nd, 2003, 11:44 am

Steve V wrote
Ford, you seem to have justified, in your mind, the carrying on of readings for folks. I do not believe that you nor anyone else is psychic and as the 'psychics' are the ones making the claim of its existance it is up to them to provide evidence, real evidence by the way, if it being an actual ability. Last night a woman behind me at the grocer told the clerk that it would 'cost $400 to do her chart'. Being the helpful fellow I am I offered to do it for $200 and it would be just as fact based as the womans. I later spoke to the young lady and asked why she wanted someone to see into her future and she said she wanted to know 'what to do in life'. I figured that was a set up for fraud and told her that I believed it to be a fraud and not to waste her money. Had she said she lost a parent or child recently then I would have shown some compassion and indicated not to do but also knowing that these frauds often do provide comfert to those folks. I do find it interesting that the frauds/psychics claim to be like a counseler but they charge many times what a counseler charges. Nice, real nice.
Steve V

I only have to prove my value to those that come to me, not to you. If I don't prove valuable as a counsellor, they don't come back, they tell their friends I go out of business. My claims are only extra-ordinary to you. I could make comparisons with people who go to Church for help. But I intuit, you have the same feelings about most religions as you do about psychic readers

Now as to fees, first the market place determines fees. If I charge too much. No clients. To little ,not respected. And I think in my area, readers get between two and three hundred dollars an hour. That's about what other counsellors charge, not much much more. How much do you pay your counsellor?
from
Ford

Guest

Re: Ian Rowland on cold reading?

Postby Guest » October 22nd, 2003, 12:14 pm

I don't go to a counselor, don't have a need for one. Like I said, you have found an angle that justifies it to you, that is the line that folks have to get across. Most can't or won't cross the line.

"I could make comparisons with people who go to Church for help. But I intuit, you have the same feelings about most religions as you do about psychic readers"

Wrong again (you are not real good, perhaps Mark Lewis could sell you one of those kits Rudy put out). I think that the standard churches provide a social setting for people and fulfill a need they have. They typically offer a safe and positive environment for youth compared to the mall or whereever teens hang out. Also your standard church doesn't charge you to attend, they would like a bit o' cash to keep things going but to my knowledge, with one exception, they don't go knocking at your door asking for the 10% they believe should be going their way.

As I said, I can see why those who suffered a loss may go to a fra... I mean psychic, for comfert, but if they keep trying to get 'em back for more 'readings' then it's gone past comfert and moved into skinning.

Keep skinning the suckers, even those tossing the monte justified what they were doing.
Steve V

Guest

Re: Ian Rowland on cold reading?

Postby Guest » October 22nd, 2003, 12:44 pm

Steve V writes
I don't go to a counselor, don't have a need for one. Like I said, you have found an angle that justifies it to you, that is the line that folks have to get across. Most can't or won't cross the line.

Many troubled people, feel they don't need help. But if you only take your own counsel, how come you stated psychic counsellors, charge much more than other counsellors? Intuition? Troubled friends?


"I could make comparisons with people who go to Church for help. But I intuit, you have the same feelings about most religions as you do about psychic readers"

Wrong again (you are not real good, perhaps Mark Lewis could sell you one of those kits Rudy put out). I think that the standard churches provide a social setting for people and fulfill a need they have. They typically offer a safe and positive environment for youth compared to the mall or whereever teens hang out. Also your standard church doesn't charge you to attend, they would like a bit o' cash to keep things going but to my knowledge, with one exception, they don't go knocking at your door asking for the 10% they believe should be going their way.

Am i wrong, you mentioned nothing of the spiritual values of the churches, only positive social values. Possibly psychic fairs offer the same social value. Doesn't charge to attend, obviously what ever church you attend doesn't pass the collection plate. BTW no psychics knocking on my door offering service. Do they in yours? And Mzarc Lewis' course, Mr Lewis is a self admitted, theif, liar and swindler, who doesn't believe in what he does. I do!

As I said, I can see why those who suffered a loss may go to a fra... I mean psychic, for comfert, but if they keep trying to get 'em back for more 'readings' then it's gone past comfert and moved into skinning.

And is this a standard practice. Jonhn Edwards, Sylvia Brown et al are boiked years in advance. Doubt they need to get folks to keep coming back
So where are you getting your information? Collective unconscious?

Keep skinning the suckers, even those tossing the monte justified what they were doing.
Steve V

Yes many self proclaimed skeptics as well
from
Ford

Guest

Re: Ian Rowland on cold reading?

Postby Guest » October 22nd, 2003, 4:11 pm

Nice turning of the statements there Ford. An excellent example how a fra...I mean psychic, can change their miss into a 'hit'. Well done lad! As for Mr. Lewis, to his credit he doesn't believe what he's selling, it's the same product as you. I believe that ignorance of the law is no excuse. If someone robs a bank and truely believes it isn't wrong and not against the law it doesn't mean it's okay, it means they are insane. You mention Sylvia (who lives about 20 minutes from where I sit) and John Edward having bookings far in advance. Does that prove anything? Of course not, it proves only that there are enough fools out there to fill the pockets of many thieves. An unknowing victim is no less a victim.

You know, I respect Mark Lewis because he admits what he's doing is 'entertainment'. As for your belief that you have real powers, all I can say is all the belief in the world can't make the sun rise in the South and set in the North. Oh, since you are motivated with your desire to help people may I suggest you contact James Randi and take the challenge to show you have...the POWER? By doing so you will 1) Show that psychic ability exist and thus bring those in need of help out of the shadows and 2) You can use the award money to give readings to the poor. Of course, if you can't prove it....
Steve V

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Ian Rowland on cold reading?

Postby Dustin Stinett » October 22nd, 2003, 5:20 pm

That's enough of that - I think I'll lock this thread now.

Dustin


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