John Edward, Crossing Over
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Morning, Doc...Thanks for the kind and sincere comments...
....I don't want to turn Richard's board into a chat, so why don't you pop over to M&I, Chat Thread VI, and we can coffee together....
opie
....I don't want to turn Richard's board into a chat, so why don't you pop over to M&I, Chat Thread VI, and we can coffee together....
opie
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Bill Cushman
- Posts: 29
- Joined: February 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: FL
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Opie and DrAmazo,
If i'm misreading the intent of your (Opie's) words, i apologize. However (oh boy, here i go again), even Opie's response saying he wasn't taking issue with Andy had a quality sometimes referred to as "damning with faint praise."
I'm referring to the statement, "He obviously is a young man of average intelligence who has found what he believes to be his lifetime vocation". I am very attuned to language as part of my profession and personal interests and that was my gut reaction when i read that line. If i'm being over sensitive, or over protective, again, i apologize.
If you aren't aware that your comments may be interpreted in the way i have, maybe it will help to know. Not that i want everyone obsessing about being PC all the time as that would be a drag too.
As for CB: I have, and only in the last few days, ever had any email interaction with him and have found him civil and helpful. I will say, based on my readings of his many posts, that he is passionate about areas that i can't agree with, on a personal or professional level. So what, i still find passionate people fascinating and often, as is the case with CB, intellectually stimulating. All the controversy over his beliefs as a case in point.
You ask how i would handle a statement from a client about believing in a "middle ground," when it comes to psychic phenomena and my response is, and always will be, RESPECTFULLY. This has happened on more than one occasion. It gets back to the idea of not always agreeing with what someone has to say but defending their right to say it, to their own opinion.
In my own professional work, another similar situation i can think of is when i have had to deal with clients who hold non-mainstream religious beliefs (very common in South Florida). Again, i may not agree, but still respect their world view (with, admittedly some personally biased excptions. e.g. views that endorse harming others). Come to think of it, i deal, as an agnostic at best, with a similar dynamic when interacting with folks who hold mainstream religious beliefs. I don't have to agree, but (other than the already mentioned exceptions)i strive to maintain respect. This has allowed me the experience of a Catholic priest as a close friend for many years. I have very good friends and dear family with diametrically opposed political/relgiious beliefs but this doesn't have to interfere with our relationships.
Andy and i have debated/discussed many similar points. I label myself as a disbeliever in psychic phenomena, though indicated that i'd like to be proven wrong as it would make for a more interesting world. Andy says this makes me a skeptic rather than a disbeliever, but on that distinction, I continue to disbelieve!
So this should make my views of JE pretty self-explanatory. I don't buy him as real for a minute (I suspect CB might suggest i don't have the experience or personal contact with JE to venture such a firm opinion. If so, this is another area we wouldn't agree on) and i think playing on peoples's grief, as i percieve JE as doing, is reprehensible. And i can already hear some "true believers" and maybe even some skeptics, leveling similar accusations at my profession. That's grist for another post, another topic board.
Two last points and i'll bow out: I'm glad to hear from DrAmazo that Opie has respect for Andy. That's what was getting lost and prompted my "intervention."
And, lastly, i wouldn't be in my line of work if i believed anyone is "beyond help." This belief becomes entirely self-fullfilling. By the way Craig, if you are reading this, that last was in no way directed toward you but only again toward asking Opie to reflect on his belief systems and biases. That should do it for now.
If i'm misreading the intent of your (Opie's) words, i apologize. However (oh boy, here i go again), even Opie's response saying he wasn't taking issue with Andy had a quality sometimes referred to as "damning with faint praise."
I'm referring to the statement, "He obviously is a young man of average intelligence who has found what he believes to be his lifetime vocation". I am very attuned to language as part of my profession and personal interests and that was my gut reaction when i read that line. If i'm being over sensitive, or over protective, again, i apologize.
If you aren't aware that your comments may be interpreted in the way i have, maybe it will help to know. Not that i want everyone obsessing about being PC all the time as that would be a drag too.
As for CB: I have, and only in the last few days, ever had any email interaction with him and have found him civil and helpful. I will say, based on my readings of his many posts, that he is passionate about areas that i can't agree with, on a personal or professional level. So what, i still find passionate people fascinating and often, as is the case with CB, intellectually stimulating. All the controversy over his beliefs as a case in point.
You ask how i would handle a statement from a client about believing in a "middle ground," when it comes to psychic phenomena and my response is, and always will be, RESPECTFULLY. This has happened on more than one occasion. It gets back to the idea of not always agreeing with what someone has to say but defending their right to say it, to their own opinion.
In my own professional work, another similar situation i can think of is when i have had to deal with clients who hold non-mainstream religious beliefs (very common in South Florida). Again, i may not agree, but still respect their world view (with, admittedly some personally biased excptions. e.g. views that endorse harming others). Come to think of it, i deal, as an agnostic at best, with a similar dynamic when interacting with folks who hold mainstream religious beliefs. I don't have to agree, but (other than the already mentioned exceptions)i strive to maintain respect. This has allowed me the experience of a Catholic priest as a close friend for many years. I have very good friends and dear family with diametrically opposed political/relgiious beliefs but this doesn't have to interfere with our relationships.
Andy and i have debated/discussed many similar points. I label myself as a disbeliever in psychic phenomena, though indicated that i'd like to be proven wrong as it would make for a more interesting world. Andy says this makes me a skeptic rather than a disbeliever, but on that distinction, I continue to disbelieve!
So this should make my views of JE pretty self-explanatory. I don't buy him as real for a minute (I suspect CB might suggest i don't have the experience or personal contact with JE to venture such a firm opinion. If so, this is another area we wouldn't agree on) and i think playing on peoples's grief, as i percieve JE as doing, is reprehensible. And i can already hear some "true believers" and maybe even some skeptics, leveling similar accusations at my profession. That's grist for another post, another topic board.
Two last points and i'll bow out: I'm glad to hear from DrAmazo that Opie has respect for Andy. That's what was getting lost and prompted my "intervention."
And, lastly, i wouldn't be in my line of work if i believed anyone is "beyond help." This belief becomes entirely self-fullfilling. By the way Craig, if you are reading this, that last was in no way directed toward you but only again toward asking Opie to reflect on his belief systems and biases. That should do it for now.
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Thank you....opie
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Guest
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
In regards to finding someone older to edit my books... Andy asked if he could as have others... I have allowed others (much older and more experineced, not to mention "noted" authors and contributors of their own right) read the bulk of my materials. Both Andy's have been exceptionally supportive of me and voiced (more than once) appreciation for my contributions and graciousness.
The "middle Ground" situation, as I've presented it, has been misplaced by some... probably to add to a negative focus on me vs. the true implication of what I've said. WHICH (for the 100th time) IS THAT THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THE EXTREMES OF BELIEF AND DENIAL. I'm stating that both sides are right as well as wrong and when the egomaniacs from either extream learn to pull their head out of their anus, they may be able to see this and stop finding an excuse to perpetuate grief and ill feelings in the world and see how to more effectively address a common concern shared by both, the believer and the skeptic e.g. the con-artists.
I'm amazed at how many times I've had to say this for all you educated and aware individuals. Just goes to prove the more paper people have framed and hanging in their office the less common sense and realistic perspective they tend to have. I know that's an old hillbilly way of looking at things, but dang! Do you guys ever prove the point by picking at the scab vs. seeing how a greater good can be accomplished.
The other part that amazes me is how, as best I can tell, every person seeking to crucify me HASN'T READ my books let alone my articles @ Visions. Nor has anyone taken the time to visit those other forums Opie was asked to leave, to find out why. I'm amazed he's still at M&L I know for fact Bryan got several Emails about the bullies of his forum and how many people involved in Mentalism & Bizarre magic were harassed so much and so mercilessly in under 24 hours of posting, that they wanted nothing to do with the group ever again... Opie has been chief bulley there for at least two years I'm aware of... I have the Emails from those that have complained and asked me where they should meet at on the web to avoid such.
Like you Opie I've been around... not quite as long, but most certainly a life packed with associations and ties to some of the greatest people ever associated with this art. Many of my contributions to the trade are on stage world wide... granted, some of that involves shared credit, but it's there and it's known. My books must have some kind of value in them... they're selling. I've also had some of the biggest names in this business that do Reading work beg me not to share certain aspects of my work because it is so good and part of a sound philosophy. Bottom line, I'm far more impressed by this aspect of my reality vs. your attempts in this forum to paint me as some kind of perversed preditor and a taint on society.
Loki is right... I'm very passionate about my beliefs and the right my fellow human being has to know a similar passion for their own testimony and experiences. Just as some of you want to see my position as crap, worthless, stupid, etc. So those of "faith" might see you and even "pray for you" that someday your lives might open enough to allow you the grace to witness a genuine miracle and have absolutely no doubt or ability to deny such. If I'm wrong for believing my idea of God is big enough and vaste enough to allow such things to happen... I'm sorry. But I wont negate my faith in such a thing on any level and I will not sit back and allow any bully to impose their opinion into the lives of those that believe, when that opinion demeans and belittles or worse, negates the possability.
Believe what you will... but very few of those posting here KNOW ME and the balance seem guilty of "Contempt, prior to investigation"... :rolleyes:
The "middle Ground" situation, as I've presented it, has been misplaced by some... probably to add to a negative focus on me vs. the true implication of what I've said. WHICH (for the 100th time) IS THAT THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THE EXTREMES OF BELIEF AND DENIAL. I'm stating that both sides are right as well as wrong and when the egomaniacs from either extream learn to pull their head out of their anus, they may be able to see this and stop finding an excuse to perpetuate grief and ill feelings in the world and see how to more effectively address a common concern shared by both, the believer and the skeptic e.g. the con-artists.
I'm amazed at how many times I've had to say this for all you educated and aware individuals. Just goes to prove the more paper people have framed and hanging in their office the less common sense and realistic perspective they tend to have. I know that's an old hillbilly way of looking at things, but dang! Do you guys ever prove the point by picking at the scab vs. seeing how a greater good can be accomplished.
The other part that amazes me is how, as best I can tell, every person seeking to crucify me HASN'T READ my books let alone my articles @ Visions. Nor has anyone taken the time to visit those other forums Opie was asked to leave, to find out why. I'm amazed he's still at M&L I know for fact Bryan got several Emails about the bullies of his forum and how many people involved in Mentalism & Bizarre magic were harassed so much and so mercilessly in under 24 hours of posting, that they wanted nothing to do with the group ever again... Opie has been chief bulley there for at least two years I'm aware of... I have the Emails from those that have complained and asked me where they should meet at on the web to avoid such.
Like you Opie I've been around... not quite as long, but most certainly a life packed with associations and ties to some of the greatest people ever associated with this art. Many of my contributions to the trade are on stage world wide... granted, some of that involves shared credit, but it's there and it's known. My books must have some kind of value in them... they're selling. I've also had some of the biggest names in this business that do Reading work beg me not to share certain aspects of my work because it is so good and part of a sound philosophy. Bottom line, I'm far more impressed by this aspect of my reality vs. your attempts in this forum to paint me as some kind of perversed preditor and a taint on society.
Loki is right... I'm very passionate about my beliefs and the right my fellow human being has to know a similar passion for their own testimony and experiences. Just as some of you want to see my position as crap, worthless, stupid, etc. So those of "faith" might see you and even "pray for you" that someday your lives might open enough to allow you the grace to witness a genuine miracle and have absolutely no doubt or ability to deny such. If I'm wrong for believing my idea of God is big enough and vaste enough to allow such things to happen... I'm sorry. But I wont negate my faith in such a thing on any level and I will not sit back and allow any bully to impose their opinion into the lives of those that believe, when that opinion demeans and belittles or worse, negates the possability.
Believe what you will... but very few of those posting here KNOW ME and the balance seem guilty of "Contempt, prior to investigation"... :rolleyes:
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Thank you Craig....It is so nice to know that there are people like you collecting my memorabilia....opie
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Guest
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Craig Browning wrote:
I am shocked that you would stoop so low as to scare young kids into using drugs. Perhaps your own exoteric experiences involving L.S.D. induced hallucinations of impenetrable fog cubes in Golden Gate Park have jaded you to the point where you must drive Americas youth to drug use. I would go so far as to assert that it might be better to scare such children AWAY from drugs. Is nothing sacred?
Craig,I've done some rather "bold" programs with the intention of scaring the hell out of young people deep into drugs...
I am shocked that you would stoop so low as to scare young kids into using drugs. Perhaps your own exoteric experiences involving L.S.D. induced hallucinations of impenetrable fog cubes in Golden Gate Park have jaded you to the point where you must drive Americas youth to drug use. I would go so far as to assert that it might be better to scare such children AWAY from drugs. Is nothing sacred?
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Guest
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Hi Craig, it appears that M&I is not the only forum that has bullies as you so put for anyone that disagrees with you.
What is that saying? "it is best to remain quiet and thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt". tch,tch.
:confused: Gibby
What is that saying? "it is best to remain quiet and thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt". tch,tch.
:confused: Gibby
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Gibby, that is not nice.....Craig has his beliefs, and I say okay to that; he has a right to be wrong...Unfortunately, he wants to inflict his beliefs on young people at a huge price.
The good news is that he will probably never finish that $300 book....It is probably also true that Andy told him it is not ready for prime time yet...
It is absolutely true that my friend at MSN did not shut down any of his buddy's e mails; I asked him to just kind of mess up their e mail a little....(That is a joke; I do not know anybody at MSN...hehehe)
But, joking aside, I am not guilty of anything Craig has accused me of, except holding in contempt people who prey on others with BS; who make up things about people in order to get them expelled from a public forum; who write long, boring posts which a third grader can tell is just crap. MSN and deleted e mail indeed! I would like to know where they got those stories.....
I will be willing to offer proof that Craig has attempted to sell to our unsuspecting youth a $300 book which he does not have, if he will prove that I somehow got somebody at MSN to shut down anybody's e mail.....(I really would like to know how to do that, however...hehehe)
I am really tired of this stuff, but I really do not like to be lied about....
opie
The good news is that he will probably never finish that $300 book....It is probably also true that Andy told him it is not ready for prime time yet...
It is absolutely true that my friend at MSN did not shut down any of his buddy's e mails; I asked him to just kind of mess up their e mail a little....(That is a joke; I do not know anybody at MSN...hehehe)
But, joking aside, I am not guilty of anything Craig has accused me of, except holding in contempt people who prey on others with BS; who make up things about people in order to get them expelled from a public forum; who write long, boring posts which a third grader can tell is just crap. MSN and deleted e mail indeed! I would like to know where they got those stories.....
I will be willing to offer proof that Craig has attempted to sell to our unsuspecting youth a $300 book which he does not have, if he will prove that I somehow got somebody at MSN to shut down anybody's e mail.....(I really would like to know how to do that, however...hehehe)
I am really tired of this stuff, but I really do not like to be lied about....
opie
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Jim Maloney_dup1
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
I think that's actually what he meant, David -- scaring them AWAY from drugs. Let me try to rephrase it for him (Craig, feel free to beat me if I'm wrong on this...aw heck, you'll probably beat me anyway. ;) ): He's done some programs for young kids who are deep into drugs with the intention of scaring the crap out of 'em and making them realize how stupid they're being.Originally posted by David L.:
Craig Browning wrote:Craig,I've done some rather "bold" programs with the intention of scaring the hell out of young people deep into drugs...
I am shocked that you would stoop so low as to scare young kids into using drugs. Perhaps your own exoteric experiences involving L.S.D. induced hallucinations of impenetrable fog cubes in Golden Gate Park have jaded you to the point where you must drive Americas youth to drug use. I would go so far as to assert that it might be better to scare such children AWAY from drugs. Is nothing sacred?
Personally, I don't think Craig's the type to try and make others get into drugs...
-Jim
PS - I just went back and read Craig's post that you were quoting, and noticed that you chose to completely ignore the rest of his statement:
I think that it's pretty durn clear what his intentions were.my actions, though questionable in some people's books, pushed the "right" buttons on those kids to get them out of that "danger" field, off the drugs and back into a positive life flow.
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Guest
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Jim -
My bad. Truth be told, I was just itching to use the phrase "L.S.D. induced hallucinations of impenetrable fog cubes".
My bad. Truth be told, I was just itching to use the phrase "L.S.D. induced hallucinations of impenetrable fog cubes".
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Jim Maloney_dup1
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Heehee...no prob, David.
-Jim
-Jim
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Guest
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Sorry Opie,sorry Craig.I'm washing my mouth out with soap as we speak.
Gibby
Gibby
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Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27058
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: John Edward, Crossing Over
Folks, I think this thread has run its course. Let's devote our thoughts to something ... interesting?
Topic closed.
Topic closed.
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