memorized deck

[Brian Marks]

with any luck, Mike wont publish it or hint it. everyone should put their creativity to the hill and come up with some amazing original routines of our own.

[David Penn]

Topic: memorized deck
Brian Marks
Member
Member # 109

posted June 03, 2002 03:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
with any luck, Mike wont publish it or hint it. everyone should put their creativity to the hill and come up with some amazing original routines of our own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 204 | From: NYC | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged

I agree with Brian. I have no desire to know anything about the best trick ever invented with a memorized deck. I also have no desire to do an invisible pass an undetectable bottom deal or earn as much money as David Copperfield.

[KenAbbott]

Speaking of Jazzing, does anyone have a top
five list of cards that are usually selected?

Mike...What actions do you take or what patter do you usually use at that moment when you have to look at the deck to make the estimation? I am not concerned about the glimpse needed to verify that I was close with my cut as I use an all around square up for that.

[Q. Kumber]

As a user of the Aronson stack, I was intrigued to watch Tamariz reveal his stack on his video tape. I put it together but could not spot any particular order or systems built into it. I have been told it is easy to get into stacked order from new deck order.

Can anyone point out the advantages of the Tamariz stack?

[Jim Maloney_dup1]

I can't give all the advantages on his stack -- when's his book gonna be out in English, btw? -- but I do know that there are several poker hands built into it, as well as bridge hands. I'd be willing to bet you can spell certain cards as well, but I can't say for sure. You can find some of the poker/bridge deals on the A-1 All Stars, Vol 3 tape, which contains his Routine in Major D, using the memorized deck.

-Jim

[Brian Marks]

Finding out more about the Tamiriz stack was my goal as I already know the major advantages of the Aronson stack. I didnt want to put the work in of learning one stack only to realize the other one might be better for me personally. In the end I dont think it really matters, most of the tricks I find myself wanting to do are stack independant.

[Brad Jeffers]

Skinner has a brief but interesting section on the memorized deck, in "Classic Sampler". One of his ideas was to memorize a deck after four or five faro shuffles. With this, you are able to break open a fresh pack, openly stack it via the faros, proceed with one or two memorized deck effects, and then finish with an effect he called The Monkey's Paw, where with a few more faros you restore the cards to new deck order. With other memorized deck systems, certain effects are "built into" the stack - poker deals for example. I am wondering if there are any hidden effects built into a four or five faro stack? Not intentionally built in of course, but there just the same? "Naturally" built in, you might say. I wouldn't be suprised if there are. It's something to explore.

[Guest]

i dont any memorized deck routines but i have messed with the aronson stack. unfortunately i am just not good at phonetics. but there is a stack that you can literally learn in about 30min that is not phonetics based. its by charles gauci out of australia. saw his lecture and he blew us away with his stack routines and blew us away again with how easy it was to learn. again, when i sayw 30min i'm not exagerating. you will know 1/4 (13 cards)of the deck positions in the first minute. you might want to give it a try.

[Guest]

Mike (Close that is)

Curious:

Do you still use the Aronson stack?

is that the only stack you use?

[Michael Close]

Hi Doug:

I use the memorized deck all the time, and the stack I use is Aronson's.

Simon once made an interesting comment to me. He said that the most useful stack you will use is the _second_ one you memorize. When you first use a stack you don't really know what you want out of it. As you work with a stack you discover features that you use all the time and features that you don't use at all. At that point the creative magician should create his own stack, which contains whatever features he needs.

I haven't done this yet, but it is something that I intend to work on.

[Guest]

Re: 2nd Mem stack

<i>At that point the creative magician should create his own stack, which contains whatever features he needs.</i>

Sounds like good advice to me.

That's what I thought you may have done (Re: New routine that you've been using for the past two years.) Just wondering.

Thanks for the input,
Doug

[Guest]

Mike Close said:

Simon once made an interesting comment to me. He said that the most useful stack you will use is the _second_ one you memorize.

This is certainly true for me, although not for the reason Simon gives. In 1959, while still in High School, I learned the Nikola System. I was working with Harry Loraynes memory systems at the time, and when I saw the Nikola System in the Encyclopedia of Card Tricks, I set to work learning it. The problem was that none of the tricks built into the stack were particularly appealing to me at the time. (My fault entirely, I didn't realize the power of the tool.) And so it fell into disuse.
Many years later I bought a copy of Bound to Please, inspired by seeing Mike Close work. I've been hooked on the Aronson stack ever since.

As to coming up with my own stack: I have hardly tapped the potential of what can be done with Simon's. Can't think of anything I'd ever want to do with a memorized deck that can't be done with his. Sure, there are some card effects I do occasionally with other stacks, like Max Maven's Mockingbird, but I don't think I'll ever give up the Aronson stack. I'm certainly willing to admit that I'm no where near as creative as Simon or Mike when it comes to card magic. But then, only a few are.

[Simon Aronson]

Free "Memories Are Made of This" Lecture notes (my Introduction to Memorized Deck Magic) are now available at my website http://www.simonaronson.net (under the Magicians Only page).

Please note the new URL, it's www.simonaronson.net [not .com].

For those who are just learning, or want to practice, the Aronson stack there is also a new improved computer quizzer (by Mark Harris). And there are two new effects specific to the Aronson stack that restore stack order at the finish: Norman Beck's "Matching the Cards" and my own "Christ-Aronson Aces".

Enjoy.
Simon

[Guest]

Dear friends

I have just read everyones thoughts on this fascinating topic. I must give all due credit to Michael Close's excellent handling of the Aronson Stack. Michael may not remember me, but I first saw him present some astonishing effects with the Aronson Stack in Luca Italy, many years ago.
At this time I was already making use of the memory peg system outlined in Harry Lorayne's Memory books. The first stack I learned was in fact Nickola but didn't use enough because the tricks in The Encyclopedia of Cards tricks weren't very inspiring.
I now found myself having learn Simon's stack. To my surprise, I learnt the stack in four days and have been using it ever since.

The more you work the stack, you will come up with your own favorite sequences and routines. Michael Close mentions he has a routine which he use all the time. Well so have I and if I say so myself it is a blockbuster; a complete act using just the stack. Michael Close said to me, "the more technique you have and the more you know your stack cold,you can do miracles", he was right.

My book will be out sometime next year and I will be sharing with the fraternity some of my thoughts and ideas on the stack as an open index.

I wish you all luck with your discoveries.

Also, a big thanks to Simon for the many great sessions we have shared whilst visiting London.

Sincerely

Michael Vincent
London
:cool:

[Guest]

Thank you all for this very interesting thread. I am a french magician, using a memorised deck which has not been quoted here : Claude RIX' deck. It also contains some built-in features, such as Dai Vernon complete poker cheating exhibition, a three spelling cards routine, using english and french.

Shall I ask two questions ?

1/ Does someone eventually know if Tamariz' book will be printed in english ?

2/ What books do your suggest, describing good stack independant routines ?

Magic Regards,

Hugo.

[Guest]

I've studied tamariz mnemonic deck for fifteen years, I know that Benatar it's doing a translation to english ( he told it to me a week ago).
The great diference in relation to other stacks it's :

[Guest]

I've studied tamariz mnemonic deck for fifteen years, I know that Benatar it's doing a translation to english (he told it to me a week ago).
The great diference in relation to other stacks it's :
1/Flexibility: Can turn into stay-satck(Rushduck),starts & finish with factory order, can be set up in red black separation, can make aparition of 4 suits.

2/Deriving from being a lot magicians using it, ther are a lot of tricks not invented by Tamariz but very good: (Ten card poker deal, Trhee variants of Vernon Poker demostration. Several stunning coincidence effects( Rutina suerte, Prefiguration ....)Poker up to 8 players, gin rummy, bridge, and black jack demostrations. Also european card games(siete y media, chinchn). Histories like Sam the Bellop (three).Vernon's Cutting the aces. Lots of spelling tricks

3/It's truly a mixed deck (you can't see any order) but, because it's shuffled mathematically speaking has a lot of internal peculiarities not involved in the other mnemonic decks.)

Don't forget his mnemonic deck was not his first one (the first one he invented was based like Skinner and Aronson in Vernon poker demonstration)
But after studying Luis Garcia fabulous " Rito de iniciacin" he reverted to the mathematical use of pharo shuffle in the formation of his deck and that's all.

4/He has a discovered several ways of memorizing the stack that joined together make possible learning it very easily and fast.

The election it's yoours, but the important about mnemonmic deck it's not the easy way of learning it's the effects which has it's order inside. And in that Tamariz it's the more explored. When you read the book you'll see among my name Manuel Cuesta much more like Jim Krentz, Roberto Giobbi, Ramon Rioboo...

Since the publication of the book I've discoverd more than a dozen effects

[Doug Dyment]

Those interested in this topic might find it worthwhile to read An Introduction to Full-Deck Stacks , which expands considerably on several issues related to this subject, including some not mentioned above.

... Doug

[Guest]

I use Joyal Stack and it works like a dream for me. I also use Boris Wilds marking system on the deck plus crimp on the 20 th card.
I also use a clever deck switch for get maximum impact. I think a memorized deck stack is a very useful tool. One of my favorite effects with a memo stack is Darwin Ortiz "Last Laugh " and "Zen Master" they are monster great.
I think its possible to use a memo stack like a card index, just do a pinky count to the card you want.
If you have any tips on great effects with a memo stack post them here...

JOYAL STACK

[Danny Archer]

my two cent ... here's a couple of tips I use with Aronson stack ... instead of a short card I use a breather crimp on the JS ... in learning and keeping the stack frsh in my mind I developed a game I call Aronson Bingo ... as I drive my car, I look at the license plate of the car in front and using the numbers in different combinations I convert them into the cards stack number ...

[Guest]

Has anyone found method for shuffling the deck from new deck order into Aronson stack?

[Brian Marks]

Well, I will bring this topic up again. Ive been using the Joyal Stack for a year or so now with much success. I host an improv show where I do tricks in between acts. My favortie trick is 2 deck Canasta in Try the Impossible.

As a fake shuffle, I just cut the deck several times in a fashion that simulates an overhand shuffle. This doesnt affect the stack and my audience is convinced of a shuffled pack.

[Brian Marks]

I originally started the thread to find out about the advantages of the Tamariz stack. Now I own the book.

[Guest]

Richard Osterlind now offers the Memorised Osterlind Breakthrough Card System. Basically, the Osterlind BCS memorised using Harry Lorayne's peg memory system. Nice.

Nakul

[Don]

are all of these stacks as easy to set up as the si stebbens stack using ortiz's si stebbens secret?

[Grant McSorley]

If you're referring to the Joyal and Aronson stacks, then no, as far as I know. For Tamariz's, there is a relatively simple way to get into it from the "European" new deck order, but to get into it from "American" NDO it's a bit more involved.

Grant

[Pete McCabe]

Dennis Loomis:

Thanks for reminding me of the Mockingbird. That's another trick whose setup can be easily achieved from the Hacker Stack, Steven Youell's great idea for memorizing the si stebbins deck that results from Darwin Ortiz's Si Stebbins Secret.

I am currently deciding which stack I want to memorize. I've read Mneumonica, and so I know that whatever stack I choose, I'll use Tamariz's memorization methods.

But so far the tricks that most appeal to me do not depend on the specific stack. I have to say, the benefits of Si Stebbins have me leaning towards the Hacker Stack.

[Mecki]

Some personal remarks on the memorized deck:

1) A confession:
It took me more than one year to learn the Aronson Stack. Reading Mr. Aronsons encouraging words about people who have learned the stack in no time was a nice incentive, but for me it simply did not work. Now after I finally feel fit to do my brain-work while talking to the spectators the mere idea of learning another stack because of some built-in goodies gives me the shivers. No way. I stay with Aronson for the rest of my life.

2) Mathematics
Calculating the position of a card after the deck has been cut is difficult. Mathematics has always been a painful thing for me. I am sure that many magicians share this problem. But it seems to be necessary. The any-card-any-number-part of Michael Closes wishing trick is too good to pass it by just because of my disliking of mathematics.

3) The thrill
Nevertheless learning the memorized deck and exploring the new possibilities has been the greatest single thrill in magic I have experienced for a long time. The idea of replacing take a card! with name any card! is exciting. The magical impact of my card magic has improved already and will improve with my skills with the memorized deck.

4)Jazzin
Since I do not know Mr Closes secret trick I stay with Jazzin as a stimulating exercise which does produce occasional miracles. I found out that (at least in German language) it is easy to control the size of the spectators cut verbally. One time out of three I score a direct hit which brings a lot of newfound joy into an evening of tedious walk-around-sponge-ball-magic. Unfortunately, the cut-less spelling-solutions which are built-in within the Aronson-stack do not work in German language. I have some other ideas which I would share if anybody is interested. My biggest problem: I am not (yet) comfortable with Mr. Closes Gamblers Cop-solution if the spectator cuts too deep.

5) Everybodys darling
There is no point in discussing which cards will be named most often. (Incidentially: in Austria most spectators name the ace of hearts or the queen of hearts. Absolutely nobody picks any spade-card like it seems to be very common in the US) To me it seems quite important to avoid these favoured cards at all cost and to stress the freedom of choice. Splitting the decision between two or three spectators does the trick. (red/black, high/low, ect.)

6) Praise
I cannot stress enough how much I like the intelligent work of Simon Aronson on the subject. Taking into account that just like myself he is only an amateur magician I find it amazing, how much time and devotion he must have put into his very special kind of magic which does not only entertain but also mystify. I will not fail to mention Close, Ortiz and Richardson as other valuable sources of great ideas.