Mentalism's new face

[opie]

I wish you two would quit. Who is fighting? I was simply asking questions, and not once did I try to appear "grandiose". What is "grandiose" about admitting that I don't make $15,000 per show and attempting to make some sense out of some kid's bs?

Scott: I corrected crap like you write for 10 years as a college English teacher, led the unwilling for 26 years in the military, have been knee-deep in mud and blood in the back alleys of 21 capitals of the world, and have done more tricks for more women than you will ever meet. I have a granddaughter, just about your age, who is getting ready to go to Iraq; her husband is already there.

I have read more magic books than you will probably ever see, own more than 500 magic books, have been a demonstrator in several magic shops around the country, have contributed routines and tricks to various magazines, and had my first book published by Abbott's, when I was 25. I have a BS degree in Economics, a Masters in Management and Communications, and another Masters in English and Counselling.

I learned to recognize bs at age 18, when I was placed in charge of men in the service.

All I really would like is a short reply from you admitting that you have never earned $1500 for a show and a 1500-word essay on why you think it is cool to lie, as you say on your web page.

Then maybe we can get back to Andy's question about "entertainment vs bs".

opie

[Guest]

Please don't send me e-mails of your pictures. I may not be able to withstand the trauma.

I wish you luck in your career though.Incidentally, I bet Opie does too. You must learn to ignore him. He is just an old Texas blowhard who doesn't mean half the things he says.

[Guest]

Hey OPIE (self edited dont ask), I've made far more then that performing mentalism. I admire those who have served for our country so I have chosen to sensor myself and be polite. Just know that your monologues (thats what they have become) leave many gaps for open attacks! And though you continue to try to belittle me, I'm smiling and heading out to perform some magic. Maybe lincoln park today. Have a great day, and may G-d bless your children and our troops over seas.

[opie]

Mark: I think he loves you, daddy.....hehe

Scott: Thank you for the well wishes for my kids, but you still have not answered the question.

Mark: Let's go find a quiet corner table and have a cup of coffee...I am bored; what can we do?

opie

[Guest]

Seriously I have to run. I am 25 and yes I have made 1500 a show before. For a mortgage lender last month, that was the last time. It was sleightly over and then included a large tip. What havent I answered?

[Guest]

Talking about fighting for one's country I notice that it is Hitler's birthday today.
I have no idea why I mentioned this. I must be bored too.

[opie]

Thank you Scott.

There we have it; Scott says that he is 25 and that he has been paid $1500 for a single gig. (Do not quote me, since I have not yet verified this data.)

Mark: Hitler, eh? You have some strange friends...hehe

opie

[Guest]

LOL, Good day gentlemen.


TTFN,

[Guest]

Hitler is not my friend. I don't like the chap. It is just that in my capacity as a spirit medium and psychic reverend I am in touch with him from time to time.
He always calls me on his birthday.
Today.

Anyway, Scott has now answered your question. He is 25 years old and he claims to have done several shows (one a month on average) for $1500.
He even gets tips.

That is the bit that doesn't sound right. People often tip when you don't charge enough. They don't tip on $1500 gigs. Scott must be an exceptional young man.

I hate being tipped. I actually feel insulted.
British you know.

[Guest]

I knew there'd be debate, good thing for Kinkos! The tip surprised me too. But after my performing I as well as another 2 psychics performed some "readings" or "psychic readings" (I don't call them that and heavily disclaim powers) so maybe they felt obligated. Who knows? This actually was a rebook, and maybe they felt we have devloped a repore and I needed a cost of living increase? Beats me. I being american, like tips.

[opie]

Mark: I do humbly apologize for saying that Hitler is your friend. Please forgive. I can understand you having Satan as a friend; he has better looking women, but Hitler? Naaa, not a chance.

Scott is off the hook for now. I just wonder why nobody in Chicago has heard of him. Hopefully, he will get his poo poo in close proximity and stop hedging, when people ask him questions. He probably is a nice young man at heart.

I think I am going to the Omni for a soak in the hot tub. I always like a good soak, after being bashed with bs.

opie

[Guest]

Mr. Lewis, Opie, It's guys like you that make forums like Genii interesting and enjoyable to read. Now I just have to learn how to channel Senator Crandall. Coffee is on me!

[Guest]

Opie:
Scott is not off the hook yet...

As I have stated, its not unusual for a mentalist to make on average $1500 a venue. This of course isn't for nightclub work, but corporate gigs pay that often. Notice how I said on AVERAGE!

Scott: When you say average are you referring to the mean or median? When you say, 'a mentalist' are you implying that you have collected a representative sample? How did you collect your data?

Mark:
Welcome back! If you get too bored I'd be happy to go head to head with you.

[opie]

Mr. Jarrett: Thank you.

Prof. Vila: It is not unusual for the sun to rise in the mornings, but there is no connection whatsoever with that happening and our boy Scott.

Scott: Answer the nice man.

Mark: I am still bored....

opie

[opie]

Don't like tips? Mark, for a private engagement, other than a restaurant, always cheerfully accept a tip, no matter how large or small. You embarrass a person when you refuse, because, giving you the tip makes that person feel good; when you refuse it, the person may think that you are saying that he/she is guilty of a faux pas. Anything you do after that will be wrong.

I have been doing a repeat Christmas cocktail party for a local developer for several years, and he always pulls the same thing every year. He pays me upon arrival, which I insist upon. Then, after my hour of walkaround, I thank him and try to leave. Every time, he holds out a hundred dollar bill and asks me to stick around for a few more minutes for some friends who have not arrived. I always take the hundred and say, "Thanks, but I have made my rounds of every little group here, and I want to leave before they don't want me coming around again." He has never asked for the "tip" back, and I always leave, while the folks still want me. And, he always contacts me around Halloween to be ready for his Christmas party. I guess I am not charging him enough, eh?

Maybe I should tell him this year that I no longer do magic and that I am now a $1500 per gig mentalist. I can just imagine this good-old-boy Texas contractor getting all wet about that. I hate to do that, though, because he keeps me supplied with velvet Crown Royal bags; the boy drinks a lot of good booze. (I make Chop Cups, and the bags are great for them).

Mark, I will take the lower fees ($100 to $250 gigs), with the hundred dollar tips, because I contract as a guest, and most people there do not even know I am not. Therefore, I can drink good booze, eat good food, fool all the Billy Bobs, and flirt with all their ladies....and I get paid for it. I did that for decades in bars for drinks.

Just thought I would pass that on....but you already know that!

Just to get back on topic, I don't think he would like any psychological, long-winded, bs performances, so I can save money by not buying those psychological, long-winded, bs manuscripts...(you cannot even call them books).

opie

[Guest]

I didn't say I wouldn't take the tip. I merely said that I was insulted by it. Of course the bigger the tip the less insulted I feel.

I do not approve of tipping. It is a British invention taken up by Americans. We do invent the wrong things sometimes. I wish we had never invented this bloody silly custom.

I try my utmost not to tip anyone. Unfortunately my utmost fails on occasion. Usually if I go into a restaurant regularly. I still don't want to tip but I am afraid that if I don't some waiter will spit secretly into the soup. This tipping tommyrot induces false smiles and insincerity in waiters and waitresses. In the US in particular it makes them prone to announcing to all and sundry "Hi!!!! I'm your server and my name is Diane!" I haven't the slightest interest in the silly woman's name. I just want them to get on with the job.

I object to the moral and social blackmail of tipping. In Canada I feel that I am morally obliged in company to leave tips. I still don't. Whoever is with me at the time can tut tut all they like.

I once read of some chap in England who felt so strongly about the matter that he printed up little cards to leave waiters and other people who expected tips. It said "tipping demeans the giver and the receiver. Therefore I am not leaving any. If you are not being paid enough this is a private matter between you and your employer." Quite right too.

Of course in England they are less prone to tipping anyway. I think it is only a 50/50 chance there that a waiter will get any tip at all. I expect a magician hasn't got a chance in hell.

The Dutch hardly tip at all. They just round up the amount to the nearest Guilder. Washroom attendants expect tips there but very little.Tight bastards the Dutch. You try and sell svengali decks to them and you will soon see what I mean. No svengali pitchman has ever survived in Holland. It can't be done.

I understand that Iceland, Japan, New Zealand and other places frown upon this silly tipping nonsense. Quite right too.

When I sell Svengalis in Canada I have to put the loose change somewhere. I usually put it in a glass or just leave it lying loose on the table. Unfortunately this induces people to think I am after tips. So they throw loose change in. I am highly insulted since I don't want their silly loose change. I want them to spend $10 on the deck. By leaving tips they are getting themselves off the hook by not buying.

I do not refuse the tips. However, I do not accept them graciously either. I usually make some vicious remark about accepting charity and frighten them away wishing they had never tipped me in the first place.

There. I have that off my chest now. You can tell that I am bored.

[Brad Henderson]

Andy,

What is the difference whether the rock moves or not as long as they believe it did? They walk away saying, "I saw the rock move." Seems to me you end up with the same effect, but without any danger of the method being detected.

[Guest]

My dear colleagues. Rain has sent my day down the gutters.

How do I know what the average is for mentalists? I run a message board for mentalists on yahoo. I have many friends who are mentalists. I don't wish to name drop. Just read above. Theres 3 compitent mentalists who (I'm sure opie will not believe) have stated examples of what they make above. We have swirved way off topic.

Whoa, you boys out on a date for coffee! On second thought I don't think I want to know...

Longwinded? I think if you tried Mr. Jermays pulse stopping effect you might enjoy it. Kenton Knepper, who is the king of suggestion and mentalisms new face developed an out for it just in case you meet one of the "pig" headed boys like the ones who post on this board (myself included, I realize we all have views and debate is the way to explore new ideas). The "Out" is located in his wizards manual series 3 I believe.

Now to get back onto suggestion and the such. I do not think they can harm a performance. They are a nice iceing on the cake. Look at Derren Brown, psychobable, has done wonders for this man. Where would a hershey's bar be without the pretty wrapper? Dirty, crusty, melted, and covered with dirt on a store shelf.

In mentalism where theres very few methods to accomplish your goal. I believe Max Maven said theres 4 various methods, I dont remember. And beyond that its all performance and style.

Now don't get me wrong, I do believe sleights ar a must, and make the difference between a good performer and an awesome performer. I would highly recommend readng "Maximum Entertainment" by Weber. It is filled with methods for accelerating a performer.

Opie, thanks. I would liek to think I'm a nice guy. If my Mom were alive, I think she'd want me to treat people with respect. Even though they do not return the favor.

Like I said I'm rather new to the game, but I promise within a year or two I'll be known. After all, you can't judge how good of a person I am by my name. After all I have never heard of any of you! Meet me first then decide what you think of me. I probably won't announce anymore performances here, I dont need hecklers. But Opie, if you make it to chi-town, please call me. I promise I will do some suggestive mentalism for you.

Last quick remark, tipping is a tough subject. I usually make my money off of readings. $15 a pop. I still accept tips, but I never pressure or strong arm anybody into giving. It gives you a great feeling when someone tips you, they dont need to, but they thought you were that good. I often state in my shows that you dont need to tip.... I gotta run, sorry ill continue later.

If you'll excuse me I have a 4 oclock appointment at DOWN FROM THE TRACKS that I'm late for.

May what ever G-d you bleive in bless you and yours.

[Guest]

Hello Scott.
Just to clear up any misconception that you may have, I have met you, you are known already, nobody said anything about heckling, and you're not invited for coffee. ;)

[opie]

Thank you Scott for the suggestion that Mark and I and the other guys here may have some "ulterior" motives for getting together for coffee. (A weak mind usually uses as a defense that which he secretly detests; are you a homophobe?)

All you need to do, son, is to admit that your receipt of $1500 per show is total bs. When you do that, I might even believe that you are not still a teenager.

(Shhhh...just between you and me, in secret, you may have really screwed up by suggesting that anybody who has questioned whether or not you are telling the truth about how much money you get for a show is somehow odd in his sexual preferances. That is not a real smart thing to do. It is almost as stupid as saying that you get $1500 per show. Shhhh...this is just between us; nobody else can read this private message here in these parenthesis. So, why don't you simply admit to everybody that you were telling a little fib about your fees, and everybody will probably say, "Okay, son, you are a true mentalist; keep on keeping on!" Anything short of that is going to get you nightmares for some time; look at the membership numbers on this web of the people who are questioning your word. Hell, we have been here, since before you had hair on your....chin. Go ahead! Fess up! It is good for the soul, and I guarantee that the men here will forgive you, and you will have learned a good lesson.)

I really am on your side....

opie

[Guest]

I am too soft hearted to bully the kid. I shall let Scott and Opie fight this one out by themselves.

[opie]

Mr. Jarrett, please. I really want to meet the kid. You did not say you knew him. I may have to adjust my thinking about him.....mmmmmmm....mmmmm...Naaaa!

Let's invite him to coffee...Maybe he can make the coffee grounds in our cups move....I would really like that, after, of course, I chewed the waiter out for giving me moveable coffee grounds.

You can't fool me; the guys in the kitchen might be dropping something in my cup besides coffee....and I would bet that they are in their fifties and sixties and have long hair...

At least they are honest and are not trying to drop :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: into my entertainment....

Post Script to Mark: Fight? Naaa...Education...

opie

[Guest]

Opie, Let me make it clear that I've only "met" him. The way I know him is from his post on another m(tr)agic forum and from the many years of working magic shops, seeing all the "Cincinnati Kids" come in and then go out the door. I've been doing this for 33 years, it's nothing new.

I like my coffee black.

[opie]

No issue here...

I like my coffee like my women....blonde and bitter...hehe (jk...I am married to a red head).

So what is your opinion on the Andy question?

Will check in tomorrow; I read Mary to sleep at night, and I need to get up early, as I have a gig in the morning.

opie

[Guest]

Andy's original question was on the rage of books using suggestion, linguistics, etc. I myself have been fooled by Kenton many times using his "linguistic" approach. The problem with the "suggestion" comes into play when you are performing for a large group of people and only the person who is assisting you is the only one that experiences "the happening". Take for instance Docc Hilford's Ball & Tube, I've seen him nail it and freak the person out, but as I sat watch this, I got nothing. The reason, there was nothing for me to experience. I have in the past used a variation of RGM, but dropped it after a while because, once again it wasn't an experience for everyone.

Now as to the value, I think that is determined by the person reading or performing the material, if it's not for you,don't purchase it.There's plenty of material out there new (Bob Cassidy has put out 39 e-books in the last 2 years!) and old (leave the old stuff for me) that doesn't use any of the above.

That's how I see it, till morning!

[Guest]

I have decided to use my psychic power to shed some light on Scott's claim of earning $1500 a month from a single mentalism show.

The child is indeed telling the truth and Opie owes him an apology.

He did indeed earn $1500 a month. That is A month. A single month. I am not sure which month.
But one single month.In his youthful excitement over earning such a high fee he has implied that he gets it all the time. He doesn't. He is just thinking positive that's all. He now sees himself as a $1500 performer. Nothing wrong with that. It is called self visualisation and motivation. No doubt he purchased some sort of American self help book in a Chicago bookshop which has inspired him to think this way.

Out of that $1500 he had to pay a couple of psychics. Let us hope that he didn't hire some of the psychics I know. They have a tendency to scam several thousands of dollars from one client. I wouldn't want Scott to be out of pocket.

However let us assume that the psychics were a trifle more reasonable than that. It still brings Scotts fee down a bit from the original $1500. Oh, he confessed to getting a tip. That must have brought his fee up to the $1500. However it brings the original fee right down. So after giving this a psychic analysis it appears that the $1500 has to include a tip and the fee of two psychics.

I still think he came out of it OK and has got a trifle excited over the matter.I bet he took a couple of days off from working the street until reality set in and he realised that he had to pay next month's rent. He also had to pay for his nightclubbing and chasing women lifestyle. I get a psychic feeling that he chases women rather a lot. Opie doesn't have the energy any more.Actually I do chase women too. The trouble is that I chase them away.

So this I believe is the solution to the $1500 mystery. Now what was the original topic of this thread all about? I haven't looked.Something to do with NLP, I believe. Actually, I don't believe. In NLP that is. I think it is an abbreviation for Not a Lot of Plausibility.

Reminds me of Scott in some way.

Still, he is young and is entitled to exaggarate a trifle. The mind boggles at how many stories Opie told when he was 25. I bet he was insufferable.Some people think he still is.

I do not approve of bragging. Even though I am one of the greatest card magicians that the world has ever known it is not something that I care to draw attention to.

I think that Scott should follow my humble example.

[opie]

Jarrett, thanks once again for your reason and sanity here.

Mark, I never knew you could be gullible...hehe. When he fesses up, we will have the answer. His $1500 fee story does not hold up, even after the wildest psychic investigations. There are not specific facts on which to build even a possible determination. You are getting too easy in your old age...

I too told tall tales (a lot of alliteration there), when I was 25, but most of the tales were true, having, by that age, already travelled over the Far East and Europe for eight years, as a young virile military guy. Now, I do not chase women any more, but I do run a lot slower when the old blind ladies are chasing me..hehe.

I am bored by the whole topic. NLP? Yeah right! Age 25, making $1500 per show? Yeah right! I will leave the question for the Chicago guys to determine whether or not the kid is out of his teens and who paid him $1500. I really do not care that much any more. (Sssshhhhh...Mark, just between you and me, my psycho abilities tell me that I am right and you are wrong; gotcha!!!..hehe)

Coffee is on; Mary made it like I like it, good and strong.

opie

[Guest]

Sorry for not remembering you Jarett, but Im sure it was a pleasure.

You guys make me laugh. You guys are great. Really are you guys this bored?

[Andrew]

I think Jarrett has it right. As for this strange, bitchy discussion about money -- what was that all about? Can we stick to a thread?

[Guest]

I see that Andy is waxing irritable. If it is any consolation to him I have gone to look to see what he is complaining about.

I must say that I agree with him. All these new books are in the main a load of twaddle and written by people who have never done a show for real people in their lives.

There, Andy. Feel better now?

[Guest]

Prof. Opie:

I know of a great school in Central Florida that specializes in entertainment if you ever wish to come out of retirement. Check us out at web page

As a bonus the coffee flows freely for the staff 24 hours per day.

[opie]

Sorry Andy...I just want to respond to Prof. Vila..

I work enough, just doing occasional classes and gigs around here. But thanks...

If you run into Bev Bergeron, tell him Opie said hi...

I don't think there is much else to say on this topic...except I do wish our boy would fess up...

opie

[Guest]

I expect Andy has now been driven up the wall because nobody is discussing his momentous question about new fangled books written by various incompetents. I have no idea what the books are but if they are written after 1954 naturally they are of little value.

Opie confuses me. First he tells me to leave the kid alone and when I do he starts to bait the kid himself.

Very well then. Let us finish the matter once and for all. Scott. Pay attention please.

How many gigs have you done in past 12 months that have paid at least $1000? I am more lenient than Opie and will not insist on the $1500.

The best answer is to tell us all to mind our own business. However, if you do that then Opie will never leave you alone.

So go on. Answer the question and then we can all have some peace.

Personally I don't care if you have only made $200 in the last 12 months. After all it is good for young magicians to starve. Good training for a lifetime in showbusiness.

But for the sake of shutting Opie up tell us how many gigs you got at this price. I think we all know anyway but we would like you to confirm it.

Then Andy can get back to asking earth shattering and important questions about books that won't be around in ten years time.

[opie]

I really would like to know what books Andy is talking about.

I will make every effort to stay on topic, if somebody will just tell me what we are talking about.

See how vague topics tend to get off topic?

Mark, your posts often stir me to unconscious telekenesic behavior, so maybe there is something to psychological suggestion; however, my masters work in counselling did not prepare me to make people's skin crawl...

I would prefer to wait until there is more practical work being done on the topic, before I blow my money on theoretical books...

I agree with you that anything written after 13 Steps and Annemann's works is just rehash or bs.

opie

[Guest]

Prof. Opie:

The offer remains open. If you're ever in town I'd love to give you a tour of the place.

I think I saw Mr. Bergeron at an auction a couple of weeks ago, but it was only for a brief moment, and I didn't get to say, 'hi'.

Andy:

With regards to books I highly recommend:
"Statistics for the Utterly Confused"
by LLoyd Jaisingh, Ph.D.

or perhaps "How to Lie with Statistics" by Hoff

This way you will know
the difference between a mean and a median average; the meaning of random sampling; and how to avoid making incorrect conclusions from incomplete and perhaps biased data.

[opie]

Thanks Rafael...Call me Opie...I taught college English for 10 years and do not want to teach any more...but thanks again..

I think I am going to leave Andy's thread to Andy and his topic....

opie

[opie]

Andy: Sorry to intrude on your thread....but, if you were sitting where I am, would you allow the kid to not have to prove his age and from whom he received a $1500 fee?

I didn't think so....

Scott: We need an ID check and a deposit slip.

Andy: Thanks man...I won't be able to sleep, until this question is resolved...

opie

[Guest]

Hello Mr. Lewis, Opie,
This will be my last post about Scott aka Dr. Zodizac.

Scott, it was not a pleasure to meet you, it was actually very painful. Your attitude was, as it is here painful.

It's painful to see you make a fool of yourself on this forum in front of people that you know and or will one day meet. (I just spent the day with the boys here and they are laughing at this, they don't know jarrett is me).

It pains me to see you perpetuate story that are either not true or partially true and then twist them. You don't need to make things up for people to be your friend, we all here have a common interest. And like me, likes to share their views, thoughts and idea. But as you can see Andy's thread came to a screaching stop.

And it even pains me more to tell you I know one of the "players" in the night club you are "suppose" to be performing at. You really should tell the truth before they get wind of this. They are pretty cool people.

Scott, there's a great joke, which I wont bother to type, but the punchline is "be yourself"!

I'm in so much pain now I need some hydrocodone!

Gents, it's been enlighting!
Ciao!

[opie]

Jarrett: The real waste here is not that we have given so much attention to someone who does not deserve it; the real waste is that we have not wholeheartedly backed up Andy in his honorable spotlighting of some real crap that is being excreted upon the naive young folks who buy into the whole neo-mentalism bs.

I have a couple of friends who are mental-magic magicians/mentalists and put on good shows. They do not, however, try to make anything out of themselves that is anything other than just entertainers. They sure as hell do not try to peddle "Dr. Goode Cure-All Fertilizer".

It has been a pleasure to meet and share with you here....(And, of course, I always enjoy Mark, but don't tell him)...

opie