The Genii Forum

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 4:46 pm**

I have created a magic social networking site, which I have been putting up public domain magic materials for download.

Please check it out:
www.magibook.org

Every since the learnedpig project sold, I have been wanting to have a list of resources for our magic community.

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 5:13 pm**

Your site is requesting a user name and password to sign in, therefore there is no way to sign in.

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 5:14 pm**

Looks like you have click "join" and then wait for approval.

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 5:16 pm**

I just got an "invalid" message.

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 5:40 pm**

I apologize, I'm new to this type of programming.
It should be under join, I'm not sure why it's giving you an invalid (I'll go through the coding and see if I can figure it out). The easiest way to join, is to be logged into facebook, and click the F connect.
I apologize for the hiccup.

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 5:59 pm**

I am logged in to Facebook but see no "F connect". Where do I find it?

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 6:02 pm**

It should be on the main page. Underneath where the log in information is, you should see a nice big blue "Fconnect".

If it isn't showing, I'll see if I can find a direct way to send it to you instead

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 6:19 pm**

I've changed some of the permissions, so hopefully it is easier to join. Let me know if you are still having issue with it.
I also plan on adding at least one public domain magic book per week. I am also attempting to collect public domain videos for download as well.

The idea is that this will be purely only for magicians. If it does become popular, we will switch to a invite only system, to help ensure it is just magicians that are apart of the site.

Any and all feedback would be great.

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 6:43 pm**

Make sure you fully understand what "public domain" means!

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 7:36 pm**

John Midgley wrote:Every since the learnedpig project sold, ...

What is the learnedpig project?

Posted: **October 28th, 2012, 9:34 pm**

The Learned Pig Project collected public domain magic books and made them available to members, along with original items by Marko, who ran the whole thing. Eventually he found he couldn't keep up with all of it.

Posted: **October 29th, 2012, 11:55 am**

John Midgley wrote:I've changed some of the permissions, so hopefully it is easier to join. Let me know if you are still having issue with it.
I also plan on adding at least one public domain magic book per week. I am also attempting to collect public domain videos for download as well.

The idea is that this will be purely only for magicians. If it does become popular, we will switch to a invite only system, to help ensure it is just magicians that are apart of the site.

Any and all feedback would be great.

As of now (10/29 11:AM Eastern) clicking on the Twitter icon does nothing.

Posted: **October 29th, 2012, 11:37 pm**

You are absolutely correct. I will go through the coding more, and see what was done incorrectly. I know that the Fbook connect works, and the Google login works as well.

The facebook is kind of finicky though. I find it tends to only work if you are logged into your facebook account, and it is open in a different window.

Thanks for letting me know. For the time being I will take down the twitter login, until I figure out what's wrong.

Posted: **October 30th, 2012, 9:18 pm**

I see no facebook log in option and the google one led me to a page telling me:

Magibook is requesting permission to:

Manage your contacts

which when I chose no thanks I redirect to a blank page and am not logged in.

Also this is not the first magic social network. I could be wrong but I think the first was themagicnetwork.com

Posted: **October 30th, 2012, 10:33 pm**

I had some issues with coding earlier, so thinks weren't fluid at the moment.

I don't recall themagicnetwork.com beging set up as a social network. It certainly had users, much like forums, but when it comes to all things social network style, it did not appear to have it (I too could be wrong).

The facebook one works, but it is finiky. You have to be logged into facebook and then you can sign in that way. The "join" always works, but most people prefer the easiest route (which I don't blame them).

I have also changed permissions, so that individuals can see some of the site, to get an idea of what it looks like (majority being blocked or hidden).

Posted: **October 30th, 2012, 11:06 pm**

I don't see the facebook option. Direct link?

Posted: **October 30th, 2012, 11:37 pm**

The way it seems to work the easiest, is if you are logged into facebook. On a seperate tab/page go to www.magibook.org and click the blue "Fconnect" button.

If you can't see the Fconnect button, then it is getting blocked by browser permissions

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 11:14 am**

http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm

Generally, works created before January 1, 1978, are protected for 95 years. For more information on when copyrights expire consult the chart prepared by Professor Laura N. Gassaway, University of North Carolina. (see above)

Materials in the public domain (not eligible for copyright):

Works published before 1923
Federal government publications
Facts
Other works may be in the public domain, refer to the chart prepared by Professor Laura N. Gassaway, University of North Carolina.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 11:35 am**

Unless I missed something, works created before the change in copyright law in 1978 are only protected if the copyrights were renewed. If the copyrights were not renewed, these items have fallen into public domain.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 12:38 pm**

Richard Kaufman wrote:Unless I missed something, works created before the change in copyright law in 1978 are only protected if the copyrights were renewed. If the copyrights were not renewed, these items have fallen into public domain.

Close, but not quite.

This chart lays it out very nicely.

Books published 1964 through 1977 (with notice) become public domain 95 years after publication date. Now if books in that period were published without notice, they can be in the public domain.

Interestingly, a huge amount of books published between 1923 and 1964 are in the public domain due to lack of registration.

A 1961 Copyright Office study found that fewer than 15% of all registered copyrights were renewed. For books, the figure was even lower: 7%. See Barbara Ringer, "Study No. 31: Renewal of Copyright" (1960), reprinted in Library of Congress Copyright Office. Copyright law revision: Studies prepared for the Subcommittee on Patents, Trademarks, and Copyrights of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Eighty-sixth Congress, first [-second] session. (Washington: U. S. Govt. Print. Off, 1961), p. 220.

Some well known books are in the public domain due to never being registered in the U.S.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 1:09 pm**

That's very helpful, thanks Chris.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 1:54 pm**

It's also important to note (per the chart referenced) concerning "Works First Published Outside the U.S. or Works Published by Foreign Nationals or U.S. Citizens Living Abroad", that the same rules often do not apply. In those cases, there is some similarity to U.S. law, but various treaties (Special cases, et al.) make it much more confusing to track down public domain status.

Even checking (1923-1964) registration U.S. Published works can get a bit problematical as there is no official record of those easily available online from the U.S. Copyright office.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 5:44 pm**

The charts from Bud and Chris posted above are good, but if you have a real legal copyright issue involved, it might be wise to not depend solely on them. Copyright law is not something that laypeople should bluff their way through.

For example, "Happy Birthday to You" (the song) was written well before 1923, and as such, should be in the public domain. However, it was registered for copyright in 1935 as if it were newly written, and the owner of that copyright defends it still (which is why, when you go to a restaurant, they sing some lame substitute song for your birthday instead of the real thing.) If you use it, and they sue you, and you defend yourself in court, you might win. But you'll still be out the costs of an expensive lawsuit. (see the Wikipedia article for "Happy Birthday to You.")

I had an email conversation once with the head of the Google Books project at Google (they don't completely display a number of items that you'd think would be in the public domain, per the charts linked above). Some of their concerns:
1. Item published by the government often include republication of items that were previously published by non-government entities; thus, they won't simply assume that all govt publications are public domain (and typically they err on the side of conservatism by providing only a "snippet view", rather than confirm, page by page, that the work is in fact wholly authored by the govt.)
2. The "Twin Books vs Walt Disney" decision in the 9th Circuit resulted in the idea that items published in foreign countries before 1923, but not in the U.S., are for copyright purposes "unpublished" and therefore can't be considered in the public domain.
3. A great deal of material was registered with copyright, but the copyrights were never renewed, and thus they should be in public domain. But there's no good way to confirm that.

The law is tricky (is that why so many magicians are lawyers, Bob Farmer?)

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 6:31 pm**

Bill Mullins wrote:3. A great deal of material was registered with copyright, but the copyrights were never renewed, and thus they should be in public domain. But there's no good way to confirm that.

I agree with everything you say but this. "One good way" to confirm status for U.S. published works is by scouring the renewal records. These renewal records (a necessity for this type of research) are available online if one knows where to look. It's the best first step before contacting a a lawyer to be sure.

Or one can search the records at the Library of Congress or pay their staffers to do it for you. Some public libraries have a set of them.

Many books are clearly in the Public Domain because not only were they never renewed, they were often not registered in the first place.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 7:03 pm**

Chris Aguilar wrote:This chart lays it out very nicely.

I hope that chart only refer to books published within the U.S.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 7:14 pm**

Tom Stone wrote:
Chris Aguilar wrote:This chart lays it out very nicely.

I hope that chart only refer to books published within the U.S.

If you scroll down through the entire document, you'll see it covers a bit more than that.

Though the chart is certainly a lot more complete in terms of U.S. public domain.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 7:48 pm**

Chris Aguilar wrote:
Tom Stone wrote:
Chris Aguilar wrote:This chart lays it out very nicely.

I hope that chart only refer to books published within the U.S.

If you scroll down through the entire document, you'll see it covers a bit more than that.

It looked unreasonable at first, but it turns out I accidentally had skipped a line of text. Sorry about that!

For those living, and books published, outside the US all this is a lot simpler. Author's life + 70 years, then the work falls into public domain.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 8:01 pm**

Tom Stone wrote:For those living, and books published, outside the US all this is a lot simpler. Author's life + 70 years, then the work falls into public domain.

I am jealous of the European's who have work entering the public domain every year. Here in the U.S. it has been many years since even a single item entered the public domain.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 8:32 pm**

Chris Aguilar wrote:
Tom Stone wrote:For those living, and books published, outside the US all this is a lot simpler. Author's life + 70 years, then the work falls into public domain.

I am jealous of the European's who have work entering the public domain every year. Here in the U.S. it has been many years since even a single item entered the public domain.

Isn't that a bit paradoxical?
To congratulate Europeans for having a simple system that is on the side of the individual author, while simultaneously decrying the introduction of the same simple system over there? The incongruously complicated system you've had is the main reason it takes so many years to get in sync, and people still want to keep it complicated? Isn't that a bit like having one's red tape and eating it too?

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 9:15 pm**

Tom Stone wrote:Isn't that a bit paradoxical?
To congratulate Europeans for having a simple system that is on the side of the individual author, while simultaneously decrying the introduction of the same simple system over there? The incongruously complicated system you've had is the main reason it takes so many years to get in sync, and people still want to keep it complicated? Isn't that a bit like having one's red tape and eating it too?

If that were my actual opinion, then perhaps.

But seeing as how that is not my opinion, then no, not at all.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 9:38 pm**

Chris Aguilar wrote:If that were my actual opinion, then perhaps.

But seeing as how that is not my opinion, then no, not at all.

I referred to the text you linked to. Wrongly assumed it was relevant to your post. Sorry.

Posted: **October 31st, 2012, 11:18 pm**

Tom Stone wrote:
Chris Aguilar wrote:If that were my actual opinion, then perhaps.

But seeing as how that is not my opinion, then no, not at all.

I referred to the text you linked to. Wrongly assumed it was relevant to your post. Sorry.

I assumed/hoped that you could see the relevance without making a lot of incorrect assumptions as to my views.

Evidently not.

Posted: **November 1st, 2012, 12:15 am**

Chris Aguilar wrote:I assumed/hoped that you could see the relevance without making a lot of incorrect assumptions as to my views.

Evidently not.

Evidently...

Oh, look! There's that road again! The one that looks as if it is going somewhere, but doesn't. Good thing I'm going the other way this time. Bye. :)

Posted: **November 1st, 2012, 12:44 am**

Tom,

I've learned from previous experience that you don't seem to have much interest in discussing this topic in any sort of civil manner.

Tom Stone wrote:
Chris Aguilar wrote:I assumed/hoped that you could see the relevance without making a lot of incorrect assumptions as to my views.

Evidently not.

Evidently...

Oh, look! There's that road again! The one that looks as if it is going somewhere, but doesn't. Good thing I'm going the other way this time. Bye. :)

I've learned from previous experience that you don't seem to have much interest in discussing this topic in any sort of civil manner.

Posted: **November 1st, 2012, 12:48 am**

Tom Stone wrote:Bye. :)

Posted: **November 1st, 2012, 12:58 am**

Tom Stone wrote:
Tom Stone wrote:Bye. :)

Thanks for allowing us to get back on topic.

Posted: **November 1st, 2012, 1:02 am**

For those interested in searching the copyright renewal status of books for the period of 1923-1978 Google has a special search page that allows one to hunt through the copyright renewals.

Not especially convenient, but it does work.

In order to provide Rightsholders with another mechanism for confirming whether books were registered with the Copyright Office before 1978, Google has scanned 91 volumes of the U.S. Copyright Office Catalog of Copyright Entries (including works registered from 1923 up to 1978) and made those volumes searchable online through Google Books. In determining the registration status of your work, you may want to check both the Copyright Offices online database and Googles searchable scans.

I would take their advice to heart.

You should note that the lack of results for a search of these volumes does not necessarily mean the work for which you are searching was not registered with the Copyright Office. Works may have been registered later than the year of publication (including registration after 1977, which would then be accessible through the Copyright Office's online database), and they may have been registered under other titles or as part of a larger work. In addition, because the current technology available to scan books is not perfect, it is possible that a search of these digital copies might not detect particular words that appeared in the original volumes.

Posted: **November 2nd, 2012, 11:37 pm**

Thank you Chris

Posted: **November 3rd, 2012, 3:49 pm**

Also, we have just implemented a credit system to www.magibook.org

Essentially users earn credits by engaging in the site and with each other. This month, the individual with the most credits will win a limited edition deck (4 made), which were demo productions.

So if the over 20 public domain books and handful of public domain video we currently have isn't enough for the collectors out there.....perhaps you would like to win the deck

Posted: **November 4th, 2012, 12:12 am**

John -

Just tried to sign up just as a sign up, and it keeps telling my my image file (of which there is none) isn't valid. Looks like it wants to require an image of some kind, and alas, I have none.

Just a note. I know it's a process...

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