Ammar's Complete Cups and Balls Collector's Edition available

[Richard Kaufman]

mrgoat wrote, "... because they are advertisers, RK quashes threads bashing them. Again, this is a private forum and it is his right to do so."

This is not true. I lock threads and delete posts and ask people to stop posting when things become a rude free-for-all, or the conversation simply has no further purpose and just becomes a repetitious back and forth that is incredibly tedious.

Kind of like this thread. It has no further purpose. L&L made an announcement, sold its books, and several people have criticized them for doing it. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. At this late date, I don't think L&L is going to change the way it conducts its business, so the advice given to them, while perhaps worthwhile, is not something they seem interested in.

The ultimate barometer of a business's success is whether customers buy or do not buy its product, not people complaining about it on the internet.

[magicam]

What difference does it make if the limited editions are sold years ago or today? It's still the same amount on the market, still being sold at the same price.

For starters, I have no ax to grind with L & L. I think the only time I ever interacted with L & L, I found the staff to be courteous and responsive.

Whatever criticism may be leveled at L & L (correctly or not), it seems only fair to note that L & L is selling these 20 copies at the same price as 13+ years ago. In fact, after taking inflation into account, the $150 price tag is cheaper in real dollars than in 1998. So L & Ls gross profit in real dollars from these 20 books is less than it would have been had these books been sold years ago. IMO, that undercuts the argument that L & L has engaged in some sort of scheme to manipulate the market for greater profit.

No company selling collectible items ever promises the value will go up.

If promise means an express warranty that collectible prices will increase, there is probably a lot of truth to that literal claim, so far as it goes. But in my experience nearly all companies engaged in the sale of so-called collectibles do imply, or do allow the very strong inference, that collectibles prices will go up. Thats simply part of marketing get it now or pay more for it later! and no company should be faulted for engaging in such typical marketing hyperbole.

Selling these remaining 20 books does not hurt the secondary market because it's not another edition, it's the same edition that was sold when the book was first released.

Assuming the secondary market price for the deluxe issue of Ammars book exceeded $150 at the time L & L released the 20 additional copies, I will have to disagree with its claim, because it fails both as a matter of logic and the laws of microeconomics. This has nothing to do with whether or not a reprint was published and everything to do with the total number of copies of this book in circulation. If the secondary market price of this book was, say, $175, then it stands to reason that L & Ls release of 20 copies of this book will, at least in the short run, depress the market price of this book and deprive any sellers of receiving $175 for their copies. Why? Because those who might have been willing to pay $175 for copies could instead purchase copies direct from L & L for $150. So, contrary to L & Ls claim, the release of these 20 copies does indeed hurt the secondary market, at least for the near future (and again, assuming that the secondary market price for this book was more than $150).

[LL Publishing]

Repeating what we posted earlier, these sold in just about 24 hours and only brought $3,000, less considering we pay for postage in the USA & Canada and the cost of packing materials.

This is significant for a couple of reasons. The first reason is it's hardly the retirement plan Brad referred to earlier.

The second reason is they weren't on the market for weeks, months or years to affect any secondary market. Denny has this the book for sale on his site. It was on his site prior to the announcement we made to our mailing list (we never announced it here or The Cafe). It's selling for $175.00. If the "secondary market" was so hot for this title at above original retail price, he would have sold it by now. Is every book collector on our mailing list? It's doubtful. There were/are thousands of people who never knew this book was for sale.

It would interesting to see proof that selling these 20 books affected anything. Theory is one thing, proof is another. Where are the ebay auctions that show the price of the book before we sold these 20 books and where are the ebay auctions that show the decreased prices after they sold out? Were auctions pulled once we announced the sale? How about on other sites, like The Cafe's buy & sell section? Or this site?

Denny is still selling the book for $175. His price hasn't decreased. What was this selling for elsewhere prior to us announcing these 20 books? Where were they selling? What are they selling for now?

In about 24 hours these books sold out so that means the secondary market should be thriving just as it was last week at this time. You can't buy it retail for $150 anymore. You can buy it for $175. Are collectors looking to profit from their collectible book getting upset over $25?

[LL Publishing]

One more point to add to this is that we had more requests for books than we had books. So there are still customers out there wanting to buy the book. If they're willing to spend $150 for the book, they're probably willing to spend $175. If all they wanted was the information, they would have purchased the ebook which was available for a couple of weeks prior to the release of these 20 books.

[mrgoat]

Now watch Steve try and get the last word, thus alienating even more customers.

[LL Publishing]

If there are any collectors who want to sell their Complete Cups & Balls book, this is an ideal time to do so. Repeating what we posted earlier, we had more requests for the book than we had inventory, so there are potential customers ready to buy now.

As of this morning, the only place we could find the deluxe version for sale is at Denny & Lee's:

http://goo.gl/nV02x

At $175.00, this is an excellent deal considering we found the standard edition selling for almost $300!

There is a demand for the product and virtually no supply. Denny's copy wont last long.

Our announcement of the 20 copies isn't the only source of renewed interest for this title. Several weeks ago Michael Ammar released an excellent Cups & Balls download "4 Minutes of Fame" and in the demo video he references the book and shows the deluxe edition. http://goo.gl/tQJmZ

If you have the standard edition, you have a chance of selling it for more than your purchase price. There are several sources for the standard edition, which based on current prices, seem to also have become a collector's item.

ebay has one:
http://goo.gl/7v4dq

Amazon has three:
http://goo.gl/6Ph5l

Magic Inc has one:
http://goo.gl/a4pH4

If you are not a collector and just want the information, we sell the ebook http://goo.gl/jfaIE

[Roger M.]

When compared to L&L....... Richard Kaufman, Todd Karr, and Mike Caveney all seem to be the torch-bearers of credibility when it comes to the integrity of their limited editions and the overall respect they hold for customers who have already purchased their product.

Like Brad, I note that it seems painfully obvious that L&L has decided to hawk the entire farm, and not worry about their customers who've previously purchased limited edition items (or regular editions for that matter).

The Nick Trost book seems another prime example among many these days at L&L.
This is a book that 5 years ago was selling for $100.00, then the 2nd L&L release brought it back to $45.00, and now the ebook is a few bucks.......AND L&L have done all the leg work for the torrent kiddies, and the Trost book will be up on the file sharing sites in a matter of days, and available free to anybody who bothers to look for it.

The Trost book has essentially gone from semi-precious to near-worthless in terms of cash value. (of course it remains absolutely priceless in terms of material)........all as a result of how L&L have handled it.

Of course this last "cash grab" will ultimately render the L&L crown jewels completely valueless, so one wonders what the L&L end game is in all of this.

L&L fancies itself as giving "good forum", but their actions clearly indicate it as lip service, and that they're out to squeeze the last few bucks they can possibly squeeze out of everything they have previously published.

Anybody who declares that releasing additional inventory into the stream, or publishing a previously published hardcover as an ebook doesn't destroy that books cash value is at best clueless, and at worst a damn liar.

The assumption that the readers of this forum can't clearly see what's going on is a dangerous one to make.
The assumption that a few childish posts to links offering books for sale can make it "all good" again is an assumption made in error..........and a clear demonstration that (intentionally of unintentionally) L&L completely misses the point under discussion.

[Richard Kaufman]

Whether anyone likes it or not, most books will be available as an epub in some form in the future, with many appearing sooner rather than later.

L&L is to be congratulated for migrating most of its titles to ebooks sooner rather than later: I bought the Classic Magic of Larry Jennings the day it was available.

All of everyone's books and DVDs are available on torrent sites now and have been for years. By not making official versions available from the publisher, we are ceding the entire digital business to pirates. Many people will, if given the opportunity, buy an ebook from the publisher if it's available.

So I'm sure that anyone who wants to remain in business as a publisher in a time when there is not enough market for a physical printed book to justify reprinting (Berglas a lucky exception--all my other books will sell out of their existing stock and that will be the end of that) MUST start offering digital versions of the titles. Minch will do it, and I will do it.

Brad, I deleted your most recent post because I asked you not to post in this thread again.

[Roger M.]

I don't entirely disagree with you Richard.

That ebooks target future customers at the expense of existing customers is a given........and un-stoppable.

That past customers, or the existing customer base is irrelevant is largely me complaining (whining if you will), and not something that's going to change anything.

I'm not sure folks will be able to read ebooks 10 or 15 years from now (how much software still runs from 15 years ago?)........but publishers exist largely to make money, and ebooks are definitely a profit center that will be seriously exploited by those in a position to exploit them.

The only remaining "grind" for me is when this is all hyped as making magic accessible.........when it's really all about maximizing profit at all costs.
It has nothing to do with helping people.

[mrgoat]

I'm not sure folks will be able to read ebooks 10 or 15 years from now (how much software still runs from 15 years ago?)

What you should ask is how many file formats used 10 or 15 years ago are accessible now. And it's pretty much all of them, isn't it? Heck most people are still using XP and that is 11 years old or thereabouts.

[Syd]

Richard,

I hope your post doesn't mean you will discontinue printed books in their entirety. Unfortunately, that may be the new business model but I hope not. Maybe publishers will consider the POD (Print on Demand) option so that those wishing a printed book can get one. I will completely destroy the resell market but that may be where we are headed anyway. I love ebooks but on occasion like the printed book.

Syd

[Jonathan Townsend]

The discussion of the relative merits and availability of magic literature is interesting.

The uninvited discussion of other people's business concerns and their profitability is not so interesting. Related topics including monopolistic pricing and market saturation are hardly unique to magic.

If it's sold on the open market it will also likey be found online where such things are to be found. If folks care about having some connection to the author and/or publisher they will likely purchase a version of the work.

[Roger M.]

The discussion of the relative merits and availability of magic literature is interesting.

I agree, it's very interesting.

The uninvited discussion of other people's business concerns and their profitability is not so interesting.

Who do you generally suggest issue those invitations?.....the person or company under discussion?....you?......I don't know how long you've been around forums, but invitations to participate in specific conversations aren't part of the model.
Further, because you don't find something interesting doesn't preclude it from discussion.

Related topics including monopolistic pricing and market saturation are hardly unique to magic.

So because a subject is "hardly unique to magic", it's not worth discussion in a forum on magic?
That's too ridiculous to comment on.

If it's sold on the open market it will also likey be found online where such things are to be found.

Not so. Perhaps 2% of all magic publications are currently available on file sharing sites. This will certainly go up with the publishers having done all the work for the traders, and making the cost of accessibility so low......that 2% should rise quickly to close to 100% of the ebooks made available for less than $20.00 each.

If folks care about having some connection to the author and/or publisher they will likely purchase a version of the work.

Not if the version of the work they want is long out of print and unavailable, and/or extremely expensive.
Of course now, with everything back "in print" and dirt cheap, one should fully expect to see everything publishers "e-publish" online, and available on file swapping sites for free.

[mrgoat]

The URL L&L have chosen for this fascinates me.

EPUB is a file format, like PDF. And it is a vastly superior format for ebooks. Allowing proper formatting of actual text, as opposed to a picture of text.

And the URL is llepub.com

And yet, there are no - that I can see - EPUB documents on the site.

It would be like having a store that sold CDs called THE VINYL 78 STORE.

I imagine no one involved in making the decision on the URL is aware of the format and the implications of their name.

[LL Publishing]

Damien,

Our main site is llpub.com, pub, obviously short for publishing.

We wanted to keep the brand association with the other domain name and have it an easy domain name to remember. It's really that simple.

While we do own llpublishing.com, it's not the URL most people are familiar with. If it were, the other domain name would have been llepublishing.com. We could have gone with llebooks.com, but it wasn't connected to the original url and we didn't want to limit the product line to just ebooks.

[Roger M.]

I'm not sure folks will be able to read ebooks 10 or 15 years from now (how much software still runs from 15 years ago?)

What you should ask is how many file formats used 10 or 15 years ago are accessible now. And it's pretty much all of them, isn't it? Heck most people are still using XP and that is 11 years old or thereabouts.

I came up short on the number of years, I should have said 20 years.

20 years ago ( for example) Apple had their System 6 and 7. If you had a proprietary document exclusive to that operating system, you'd not only have a hard time finding the application that created it, you'd likely be hard pressed to find a working Mac that even could host that operating system!

I've got books on my shelf from 100+ years ago........just pull 'em off the shelf and read 'em!

I'm actually not a Luddite when it comes to ebooks. I've got quite a few of them...........but if it's a book I can't live without, or one I want to pass on to my daughter, it's paper with a hard cover.

[LL Publishing]

EPUB is a file format, like PDF. And it is a vastly superior format for ebooks. Allowing proper formatting of actual text, as opposed to a picture of text.

We addressed the formatting issue in another thread when we announced the the new site. Here's what Richard had to say when someone asked about the epub format:

Considering the amount of work involved in performing OCR on all of the text, scanning all the illustrations and photos one at a time, and redoing the entire layout in order to prepare an older title for a more flexible appearance on various e-platforms--as a publisher I can tell you that it's unlikely to happen. Our market is too small.

It's extraordinarily labor intensive to recreate a book, and the potential economic return doesn't seem that it will make the investment of time and money worthwhile.

I was looking at my own titles on my iPad this afternoon (I do have pdfs of some of them), and they are perfectly and comfortably readable without any side-to-side scrolling when the iPad is in landscape orientation. Some of them, like 5 x 5: Japan, were perfectly easy to read when the iPad was in portrait orientation.

And here was our follow-up answer:

It should also be pointed out that besides the economic reasons Richard mentioned, reformatting has the potential for moving the illustrations/photographs to undesirable places in the text unless the entire book was recreated from scratch. Even if that were feasible from an economic standpoint, it would still be unlikely that there would be zero issues on every PDF reading device.

The iPad is the dominant tablet and these PDFs look really good on it with absolutely no scrolling necessary in both portrait and landscape.

[Jim Riser]

Anyone who has struggled with format problems combining text and graphics will tell you that the epub format is not vastly superior for all ebooks. It is great for text only or very limited included graphics. Been there done that and am waiting for an enhanced epub format which is much more designer friendly. I've got the software for creating the epub files and find the format too restrictive for graphics across multiple devices. PDF works much better on multiple devices and operating systems. The biggest problem with PDF is file size. The auto zip characteristic of epub greatly reduces file size at the expense of good layout. The technology is not yet up to the task.
Jim

[Bill Mullins]

When I'm reading a paper bound book that is densely footnoted (such as, for example, The Man Who Was Erdnase), I typically will insert two bookmarks so that I can quickly flip from text to note on the fly.

I've just started reading Robert Caro's biography of Lyndon Johnson (40 pages down, 5000 left to go . . . ) in epub format, and it's damn near impossible to jump back and forth. Either the format or the reader needs to improve.

[Jim Riser]

Bill,
What are you reading on and which reader are you using? I am playing with at least a half dozen epub readers on several devices and they do have differences. Several have a pop up navigation bar which allows faster/easier page jumping. When format for an epub is being set up, various links can be created for quicker navigation as with HTML. Not all readers are elegant in their operation and navigation. They are all a far cry from a real book. With epub the layout will not be the same on all devices/platforms. PDF always looks good but will require scrolling on smaller screens (phone and 7" tablets). Anyway, I am curious as to what device and reader you are using.
Jim

[magicam]

When I'm reading a paper bound book that is densely footnoted (such as, for example, The Man Who Was Erdnase), I typically will insert two bookmarks so that I can quickly flip from text to note on the fly.

I've just started reading Robert Caro's biography of Lyndon Johnson (40 pages down, 5000 left to go . . . ) in epub format, and it's damn near impossible to jump back and forth. Either the format or the reader needs to improve.

Bill, I dont have the Whaley/Busby book handy, but is their book footnoted or endnoted? Generally, I think of footnotes as appearing at the bottom of the page (thereby avoid incessant page flipping) and endnotes as being placed at the end of the chapter or somewhere at the end of the book (thus requiring page flipping). As a reader who enjoys reading references, I far prefer footnotes for reading continuity, and thats how I write my articles when references are used.

[mrgoat]

Anyone who has struggled with format problems combining text and graphics will tell you that the epub format is not vastly superior for all ebooks. It is great for text only or very limited included graphics. Been there done that

Sorry you struggled with it, I found it very easy. I'm not sure you're aware of what you can actually do with epub, here's a little video that might bring you up to speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZCBRTG ... ure=fvwrel

[mrgoat]

Damien,

Stove,

Our main site is llpub.com, pub, obviously short for publishing.

We wanted to keep the brand association with the other domain name and have it an easy domain name to remember. It's really that simple.

What's the benefit of having a separate site?

While we do own llpublishing.com, it's not the URL most people are familiar with. If it were, the other domain name would have been llepublishing.com. We could have gone with llebooks.com, but it wasn't connected to the original url

You could have gone with something that would have helped SEO, ebooksformagicians.com for example, is available. Or just llpub.com/ebooks.

and we didn't want to limit the product line to just ebooks.

So what does L&L E-Publishing plan to sell on the domain that isn't ebooks?

[mrgoat]

We addressed the formatting issue in another thread when we announced the the new site. Here's what Richard had to say when someone asked about the epub format:

Yes you did. You don't want to spend any money formatting it properly when you can just scan it and sell it with no extra work thus making you even more money for hardly any effort.

Fits in well with the current L&L model.

[Jim Riser]

Goat,
Why do you not assemble a short 5 page epub with 12 jpgs nicely formatted to run on multiple devices and platforms to show all of us how easy it is? Pics need to be an appropriate size for each page on all devices. Put your superior skills and knowledge into something we can all test on our devices. One epub for all devices as can be done with PDF. Show all of us that you are right. I would love to be shown that I am incorrect about epub. Since it is so easy, it should not take you too long - an hour ought to do it.

We await your simple project.
Jim

[Ian Kendall]

"So what does L&L E-Publishing plan to sell on the domain that isn't ebooks?"

I'm guessing we'll see video downloads in the not too distant future...

[LL Publishing]

Wow! Lots of posts since last night.

Since this thread has gone off-topic (the original topic was off-topic for this section) and everyone is talking about ebooks, we're going to reply in the L&L ebook thread in the Buzz section.

http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=266076#Post266076

This thread keeps getting pushed to the top and people are trying to sell items, so it's not fair to them. Who knows, someone might be wanting to sell their Cups & Balls Deluxe Edition and we're screwing it up for them.

[Kevin Connolly]

I don't mind. I enjoy it being posted here.

[mrgoat]

Goat,
Why do you not assemble a short 5 page epub with 12 jpgs nicely formatted to run on multiple devices and platforms to show all of us how easy it is? Pics need to be an appropriate size for each page on all devices. Put your superior skills and knowledge into something we can all test on our devices. One epub for all devices as can be done with PDF. Show all of us that you are right. I would love to be shown that I am incorrect about epub. Since it is so easy, it should not take you too long - an hour ought to do it.

We await your simple project.
Jim

Did you not see the video I posted showing you how good EPUB 3 is? Did you not quite understand it maybe?

Here's a couple more to show you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHa5anYJq84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1aJB5L_0O8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHwFEGAgHi0

I'm a little busy to do an hour's free work to educate you about EPUB 3 Jim. If you would like some paid for consultancy, more than happy to help. Email me damian AT adultmarketing DOT co DOT uk and we can discuss some consultancy to help you understand what the technology can do today.

All the best

Damian

[Roger M.]

Despite the protestations to the contrary, it's somewhat disheartening to read the blurb for the Vernon Chronicles book from L&L's "ebook" web sales site.

After many comments from L&L about their ebooks not impacting their previously released hardcovers value, nor their hardcovers availability on the secondary market............L&L themselves state (to the contrary) in their ad for the Ebook that:

Long out of print and commanding high prices on the secondary market, the first volume of this landmark series is back!

........and then proceed to sell the ebook for $19.95.

[Richard Kaufman]

Damien, I think you're missing the point that both Steve (L&L) and I are making: the expense and time required to prepare books for epub format (not to mention the problems of the illustrations potentially moving around from device to device) make it an unacceptable business model at the moment.

The only acceptable business model is straight pdf files.

Now since we are in the magic publishing business and have been for decades, and you are not, perhaps you'll give us the benefit of the doubt--perhaps, just perhaps, we know the economics of our market better than you?

[Bill Mullins]

Bill, I dont have the Whaley/Busby book handy, but is their book footnoted or endnoted?

Bill,
What are you reading on and which reader are you using? I am playing with at least a half dozen epub readers on several devices and they do have differences. Several have a pop up navigation bar which allows faster/easier page jumping. When format for an epub is being set up, various links can be created for quicker navigation as with HTML. Not all readers are elegant in their operation and navigation. They are all a far cry from a real book. With epub the layout will not be the same on all devices/platforms. PDF always looks good but will require scrolling on smaller screens (phone and 7" tablets). Anyway, I am curious as to what device and reader you are using.
Jim

Clay is absolutely correct: TMWWE uses endnotes, organized by chapters at the end of the book, and not footnotes.

The Caro book doesn't even do that. The notes are at the end of the book, but aren't numbered. The first few words of a quote are repeated, with the source following, or significant passages are referenced. For example:

"It's an impressive": Penn Kimball, "Robert Kennedy," Life magazine, 1966. Cuban fishing boats: Schlesinger, Robert Kennedy, p. 636. "There was": vanden Heuvel interview.

This style of notes is not very disruptive to a narrative (and narrative is what Caro excels at) if you aren't the sort of reader who cares about notes, but it means that if you go from the text to the note, there is no direct path and you have to find the note in question, buried somewhere within a chapter's worth of notes; and vice versa, if you go from the note back to the text, you have to find the spot on the page where you left from. The only way to navigate within the book is by page numbers on the slider, or by chapters in the table of contents. A single page from the original paper book takes 2-3 screens of tablet, so even if you know you are going back to page 205 from the end notes, you've still got to search back and forth on screens of text a bit to find where you stopped reading.

I use an Aldiko reader on a Vizio (Android) tablet. Aldiko seems to be a pretty prominent reader app. If there's a better one I should be using, let me know.

It may be that the book is spectacularly poorly formatted -- whoever did it seems only to have imported the text into the epub format. The marginal cost to the publisher may have been small (as has been pointed out so many times above), but it really painful to jump back and forth with.

[mrgoat]

Damien, I think you're missing the point that both Steve (L&L) and I are making: the expense and time required to prepare books for epub format (not to mention the problems of the illustrations potentially moving around from device to device) make it an unacceptable business model at the moment.

That's not been said, and wasn't what I was taking issue with, Rochard. I think everyone (you, Riser, Stove) said PDF was the best format and EPUB was a bad format. Hopefully I've illustrated with the videos I've posted educate everyone that EPUB is a HIGHLY superior format to PDF.

As for illustrations moving, check the videos I posted. You're completely wrong.

The only acceptable business model is straight pdf files.

The cheapest and easiest format is straight PDF files. Best book format? No. Best for the customers? No. Cheapest and easiest, of course.

I guess it depends if you want to make the best product, or the one that is easiest to produce and will yield you the most money.

I think you're entitled to make as much money as possible making your books. No problem with that. I just took issue with Riser and Stove trying to make out a PDF was "better" than epub 3. It's not. As I've (hopefully) demonstrated with the video links showing what you can do with EPUB 3 that you can't do with PDF.

That's all.

Anyone can make any book in any format they wish to maximise revenue.

That doesn't mean a flat PDF is a better electronic book experience. It's a more profitable one, no doubt. And you are totally within your rights to release a product that yields you more cash, despite it not being the best experience for your customers.

[mrgoat]

Despite the protestations to the contrary, it's somewhat disheartening to read the blurb for the Vernon Chronicles book from L&L's "ebook" web sales site.

After many comments from L&L about their ebooks not impacting their previously released hardcovers value, nor their hardcovers availability on the secondary market............L&L themselves state (to the contrary) in their ad for the Ebook that:

Long out of print and commanding high prices on the secondary market, the first volume of this landmark series is back!

........and then proceed to sell the ebook for $19.95.

Seems odd to me Stove from L&L decides to take me to task for suggesting EPUB is better than PDF yet leaves the above post ignored...

Wonder why?

[LL Publishing]

There's nothing more to say than has already been said.

Roger is obviously not in favor of our ebooks. I'm curious if he's going to give the same grief to Kaufman & Co or Hermetic Press when they release their ebooks.

[Tom Stone]

Sorry you struggled with it, I found it very easy. I'm not sure you're aware of what you can actually do with epub, here's a little video that might bring you up to speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZCBRTG ... ure=fvwrel

...so what you, supposedly, want to illustrate is that it is possible to just press the export button, and animations, sound FX and music will automatically appear at all the proper places, all without any extra effort?
...And it will look the same on all the devices that currently can display PDFs?

[Jim Riser]

Goat;
It is soooooo easy to post links to the work of expensive experts showing features possible with the epub format. These examples are things like 10-24 page childrens' books which took a TEAM of EXPENSIVE experts perhaps a month to put together.

Doing this with a magic book of say 250 pages and 400 illustrations would be a formatting nightmare that still might only display correctly on say a Nook reader.

This is a difficult and expensive proposition that magic publishers certainly could not afford. Anyone with half a business sense knows this fact.

Hell, YOU can not even put together the little challenge I proposed above - instead choosing to put out a smoke screen of "hire me" blather. I would not hire you to sweep the floor in my workshop. You would just stand there telling me better ways to sweep and all the time getting nothing accomplished. The fact is simply that you can not produce the challenge issued above. As I have said before "talk is cheap". Let's see some product from you rather than the incessant blather.

It appears that you should stick to your porn business - something you might know about.

@Roger;
Yes, the ebooks will devalue the value of your collection. The same devaluation happens when a book is issued as a paperback or a VHS tape is issued as a DVD. It is termed progress. And progress moves on no matter the financial consequences to the little guy. I feel and understand your pain. I just consider it all to be part of the game of life. Some things are good financial investments and some are not. The question to ask yourself is whether you felt the books purchased were worth the cost when you bought them. Gaining knowledge and skills is never free. I do not regret any book purchases I ever made as I feel they all enriched my life at the time (and many continue to do so).

I have a shop full of obsolete machines which may or may not be worth what I paid for them. I do not care about their value as all have earned their keep over the years and continue to do so. I am just grateful that the machines and books were ever made in the first place. New things always come along. Some of these are an improvement and some seem to be a step backwards. Life goes on and I look at the new ebook offerings as an opportunity to obtain materials that I could not afford while buying machines, raising a family, college expenses, etc.

Roger, try to look at it as an opportunity. It will be much easier on your blood pressure and possibly add years to your life.
Jim

[erdnasephile]

Although I understand and empathize with the disappointment one may feel when a treasured volume is reprinted, I try to take a balanced view because I have been the beneficiary of reprints such as "Neo Magic", "Greater Magic", "The Secret Ways of Al Baker", "Ken Brooke's Magic Place", etc., that have allowed me to study previously difficult to obtain material. Therefore, IMHO, it would seem rather churlish of me to forbid the same benefit to others.

In addition, I have yet to sell 99% of the magic books I have ever purchased, so any resell value that could possibly be impacted by reprints and ebooks remains largely theoretical for me. Is not the same true for the majority of books in most folk's collections?

Finally, in terms of reprints putting cherished material in the hands of the "unworthy", I take comfort in the thought that regardless of how many times a gem is reprinted, I suspect the frequency at which such material will be studied and actually performed for real people will likely not change much (and I'll still have the material largely to myself! :) )

[mrgoat]

Sorry you struggled with it, I found it very easy. I'm not sure you're aware of what you can actually do with epub, here's a little video that might bring you up to speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZCBRTG ... ure=fvwrel

...so what you, supposedly, want to illustrate is that it is possible to just press the export button, and animations, sound FX and music will automatically appear at all the proper places, all without any extra effort?
...And it will look the same on all the devices that currently can display PDFs?

Nope, trying to show that EPUB is better than PDF.

Sorry for the confusion.

[mrgoat]

Goat;
It is soooooo easy to post links to the work of expensive experts showing features possible with the epub format. These examples are things like 10-24 page childrens' books which took a TEAM of EXPENSIVE experts perhaps a month to put together.

Doing this with a magic book of say 250 pages and 400 illustrations would be a formatting nightmare that still might only display correctly on say a Nook reader.

This is a difficult and expensive proposition that magic publishers certainly could not afford. Anyone with half a business sense knows this fact.

Hell, YOU can not even put together the little challenge I proposed above - instead choosing to put out a smoke screen of "hire me" blather. I would not hire you to sweep the floor in my workshop. You would just stand there telling me better ways to sweep and all the time getting nothing accomplished. The fact is simply that you can not produce the challenge issued above. As I have said before "talk is cheap". Let's see some product from you rather than the incessant blather.

It appears that you should stick to your porn business - something you might know about.

OK Riser, send me over some pictures and text and I will put one together for you for free just solely to demonstrate how horrifically wrong you are. It will be worth it to shut you up and get you to stop your seemingly continual ad hominem attacks.

If I do this, you then have to add to your sig "I was wrong and Damian was right. EPUB is MUCH better than PDF for books"

Deal?

Send the content through to damian AT adultmarketing DOT co DOT uk and I'll show you quite how easy it is if you have the right tools and a clue.