Another one to avoid

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kenguru
Posts: 51
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Hungary

Another one to avoid

Postby kenguru » February 21st, 2006, 2:00 am

I just ended a nasty communication exchange with an ebay seller with the ID "outlawin".

I bought a Gary Kurtz book (Leading With Your Head booklet actually) from this seller, and when it arrived it was clear (from the photocopier's black marks of the place the original binding holes were, and the whole low quality of the print) it is a photocopy.

I wrote the seller believing that he made a mistake of not checking before selling (since he wrote on the ebay ad he found it in an attic from an estate sale - how naive I was), and offering to send him an expert's opinion by a publisher here. He ignored the offer and lashed out at me.

I would advise against buying from him (even though some of his other stuff might be original - though I doubt it).

Just thought it might help others.

Haim
Haim

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magicam
Posts: 908
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Another one to avoid

Postby magicam » February 21st, 2006, 6:17 am

Interesting "attic find" - "grandpa" must've been around 35 years old when he died...

Sorry to hear about this. Also annoying is the $8 postage charge per item (no matter what it is) AND the richardcranium won't combine shipping, so 4 pamphlets would cost $32 in shipping....

Bill Mullins
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Re: Another one to avoid

Postby Bill Mullins » February 21st, 2006, 9:15 am

Why screw a person only one way, when it is possible to do it to them several ways at once?

Bill Mullins
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Re: Another one to avoid

Postby Bill Mullins » February 21st, 2006, 9:26 am

If you want to spend a couple of dollars on postage, etc., to make this person's life more "interesting", do the following:

Write a letter to

Postal Inspector
[city where outlawin lives]
[state], [zip code]
United States

and say:

Dear Postal Inspector,

I recently purchased by mail order what was represented to be a book by Gary Kurtz. When I received it, it turned out to be a photocopy of a book. The photocopy has no value, compared to the original, collectible book. As I understand United States law, this is mail fraud. Please investigate. I will file charges if it is appropriate.

I have tried to get a refund, but the seller is not cooperating.

[give the seller's name and location, and other pertinent info].

Sincerely,

xxxxxx


Do a similar letter addressed to:

District Attorney
[city]
[state]
United States.

Copy the seller on both letters.

This will get much better results than ebay feedback.

I did this once, and the seller asked me "PLEASE" to retract the charges -- they gave me extra merchandise to make it right.

You may not get this guy put into jail, but you can probably make him nervous enough to refund your money (and if two or three screwed buyers do this, maybe he'll even stop).

Note that "mail fraud" can occur even if the shipper uses UPS to ship to you - If the mail was used at any point in the transaction (if you mailed U.S. funds, if a U.S. Postal money order was used), then the Postal Inspector has jurisdiction to investigate.

If the mail was not used at all, "wire fraud" may still have occured (since the internet uses phone lines and other electronic means of communication), and write to the appropriate Federal District Attorney.

Note also that U.S. law (specifically, the Commercial Code) often trumps any disclaimers the seller may put into an auction description (I'm thinking specifically of claims that insurance is the responsibility of the buyer).

Guest

Re: Another one to avoid

Postby Guest » February 21st, 2006, 9:37 am

Bill,

That is an excellent idea - I will file it away for my future use!

Thanks,

Dave Klaiber (omk)

Guest

Re: Another one to avoid

Postby Guest » February 21st, 2006, 11:32 am

You should also report this to eBay, make a claim against eBay as they may suspend someone for selling counterfiet or photocopied works.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB StageCraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
Have you got your copy of The complete THE MENTALIST yet?

Bill Mullins
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Re: Another one to avoid

Postby Bill Mullins » February 21st, 2006, 12:08 pm

Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
You should also report this to eBay, make a claim against eBay as they may suspend someone for selling counterfiet or photocopied works.
I'd be glad to be wrong on this, but I think the only way eBay would take action is if Gary Kurtz were a VERO participant, and made the claim on his own behalf.

kenguru
Posts: 51
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Another one to avoid

Postby kenguru » February 21st, 2006, 1:22 pm

Thanks for all the clever ideas (I too filed your idea Bill).

I do not want to make that much trouble for him (certainly not send him to jail).

To be fair he offered I send him the book back and then if my claim was true he would refund (of course at the same time he was also calling me a trouble maker and a dishonest person just trying to scam him). I answered that since my trust in him - how shell I put it - was not complete anymore, I do not want to pay more for the return shipment (above the $24 I already paid) AND send him my only proof (which he could easily say is a copy I made). I offered to have an expert's advice from a book publisher here, and when he refunded (including shipping expenses for the return) I will send the book back. I read somewhere (I think at the PayPal site) that that is what they advise. He refused (and called me some more names).

What I would really like is to make this copy legal. Does anyone have Gary Kurtz's email address? Maybe I can send him the money for it.

Thanks for all the help.

Haim
Haim

Jacky Kahan
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Joined: March 16th, 2008, 4:55 pm
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Re: Another one to avoid

Postby Jacky Kahan » February 21st, 2006, 1:28 pm

Hi Haim!

I once bought a poster and when arrived i discovered it was a "self printed copy" claiming to be an original.. I complained and after a few weeks i was refunded...and could keep the poster... if i would not put a negative feedback... i regret today because they still sell posters...today... but it's written in very small print that they are NOT originals...

C u Later...
Jacky
www.magicbooks.be

Bill Mullins
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Re: Another one to avoid

Postby Bill Mullins » February 21st, 2006, 1:46 pm

Originally posted by Haim Schlesinger:
I do not want to pay more for the return shipment (above the $24 I already paid) AND send him my only proof (which he could easily say is a copy I made).
If I were pressing for a refund, I would draft the letters I mentioned above, and send them to the seller with the statement I would mail them to the appropriate authorities if I did not receive a full refund (postage included). Further, since the copy that I received was not what I ordered, I would consider it to be unsolicited. Postal regulations say you can keep for free anything sent to you unsolicited. If they want it back, they've got to come up with return postage as well.

These people are crooks. Don't treat them like it was a mistake, and don't try to accomodate them by splitting costs.

kenguru
Posts: 51
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Another one to avoid

Postby kenguru » February 21st, 2006, 1:46 pm

Hi Jacky,

I did give him a negative feedback (two actually). Of course he did the same (calling me a scammer). I hope it will help others and make him think twice before doing this again.

C u later as in Blackpool? Are you coming after all? I am leaving for Blackpool on Thursday.

Haim
Haim

kenguru
Posts: 51
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Another one to avoid

Postby kenguru » February 21st, 2006, 1:49 pm

Bill,

I might do just that when I return next week.

Thanks for the detailed suggestion :cool:

Haim
Haim

Guest

Re: Another one to avoid

Postby Guest » February 21st, 2006, 4:03 pm

Wow,
From this seller, I bought a t.a. waters video,yeah with the eight dollars postage,and am still waiting for it 3 weeks later.I must say I only saw 100% positive feedback left for this seller, which clearly is inconsistent with how he trreats buyers.

kenguru
Posts: 51
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Another one to avoid

Postby kenguru » February 21st, 2006, 11:26 pm

caesar,

Not necessarily. If it would have not been a photocopy but the original, I would probably have given him a positive feedback myself (though I don't like all the A+++ and such superlatives that are quite often used). I paid and he shipped (it took a month to arrive, but that happens sometimes with airmail), though 3 weeks is very long if it is within the US.

Haim
Haim


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