a famous saying

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MitsuMatsu
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a famous saying

Postby MitsuMatsu » April 7th, 2014, 6:25 pm

Does anyone know the original French sentence for "A magician is an actor playing the role of a magician" and where Robert-Houdin said so?
I wonder whether the original sentence defines the word 'magician' with a word ‘magician’ illogically, or it was translated incorrectly.

Pete McCabe
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Re: a famous saying

Postby Pete McCabe » April 7th, 2014, 6:43 pm

"Un prestidigitateur n'est point un jongleur; c'est un acteur jouant un role de magicien."

There's a thread on this saying here:

http://forums.geniimagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31758&start=40

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: a famous saying

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 7th, 2014, 6:47 pm

Regarding that thread, the beginning of which is here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31758

It was started by me as an "op-ed" regarding a fascinating column by Roberto Giobbi, the conclusions of which I disagreed with.

It's also worth noting that, when we moved the site to the new server, something happened to a lot of he punctuation and even spacing making it hard to read in some cases. But it's worth the time (I think).

Dustin

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: a famous saying

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 7th, 2014, 11:49 pm

Dustin, all punctuation looks fine to me. I hope you're not still using IE. Get rid of that stupid browser. :) Firefox or Chrome work much better.
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Dustin Stinett
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Re: a famous saying

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 8th, 2014, 1:21 am

It's the same on Chrome and Firefox for me. Not a single apostrophe to be seen and a boatload of missing spaces.

Go figure.

MitsuMatsu
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Re: a famous saying

Postby MitsuMatsu » April 8th, 2014, 6:30 am

So lengthy thread for non-English speaking foreigner, but this seems important.
I will try to read them through your points.
Thank you, anyway!
Last edited by MitsuMatsu on April 8th, 2014, 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: a famous saying

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 8th, 2014, 10:29 am

MitsuMatsu wrote:So lengthy thread for non-English speaking foreigner, but this aeems important.
I will try to read them through your points.
Thank you, anyway!


It's a language/reading challenge. French is idiomatic and there's some cultural context in R-H's writing. The term "false friend" refers to an expression which translates literally to mean one thing yet in native usage the term conveys a different meaning. Angelo Lewis, (Hoffmann) the English translator is nearer our (USA) language in attitude and yet has his own disposition and perspective. Looking through three layers of language. This matter of data distorted in translation can more directly be seen in the Sharpe/Fischer work on Hofzinser in that paperback. Getting back to R-H's advice - he took a conversational tone and wrote as if wishing to take the reader into confidence, using informal language.

As JP wrote earlier - it's about what we can do now. Not using the available tools or remaining ignorant of available tools are not usually the best of choices.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Bill Mullins
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Re: a famous saying

Postby Bill Mullins » April 8th, 2014, 5:22 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote: This matter of data distorted in translation can more directly be seen in the Sharpe/Fischer work on Hofzinser in that paperback.


I have that paperback. Would you care to describe something you feel is poorly translated, and offer a more accurate one?

MitsuMatsu
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Re: a famous saying

Postby MitsuMatsu » April 8th, 2014, 6:00 pm

Johnathan, Thanks for your good advice!

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: a famous saying

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 8th, 2014, 6:32 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
Jonathan Townsend wrote: This matter of data distorted in translation can more directly be seen in the Sharpe/Fischer work on Hofzinser in that paperback.


I have that paperback. Would you care to describe something you feel is poorly translated, and offer a more accurate one?


In the case of the Hofzinser->student(s)->Fischer->Sharpe - it's the supposed improvements and editor's notes. I doubt Hofzinser used what he felt to be inferior, inefficient or awkward methods. PS I put a photo of my copy of the book on mobile uploads page :) Next to the pic of that page in More Magic that launched the fingertips stuff for me.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time


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