I Wand to Hear From You

Discuss the historical aspects of magic, including memories, or favorite stories.
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Richard Kaufman
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I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 24th, 2008, 11:04 am

Someone just sent me this e-mail, which is interesting if true:

"While reading an old volume describing misdirection using the wand it occurred to me that the word "wand" is the only "-and" word in English that is pronounced that way. Band,hand, land, and sand all rhyme. Poets would have a difficult time with "wand". I wonder whether this is because a wand was unique, or special or "magical", and, as such, received its special pronunciation. Any magical word historians care to weigh in? And while we're at it, why does magic only rhyme with tragic?"
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Ian Kendall
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Ian Kendall » September 24th, 2008, 11:10 am

I very much doubt the pronounciation is due to a wand being 'magical'. If that were the case, we would be wandering around the country in a very strange way.

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Joe Pecore
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Joe Pecore » September 24th, 2008, 11:22 am

Not sure why rhyming would be an issues. Lots of "ond" words rhyme with wand: pond, bond, blonde.

Swan would also rhyme.
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 24th, 2008, 11:52 am

Wand - Middle English by way of Scandanavian?

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Naphtalia
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Naphtalia » September 24th, 2008, 12:01 pm

From one of my favorite internet resources, the OnLine Etymology Dictionary (http://www.etymonline.com/),

magic (n.)
c.1384, "art of influencing events and producing marvels," from O.Fr. magique, from L. magice "sorcery, magic," from Gk. magike (presumably with tekhne "art"), fem. of magikos "magical," from magos "one of the members of the learned and priestly class," from O.Pers. magush, possibly from PIE *magh- "to be able, to have power" (see machine). Displaced O.E. wiccecrft (see witch); also drycrft, from dry "magician," from Ir. drui "priest, magician" (see druid). Transferred sense of "legerdemain, optical illusion, etc." is from 1811. Magic carpet first attested 1909. Magic Marker (1956) is a reg. trademark (U.S.) by Speedry Products, Inc., Richmond Hill, N.Y. Magic lantern "optical instrument whereby a magnified image is thrown upon a wall or screen" is 1696, from Mod.L. laterna magica.

and

wand
c.1200, from O.N. vondr "rod, switch," (cf. Goth. wandus "rod," M.Swed. vander), from P.Gmc. *wend- "to turn," see wind (v.)). The notion is of a bending, flexible stick. Cf. cognate O.N. veggr, O.E. wag "wall," O.S., Du. wand, O.H.G. want, Ger. Wand "wall," orig. "wickerwork for making walls," or "wall made of wattle-work" (an insight into early Gmc. domestic architecture). Magic wand is attested from c.1400 and shows the etymological sense of "suppleness" already had been lost.

That won't help with the rhyming, but might provide something of interest.
Naphtalia


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Greg Edmonds
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Greg Edmonds » September 24th, 2008, 3:25 pm

Ironically, though the popular current movement "Wicca" espouses the female dominant hierarchy, the original term "Wicca" is from the Old-English, and it means, literally, "A man [as opposed to a person] who practices witchcraft (maleficent magic)."

Please note that I didn't derive the above from an online dictionary (though I enjoy reading them, too, they're generally not vetted by universally acknowledged experts). The definition listed is from an Oxford University Press publication. The latter may not mean much to some, but it gets my vote for the best researched material. I just checked the OnLine Etymology Dictionary; it shares the same basic definition.

In any event, thanks, Nephtalia, for sharing the site. I'll add it to my Complete Oxford English Dictionary Of The English Language (and multiple other dictionaries, some foreign -- the older tomes have quaint and often very different definitions for modern words).

Greg

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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Steve V » September 24th, 2008, 3:33 pm

I'm with Ian. Wand would only seem unusual if the word Wander was pronounced like 'lander'. Me thinks the W changes the way the word is pronounced and nothing deeper is to be found.
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Greg Edmonds
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Greg Edmonds » September 24th, 2008, 3:43 pm

I forgot to mention.

Richard, most (if not, in fact, all of the similarly spelled words you listed) once did, and in some regions still do, roughly (and in some cases precisely), rhyme with "wand" in the United Kingdom. I'm not sure which older publication you're referring to, and when it was published, but England first developed English, as a language, after having spoken French as its native tongue for generations, at around the time of the early Medieval period, with more modern English coming into being during the Elizabethan era.

I am assuming, of course, your E-mail correspondent's book was written in English.

I hope this helps with your inquiry/enquiry.

Greg

Greg Edmonds
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Greg Edmonds » September 24th, 2008, 3:55 pm

One final addition: "Magic," in parts of the old and new UK, once again (remember, the English had the language before the Americans) rhymes with "logic," as well as "tragic."

Greg

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 24th, 2008, 4:25 pm

Greg, how can "magic" rhyme with "logic"? I've spent plenty of time in the UK, but haven't heard that. You're going to end up with either "mogic" or "lagic." (Folks in Boston might make a rhyme out of the latter.)
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Ian Kendall » September 24th, 2008, 4:30 pm

Bizarrely, I can - in my head - hear how magic would rhyme with logic; a kind of mawgic. I can even hear the accent that would go with it, but I can't place it. Belfast, maybe?

Ee-ann.

Greg Edmonds
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Greg Edmonds » September 24th, 2008, 5:11 pm

Richard: I, too, have had a great deal of exposure to folk from various regions of the United Kingdom, especially in my matriculating days.

Those of what were once regarded the "upper crusty's" of society, found in London, some in the Northern regions, and in the upper echelons of the Cambridge and Oxford regions very frequently, as Ian points out (and he should, of course, know better than either of us) that "Mawgic" (which rhymes with 'logic,' as I noted) is a quite common rhyme scheme, representative of expressing virtually any word with the letter "A" appearing at the word's beginning, between two consonants.

Perhaps we here things differently, but I stick to my explanation.

Greg

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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Ian Kendall » September 24th, 2008, 5:20 pm

I had in mind a more rural accent, and certainly not Home Counties (which would be the 'upper class' type referenced by Greg). For my sins I spent eleven years in boarding schools, where the accent was definitely more Home Counties (even in Scotland), and I never heard anyone use the 'mawgic' pronounciation.

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000
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby 000 » September 26th, 2008, 6:35 am

Magic and tragic in rhyme

Can you beat it? by C.M. Forbes ( Sphinx, Feb 1921)

A card manipulator
On the stage in a theatre
Can find your card no matter what your call.
But when I play at poker
They say I am a joker
I cannot find the card I want at all.
So I think I'll study magic
That my luck shall be less tragic
Next time the fellows ask me what I've got,
I am very proud to show it
A Royal Flush, the hand that beats the lot.

opie
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby opie » September 26th, 2008, 10:27 am

I did a search for "wand" in an on-line rhyming dictionary and came up with the following:

http://www.rhymezone.com/r/ss.cgi?mode=k&loc=rz&q=wand

Google "rhyming dictionary" and plug in "magic" to see what you get...Oh, never mind; here is what Shakespeare said:

http://www.rhymezone.com/r/ss.cgi?mode=k&loc=rz&q=magic

opie (MA, English)

Dick Christian
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Dick Christian » September 26th, 2008, 8:11 pm

Nothing to do with wands or magic, but as long as we're on the subject of rhyming, I believe that "orange" is the only word in English for which there is no rhyme. Which brings to mind the probably apocryphal tale of the person who asked a famous author (I can't recall who)"Do you know that sugar is the only word in the English language in which the letters "su" are pronounced like "sh?" To which the author instantly replied "Sure."
Dick Christian

John Wilson
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby John Wilson » September 26th, 2008, 9:28 pm

Dick,
What about "purple"? I am convinced there have to be others...

Pete McCabe
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Re: I Wand to Hear From You

Postby Pete McCabe » September 26th, 2008, 9:40 pm

Silver. (?)


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