Cups, cups, cups
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Richard Mendez
- Posts: 32
- Joined: July 8th, 2008, 10:31 am
- Favorite Magician: Gregory Wilson
- Location: San Antonio, TX
- Contact:
Re: Cups, cups, cups
As a professional magician, I am crushed and ashamed to see the magic community behave like this. I have lost a great deal of respect for many professionals who let egos, gossiping and greed get the best of them. Particularly Jim Riser, a man I hold in such high esteem. Jim Riser is one of the most incredibly talented individuals in the world. Not just the magic community. Read the bios posted on his site. A multi-faceted, multi-dimensional master craftsman and genious in my eyes. I don't even pretend to understand the profound depths of this man. To see him behave this simply shatters the awe for me.
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Dennis, first off I have no record of any reminders and if payment was not recieved you should have called, if you didn't recieve any replies, here's an idea pick up the phone or mail a reminder. Your post in regards to this shows you too are very unprofessional.
Of course the names you mentioned have problems with RNT II, they are the bandwagon clan that has ganged up on. As to your statement of honest and ethical, boy are you going to have egg on your face when everything comes out in the open.
As to the bill, send a duplicate copy of the invoice to info@rnt2.com and I'll check the invoice against the accountants books. For crying out loud man, take a course in business ethics with the money from the sale, you need it after making a post like this in public.
Of course the names you mentioned have problems with RNT II, they are the bandwagon clan that has ganged up on. As to your statement of honest and ethical, boy are you going to have egg on your face when everything comes out in the open.
As to the bill, send a duplicate copy of the invoice to info@rnt2.com and I'll check the invoice against the accountants books. For crying out loud man, take a course in business ethics with the money from the sale, you need it after making a post like this in public.
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Bill Palmer
- Posts: 719
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Houston TX
- Contact:
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Jacob:
My review on the Magic Cafe plainly stated that these cups were not the same as Paul Fox cups. That was to inform the real collectors that you didn't quite have it together. Most of them picked up on it.
Regarding the "seconds," if the fellow I know who purchased the cups couldn't see the kinked rim, which, by the way, was not what you mentioned in your ad, I'm sure that it wasn't there. I learned of this after I placed my last order with you for an aluminum mini Don Alan chop cup, which I have not yet received.
I have actually stayed fairly much out of the fray, preferring to take a neutral stance on this.
The cup collectors are a fairly tight group. We pass information from one to another. Why did you offer other purchasers of these so-called Paul Fox cups properly made replacements, and not offer the same thing to me?
My review on the Magic Cafe plainly stated that these cups were not the same as Paul Fox cups. That was to inform the real collectors that you didn't quite have it together. Most of them picked up on it.
Regarding the "seconds," if the fellow I know who purchased the cups couldn't see the kinked rim, which, by the way, was not what you mentioned in your ad, I'm sure that it wasn't there. I learned of this after I placed my last order with you for an aluminum mini Don Alan chop cup, which I have not yet received.
I have actually stayed fairly much out of the fray, preferring to take a neutral stance on this.
The cup collectors are a fairly tight group. We pass information from one to another. Why did you offer other purchasers of these so-called Paul Fox cups properly made replacements, and not offer the same thing to me?
Bill Palmer, MIMC
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Bill
contrair, the ad clearly stated there were Divets on rim of the cups were the bead did not roll correctly, also 1 or 2 sets had beads that did not meet up to the outter edge of the cup.
Again I have to refer to peoples reading habits, even yours Bill, I'm sorry. In the past post here I mentioned the few that did email were told another set was going to be sent, on the other hand the people that did not were in for a pleasant suprise. We are just going to mail them out to the people with no notice. So dont' feel left out Bill, just pick up on a complete post rather pick it apart. So now the suprise it out and had you just sent an email everyone would have been pleasantly suprised, but no, the bandwagon campaign against RNT II has to tredge on.
As to your Mini Don, again a forum is not the place to mention this simply because this is the first you have said anything. NEVER in all our shipments to you of the orders you have placed have you ever been stiffed or not taken care of. This just seems more like just another Jab at RNT II. Here's a really great idea, open outlook express and click new message and type in jake@rnt2.com and put a note in there stating Hey Jake the cup hasn't arrived. If an ebay or Tannens order doesn't show up do you immediately come to a forum, join a discussion and conveniently add "oh I haven't recieved my item?"
contrair, the ad clearly stated there were Divets on rim of the cups were the bead did not roll correctly, also 1 or 2 sets had beads that did not meet up to the outter edge of the cup.
Again I have to refer to peoples reading habits, even yours Bill, I'm sorry. In the past post here I mentioned the few that did email were told another set was going to be sent, on the other hand the people that did not were in for a pleasant suprise. We are just going to mail them out to the people with no notice. So dont' feel left out Bill, just pick up on a complete post rather pick it apart. So now the suprise it out and had you just sent an email everyone would have been pleasantly suprised, but no, the bandwagon campaign against RNT II has to tredge on.
As to your Mini Don, again a forum is not the place to mention this simply because this is the first you have said anything. NEVER in all our shipments to you of the orders you have placed have you ever been stiffed or not taken care of. This just seems more like just another Jab at RNT II. Here's a really great idea, open outlook express and click new message and type in jake@rnt2.com and put a note in there stating Hey Jake the cup hasn't arrived. If an ebay or Tannens order doesn't show up do you immediately come to a forum, join a discussion and conveniently add "oh I haven't recieved my item?"
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Bill Palmer
- Posts: 719
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Houston TX
- Contact:
Re: Cups, cups, cups
I don't use Outlook Express. I also don't take well to sarcasm.
If you want to air your dirty laundry here on Genii Forum, Jake, I can give more than you even know.
Maybe you should take care of your loose ends.
Again, why did you offer the "corrected Paul Fox" to other people, but not to me. If I get hold of the set of cups that I heard of that you sent out as factory seconds, and I can't find the mistakes on them with a magnifying glass, you can bet that I will let everyone know about it.
If you want to air your dirty laundry here on Genii Forum, Jake, I can give more than you even know.
Maybe you should take care of your loose ends.
Again, why did you offer the "corrected Paul Fox" to other people, but not to me. If I get hold of the set of cups that I heard of that you sent out as factory seconds, and I can't find the mistakes on them with a magnifying glass, you can bet that I will let everyone know about it.
Bill Palmer, MIMC
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Bill,
sorry you don't take well to sarcasm. You know nothing though as to dirty laundry or anything else other than what you have been spoon fed. I also don't take well to things and that in particular is the bashing RNT II has recieved in these forums. I did not choose to air any laundry here you and your merry bandwagon crew have chosen to bring things up that they no NOTHING about.
I would suggest Mr Brazill and all of you just move on with your lives and business plans and leave RNT II to do theirs. The real trouble makers are surely evident and our customers and clients have had the experience first hand speaking with Mike and have found that RNT II has not exagerated or fabricated anything.
On a closing note, after going over my post and making the suggestion it really wasn't sarcasm but a darn good suggestion.
Quite frankly in my humble opinion all of you are acting like a bunch of children who had their teddy bears taken away because you didn't know how to play with them.
sorry you don't take well to sarcasm. You know nothing though as to dirty laundry or anything else other than what you have been spoon fed. I also don't take well to things and that in particular is the bashing RNT II has recieved in these forums. I did not choose to air any laundry here you and your merry bandwagon crew have chosen to bring things up that they no NOTHING about.
I would suggest Mr Brazill and all of you just move on with your lives and business plans and leave RNT II to do theirs. The real trouble makers are surely evident and our customers and clients have had the experience first hand speaking with Mike and have found that RNT II has not exagerated or fabricated anything.
On a closing note, after going over my post and making the suggestion it really wasn't sarcasm but a darn good suggestion.
Quite frankly in my humble opinion all of you are acting like a bunch of children who had their teddy bears taken away because you didn't know how to play with them.
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Listen everyone...I think this is ridiculous. Where is the integrity? I am not one for spreading rumors or listening to gossip. I have NEVER found RNT2 to be unethical with me, and to the contrary have found them to be exceedingly professional in the manufacturing of my Squatty Cups. I am not in the business of personal attacks--it is a WASTE OF TIME. But I simply cannot believe the behavior of some of my collector friends. I have spoken with both parties of the RNT2 conflict--to be honest, I did not find Mike Brazill to be particularly impressing. In fact, he sounded bitter, angry, egotistical, and even somewhat threatening. He warned that I should "consider my reputation" before continuing with RNT2. My reputation comes from my cups--and people who know me understand that I will not tolerate imperfection--I'm a surgeon, I can't afford to. RNT2 and I have an agreement--if the cups are not to MY SPECIFICATIONS...they will not be sold. RNT2 has insisted that the quality be to my standards--and I have no reason to doubt them.
It seems to me that Mike is very angry about the situation with his former company--and who wouldn't be, after years of his work. But the transfer of ownership was a business decision, one that has lead to significant increased growth of the company. That's business...and sometimes it's unfair. That doesn't change the facts...RNT2 is innovative and is making very nice things.
My business dealings with RNT2 are strictly business--and they are aware if the product is inferior...or things are not to my liking...that they will not be making the cups for me again. Period. But like I said earlier, they have been extremely honest, approachable, and easy to work with. And, most importantly, I think that they will make beautiful cups for me.
My loyalty is to the magicians--those guys who want to perform the cups and balls...and want a the best quality set available. Likewise, I want to have good quality magic available to aspiring magicians. These guys don't care much about politics...they care about performing. They are the inspiration behind the Squatty Cups--and the reason for the 5th run.
To my friends who are collectors...give RNT2 the chance to proove what they can do. If Mike Brazill, Jim Riser, and others decide to start another magic company...great. I've always felt that competition makes for better business. But do so without the slander...sly remarks...and backstabbing. It's not only childish, but unprofessional.
Jonathan Schweid, M.D.
It seems to me that Mike is very angry about the situation with his former company--and who wouldn't be, after years of his work. But the transfer of ownership was a business decision, one that has lead to significant increased growth of the company. That's business...and sometimes it's unfair. That doesn't change the facts...RNT2 is innovative and is making very nice things.
My business dealings with RNT2 are strictly business--and they are aware if the product is inferior...or things are not to my liking...that they will not be making the cups for me again. Period. But like I said earlier, they have been extremely honest, approachable, and easy to work with. And, most importantly, I think that they will make beautiful cups for me.
My loyalty is to the magicians--those guys who want to perform the cups and balls...and want a the best quality set available. Likewise, I want to have good quality magic available to aspiring magicians. These guys don't care much about politics...they care about performing. They are the inspiration behind the Squatty Cups--and the reason for the 5th run.
To my friends who are collectors...give RNT2 the chance to proove what they can do. If Mike Brazill, Jim Riser, and others decide to start another magic company...great. I've always felt that competition makes for better business. But do so without the slander...sly remarks...and backstabbing. It's not only childish, but unprofessional.
Jonathan Schweid, M.D.
Re: Cups, cups, cups
My only kick with the RNT2 outfit is the way thay have TAKEN the PF Logo and the Paul Fox name. Never even contacting the estate and producing items with the Paul Fox name that had no bearing at all on anything Paul Fox had made.
It may have been legal (?) but it certainly wasn't ethical, especially when the family was working to re-introduce the Paul Fox line.
It may have been legal (?) but it certainly wasn't ethical, especially when the family was working to re-introduce the Paul Fox line.
Stay tooned.
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Pete-- I'm new to all of this posting,etc. Have you tried any "diplomatic" solutions with RNT2-- i.e., working with them to make the Paul Fox cups? From what I know you have the permission of the Paul Fox family....RNT2 has the logo, which I heard was obtained while Mike Brazill was running the company. But it seems that instead of fighting with them...since they legally own the logo (at least from what I can tell)...why not make it a joint venture...then both sides would benefit. At least that seems reasonable to me.
Regards,
Brandon
Regards,
Brandon
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
To Jacob,
I have just located an email I sent to Marcella requesting payment. I believe that there were other reminders as well. But, I can prove this one.
Point is, you received the merchandise and an invoice initially. Your company has not paid for the merchandise you ordered. At least one reminder was sent.
At this point, I'm asking that you simply send back the books. I would prefer not to have them associated with your organization.
I would NEVER have gone public with this if you had not treated my old friend Mike Brazil in the way that you did. And, I couldn't have done it if you had simply paid for what you ordered.
Bill Palmer and Jim Riser are ethical and honest gentlemen. And most everyone in magic knows it.
Dennis Loomis
I have just located an email I sent to Marcella requesting payment. I believe that there were other reminders as well. But, I can prove this one.
Point is, you received the merchandise and an invoice initially. Your company has not paid for the merchandise you ordered. At least one reminder was sent.
At this point, I'm asking that you simply send back the books. I would prefer not to have them associated with your organization.
I would NEVER have gone public with this if you had not treated my old friend Mike Brazil in the way that you did. And, I couldn't have done it if you had simply paid for what you ordered.
Bill Palmer and Jim Riser are ethical and honest gentlemen. And most everyone in magic knows it.
Dennis Loomis
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
I have just forwarded a copy of the email I sent to RNT II requesting the unpaid balance to Richard Kaufman. It was dated July 27. I gave them the alternative of returning the books.
The original shipment of 36 books was made on June 10 by Priority Mail
To date, neither payment nor books have been received.
Dennis Loomis
The original shipment of 36 books was made on June 10 by Priority Mail
To date, neither payment nor books have been received.
Dennis Loomis
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Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27068
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Well, Jacob, you really sound like a first-class jerk. The word is that Mike Brazil had RNT II taken away from him by his partners, who suddenly claimed they owned the rights to lots of designs that Mike didn't think he sold them. So, Mike has lots of friends and you don't seem to have many.
Many people feel there are lots of unanswered ethical and legal questions regarding RNT II and your attitude isn't going to win anyone over to your side.
The fact is that you have no rights regarding the use of Paul Fox's name. That right is owned SOLELY by his estate, and the estate has granted the sole use to Pete Biro and Joe Porper.
Many people feel there are lots of unanswered ethical and legal questions regarding RNT II and your attitude isn't going to win anyone over to your side.
The fact is that you have no rights regarding the use of Paul Fox's name. That right is owned SOLELY by his estate, and the estate has granted the sole use to Pete Biro and Joe Porper.
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Re: Cups, cups, cups
Richard,
first off you know nothing of the agreement of sale. Mr. Brazill seems to have tried to pull this stunt before with the original RNT when he and I had discussions. As to the right of the Paul Fox name our add states Paul Fox Style cups, the operative word being "style". We have already discussed this and will be discontinuing any use of the name all together in any type of combination as a noun or adjective.
As to Mr. Brazill, again you have heard his side the same story told to everyone. However other investors that believed in RNT II when the Brazills had the company know exactly what is going on. Mr. Brazill's actions and story telling will eventually catch up with him. I don't need to air anything out here.
Bottom line, those who want the product will buy, those who want the politics and to be part of the bandwagon clan will stay away from us.
As to Mr. Loomis' posts, very unprofessional. Our accountant shows that the order was paid for in August. A new check was already dispateched for the purchase. RNT II pays their bills and to take a cheap shot like that in public just goes to the business character of the poster.
I've defended the company and I think I have answered questions fairly and honestly, our clients feel comfortable with us and have seen the company grow tremendously after the purchase of the near bankrupt RNT II. We will continue on with our business. I recommend everyone just do the same. I will not be replying to anymore posts as it is not serving any purpose but to give the "bandwangoneers" more to fabricate from a one-sided hearsay story woven by Mr. Brazill.
Everyone, get on with your buisiness. Those who have stood by us, RNT II thanks you. Those who oppose us, thank you as well, you have given alot of insight of one sided politics involved in this business and have given us a lot of research material to analyze.
The best to everyone and God Bless.
first off you know nothing of the agreement of sale. Mr. Brazill seems to have tried to pull this stunt before with the original RNT when he and I had discussions. As to the right of the Paul Fox name our add states Paul Fox Style cups, the operative word being "style". We have already discussed this and will be discontinuing any use of the name all together in any type of combination as a noun or adjective.
As to Mr. Brazill, again you have heard his side the same story told to everyone. However other investors that believed in RNT II when the Brazills had the company know exactly what is going on. Mr. Brazill's actions and story telling will eventually catch up with him. I don't need to air anything out here.
Bottom line, those who want the product will buy, those who want the politics and to be part of the bandwagon clan will stay away from us.
As to Mr. Loomis' posts, very unprofessional. Our accountant shows that the order was paid for in August. A new check was already dispateched for the purchase. RNT II pays their bills and to take a cheap shot like that in public just goes to the business character of the poster.
I've defended the company and I think I have answered questions fairly and honestly, our clients feel comfortable with us and have seen the company grow tremendously after the purchase of the near bankrupt RNT II. We will continue on with our business. I recommend everyone just do the same. I will not be replying to anymore posts as it is not serving any purpose but to give the "bandwangoneers" more to fabricate from a one-sided hearsay story woven by Mr. Brazill.
Everyone, get on with your buisiness. Those who have stood by us, RNT II thanks you. Those who oppose us, thank you as well, you have given alot of insight of one sided politics involved in this business and have given us a lot of research material to analyze.
The best to everyone and God Bless.
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Bill Palmer
- Posts: 719
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Houston TX
- Contact:
Re: Cups, cups, cups
If you check out the papers that were filed, this went in before Mike was associated with Marcella and Jake. According to various posts and e-mails from Jake and Marcella, Mike Brazill never actually RAN RnT2 after they took it over.Originally posted by MagicFan440:
Pete-- I'm new to all of this posting,etc. Have you tried any "diplomatic" solutions with RNT2-- i.e., working with them to make the Paul Fox cups? From what I know you have the permission of the Paul Fox family....RNT2 has the logo, which I heard was obtained while Mike Brazill was running the company. But it seems that instead of fighting with them...since they legally own the logo (at least from what I can tell)...why not make it a joint venture...then both sides would benefit. At least that seems reasonable to me.
Regards,
Brandon
Regarding my apparent lack of ability to read Jake's ads for the "factory second" Paul Fox style cups, I believe that I can explain this satisfactorily.
Jake said the cups had "divets" (sic) in the rims. I looked up the word "divet" in both Webster's Second and Webster's Third. For those of you from Viriginia, these are unabridged dictionaries, and are considered by people who actually write as the authority on American English. There is no such word as "divet" in American English. So I looked it up in the OED -- that's the Oxford English Dictionary, and sure enough, it was in there as a variant of "divot."
I've played enough golf to know what a divot is. So I interpreted the word to mean that there were nicks or dings in the rims.
I believe my confusion is understandable. And I congratulate Mr. Zimmerman on his knowledge of English variant spellings, which I had formerly attributed to a mistaken inabilty to actually be able to spell a simple five-letter word.
Even if it wasn't the word he meant.
Bill Palmer, MIMC
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Robert Allen
- Posts: 616
- Joined: March 18th, 2008, 11:53 am
Re: Cups, cups, cups
How about posting some digital photos of the "seconds" cups, from a few angles? I've seen a few cups from various manufacturers in the past with various problems and am always curious to see how my quality expectations line up with others.
In the past I've looked at what others considered acceptable or good enough and found them lacking in some way. In other cases, I've been told 'so and so's product has problems' and been unable to see any such problems myself.
Finally I wil just note that the issue of perceived de-valuation of first-line products is one reason why many manufacturers of expensive or handmade products (not just magic products) do not sell seconds. It cuts into their primary market and can peeve customers who bought the firstline product and who would have been just as happy with a second-line product.
In the past I've looked at what others considered acceptable or good enough and found them lacking in some way. In other cases, I've been told 'so and so's product has problems' and been unable to see any such problems myself.
Finally I wil just note that the issue of perceived de-valuation of first-line products is one reason why many manufacturers of expensive or handmade products (not just magic products) do not sell seconds. It cuts into their primary market and can peeve customers who bought the firstline product and who would have been just as happy with a second-line product.
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Mr. Kaufman...you sound like the jerk to me. I've actually met Mike Brazil before...tried working with him, and to be honest...he's a jerk. Granted, he has been in the business for awhile...but I never found him to be very nice.
But the truth is, most of you on this forum are acting like first rate bums. I'm proud of my RNT2 cups-- and I use them to perform all the time--for a living. I'm just ashamed to see so many people bashing a perfectly good company. So what if you don't like their business tactics...and so what if you are "sympathizers" of with Mike Brazil. I heard that he made bad business decisions--so in truth, this is HIS OWN FAULT!!!! And, I've met him...he was not nice to me at all--and this was several years ago--before RNT2.
I guess I'm just not a fan of Mr. Brazil...and I don't necessarily believe the stories he's telling.
Regards,
Brandon
But the truth is, most of you on this forum are acting like first rate bums. I'm proud of my RNT2 cups-- and I use them to perform all the time--for a living. I'm just ashamed to see so many people bashing a perfectly good company. So what if you don't like their business tactics...and so what if you are "sympathizers" of with Mike Brazil. I heard that he made bad business decisions--so in truth, this is HIS OWN FAULT!!!! And, I've met him...he was not nice to me at all--and this was several years ago--before RNT2.
I guess I'm just not a fan of Mr. Brazil...and I don't necessarily believe the stories he's telling.
Regards,
Brandon
Re: Cups, cups, cups
May I suggest dumping this thread? RNT2 and Biro/Porper with the Fox Estate are working to a solution of the Paul Fox confusion and IMHO will sort things out to the satisfaction of all parties.
If not... :whack:
If not... :whack:
Stay tooned.
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Sounds like a good idea Pete. (Although I LOVE juicey stuff like this.) And a word to MagicFan. Richard isn't a jerk. But if he were, this is his house and he has every right. Also has the right to kick your butt off of here.
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Jacob,
I did not receive payment in August, or at any other time. If your accountant has proof, then produce it. I sent a copy of my email requesting payment to Richard Kaufman.
If you paid me and I totally forgot, you would deserve a big apology, and you'll get it. But, if you did send out a payment and it somehow went astray, why didn't you let me know that when I requested Payment again later. My records do not indicate a payment, and that matches my memory. But, hey, I'm human. If I'm wrong, you should have a cancelled check or some electronic proof. Please send it to Richard Kaufman.
You said that a "new" check has been dispatched. If you claim to have paid it, (meaning a first check cleared) why would you pay me again? At this point, I do not want your money. If a check arrives now, I'll send it back and you can send the books back... Okay?
I will admit that I do not know you well. But I do know Mike Brazill and have for many years. I believe his version because I trust him AND because Bill Palmer backs him up.
I AM confused about the rights to use the Paul Fox name. Pete Biro is another guy I believe, and let me ask you publicly, Pete: Didn't Paul Fox sell the rights to his products to Danny Dew? I know that Danny Dew and Jeff Busby made some kind of a deal, and that many people say that Busby never completed paying Danny. But, why would the Paul Fox Family have the rights today? I'm not saying they don't, mind you, I'm asking.
Denny Loomis
I did not receive payment in August, or at any other time. If your accountant has proof, then produce it. I sent a copy of my email requesting payment to Richard Kaufman.
If you paid me and I totally forgot, you would deserve a big apology, and you'll get it. But, if you did send out a payment and it somehow went astray, why didn't you let me know that when I requested Payment again later. My records do not indicate a payment, and that matches my memory. But, hey, I'm human. If I'm wrong, you should have a cancelled check or some electronic proof. Please send it to Richard Kaufman.
You said that a "new" check has been dispatched. If you claim to have paid it, (meaning a first check cleared) why would you pay me again? At this point, I do not want your money. If a check arrives now, I'll send it back and you can send the books back... Okay?
I will admit that I do not know you well. But I do know Mike Brazill and have for many years. I believe his version because I trust him AND because Bill Palmer backs him up.
I AM confused about the rights to use the Paul Fox name. Pete Biro is another guy I believe, and let me ask you publicly, Pete: Didn't Paul Fox sell the rights to his products to Danny Dew? I know that Danny Dew and Jeff Busby made some kind of a deal, and that many people say that Busby never completed paying Danny. But, why would the Paul Fox Family have the rights today? I'm not saying they don't, mind you, I'm asking.
Denny Loomis
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Bill Wells
- Posts: 299
- Joined: January 21st, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Lexington, VA
Re: Cups, cups, cups
...from Bill Palmer's message...
Bill ;)
Watch it Mr. William....there are some from the Old Dominion who can read!! ...and don't you forget that Sam Houston was a Virginian !!!"For those of you from Viriginia, these are unabridged dictionaries, and are considered by people who actually write as the authority on American English."
Bill ;)
Bill Wells
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Bill Palmer
- Posts: 719
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Houston TX
- Contact:
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Bill:
You are right, of course. I should know about that. I married one of his great-great-great-grand nieces!
And she can read very well.
You are right, of course. I should know about that. I married one of his great-great-great-grand nieces!
And she can read very well.
Bill Palmer, MIMC
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
In a private email to me, Jake has admitted that they have no cancelled check. I am skeptical that one was sent, but things do go astray in the mail. He also states that all of the books save 3 or 4 have been sold. I have no reason to disbelieve that.
Therefore, I will accept and cash the new check if/when it arrives. And, I'll post it on this thread.
Denny Loomis
Therefore, I will accept and cash the new check if/when it arrives. And, I'll post it on this thread.
Denny Loomis
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Pepka...I'm jut not a fan of accusations. Mr. Kaufman has no right to call anyone else a jerk--it is unprofessional, and makes him sound foolish--I don't care whose house it is. But I'm sorry if it offended anyone
My only point is that I've had the pleasure of meeting Mike Brazill, and he's not nearly as friendly as all of you make out. In fact, he was downright nasty and egotistical. Frankly it was at that time I lost tremendous respect for him. It was just happenstance that he and I came into contact (as it was me finding this particular forum).
I'm also not justifying anything for RNT2. I simply want professionalism...not allegations. Nobody has brought forth any documentation or proof on any wrongdoing. People in this forum just like to gossip--and it at the expense of others.
Brandon
My only point is that I've had the pleasure of meeting Mike Brazill, and he's not nearly as friendly as all of you make out. In fact, he was downright nasty and egotistical. Frankly it was at that time I lost tremendous respect for him. It was just happenstance that he and I came into contact (as it was me finding this particular forum).
I'm also not justifying anything for RNT2. I simply want professionalism...not allegations. Nobody has brought forth any documentation or proof on any wrongdoing. People in this forum just like to gossip--and it at the expense of others.
Brandon
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Dennis: According to Paul Fox's daughter, no one, not even Danny Dew was granted rights to Paul Fox name and/or Logo. Danny used it as he had "permission" to make the stuff and market it FOR Paul.
Busby came along, befriended Danny, and when in poor health and needing funds, Danny was made an offer to buy the jigs and remaining stock by Busby. Busby took all the gear and made a down payment. (I don't know the deal and amount, but...)... According to Danny Dew's lawyer, Busby never paid what was agreed upon. The lawyer offered to go after Busby, pro bono, but Danny didn't want to go through the trouble as his health was failing and he didn't want the stress. After he died, his widow, Melba, just about has a heart attack anytime anyone "mentions the name Busby."
Busby filed and obtained a copyright on the PF logo without the knowledge of the Estate.
Paul's daughter and grandchildren are eager to bring the Paul Fox name, and reputation, back up to the top... and have entered into a licencing agreement with myself and Joe Porper to manufacture and market various Paul Fox items. The criteria is their approval of the qaulity, which we will have no trouble meeting.
Now, when someone else has come along and started to use the Paul Fox name and logo... this HARMS our situation, causing confusion with the general customer base. They won't know who's right or wrong, really, and if a poor product is made with the Fox name we all lose.
The Paul Fox estate is not happy about this at all.
We have had messages from the RNT-2 principals that they are going to drop the use of the Paul Fox name and have asked their webmaster to take it out of any items on their site.
Let's hope this can happen to the satisfaction of the Fox family.
Busby came along, befriended Danny, and when in poor health and needing funds, Danny was made an offer to buy the jigs and remaining stock by Busby. Busby took all the gear and made a down payment. (I don't know the deal and amount, but...)... According to Danny Dew's lawyer, Busby never paid what was agreed upon. The lawyer offered to go after Busby, pro bono, but Danny didn't want to go through the trouble as his health was failing and he didn't want the stress. After he died, his widow, Melba, just about has a heart attack anytime anyone "mentions the name Busby."
Busby filed and obtained a copyright on the PF logo without the knowledge of the Estate.
Paul's daughter and grandchildren are eager to bring the Paul Fox name, and reputation, back up to the top... and have entered into a licencing agreement with myself and Joe Porper to manufacture and market various Paul Fox items. The criteria is their approval of the qaulity, which we will have no trouble meeting.
Now, when someone else has come along and started to use the Paul Fox name and logo... this HARMS our situation, causing confusion with the general customer base. They won't know who's right or wrong, really, and if a poor product is made with the Fox name we all lose.
The Paul Fox estate is not happy about this at all.
We have had messages from the RNT-2 principals that they are going to drop the use of the Paul Fox name and have asked their webmaster to take it out of any items on their site.
Let's hope this can happen to the satisfaction of the Fox family.
Stay tooned.
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Pete--does this mean that your major "issues" with RNT2 are now resolved?
Re: Cups, cups, cups
I believe so... the ball is in their court and we await to see how it plays out.
Stay tooned.
Re: Cups, cups, cups
BTW -- what they do has no bearing on what we do. We have plans and will stick to them. My only real problem is with the confusion factor.
Stay tooned.
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Pete,
Thanks for clarifying the situation. I wish you and Joe nothing but the best in your endeavor. My first good set of cups were Paul Fox from Danny, and I am glad to know that the tradition will be carried on. We are fortunate that so many good sets of cups are being made today, with craftsmen like Jim Riser, Auke van Dokkum, and Joe Porper to mention some, creating quality products for performers and collectors.
Denny Loomis
Thanks for clarifying the situation. I wish you and Joe nothing but the best in your endeavor. My first good set of cups were Paul Fox from Danny, and I am glad to know that the tradition will be carried on. We are fortunate that so many good sets of cups are being made today, with craftsmen like Jim Riser, Auke van Dokkum, and Joe Porper to mention some, creating quality products for performers and collectors.
Denny Loomis
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
If relationships are to be repaired, it would be good if RnT2 would consider starting by modifying their 'hit' counter at the bottom of their homepage.
That counter might be hidden away at the bottom of the page in a small font, but customers (like me) will read it. That sort of personal remark really isn't justified on a business web page and looks very unprofessional. I don't imagine you'd see such a sign in a shop front or on a business card.
It would be a good place to start burying that hatchet.
Z
That counter might be hidden away at the bottom of the page in a small font, but customers (like me) will read it. That sort of personal remark really isn't justified on a business web page and looks very unprofessional. I don't imagine you'd see such a sign in a shop front or on a business card.
It would be a good place to start burying that hatchet.
Z
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George Olson
- Posts: 979
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Tigard, OR
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Haven't we about beaten this topic to an early grave?
Perhaps time to move on.
GO
Perhaps time to move on.
GO
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
I didn't think this would cause so much excitement.Originally posted by Jacob:
As to the right of the Paul Fox name our add states Paul Fox Style cups, the operative word being "style". We have already discussed this and will be discontinuing any use of the name all together in any type of combination as a noun or adjective.
The add on RNT2.com does not use the word style anywhere in it.
Here is the description from the web sight.
The Next Generation PF CUPS BY RNT2
2nd Run in Stainless Near Completion
Available in stainless steel, copper, brass and precious metals. The most sought after cups of the 20th century are the cups that were designed by Paul Fox. The early PF cups were originally produced by Danny Dew and were made by three different machinists, the last of which were the crew at the original Rings and Things Magic in St. Louis, Missouri. This information has been known only to a few people on the "inside" of the cups and balls industry until just recently. So, it is only appropriate that the latest version of this style of cup be produced by the same people. We are now the new Registrar of the PF Logo.
The cups in the photo are the 3rd Generation PF Style Cups made by RnT II Magic Co. The first is in stainless steel, a material never before used for the PF Cups. Also availabe will be brass, copper and precious metals.
They are supplied with a pocket-sized instruction booklet, crocheted balls and an attractive double plush tassled drawstring bag that also serves as a close-up pad.
ONLY 20 OF 25 SETS REMAIN! When THEY ARE GONE NO MORE STAINLESS WILL BE MADE!
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Terry_Holley
- Posts: 133
- Joined: April 16th, 2008, 9:20 pm
- Location: Medina, OH
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Mr. Farnsworthy:
If you read the ad again you will see that the word "style" is included:
"The cups in the photo are the 3rd Generation PF Style Cups made by RnT II Magic Co. The first is in stainless steel, a material never before used for the PF Cups. Also availabe will be brass, copper and precious metals." (bold mine)
Terry
If you read the ad again you will see that the word "style" is included:
"The cups in the photo are the 3rd Generation PF Style Cups made by RnT II Magic Co. The first is in stainless steel, a material never before used for the PF Cups. Also availabe will be brass, copper and precious metals." (bold mine)
Terry
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Mr. Farnsworthy,
it seems you only have two posts on Genii, both pertaining to RNT II. We officially knight you RNT II watchman for the rest of your natural life.
Yawwwn.... :sleep:
it seems you only have two posts on Genii, both pertaining to RNT II. We officially knight you RNT II watchman for the rest of your natural life.
Yawwwn.... :sleep:
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Thought you're not replying anymore?Originally posted by Jacob:
Richard,
first off you know nothing of the agreement of sale. Mr. Brazill seems to have tried to pull this stunt before with the original RNT when he and I had discussions. As to the right of the Paul Fox name our add states Paul Fox Style cups, the operative word being "style". We have already discussed this and will be discontinuing any use of the name all together in any type of combination as a noun or adjective.
As to Mr. Brazill, again you have heard his side the same story told to everyone. However other investors that believed in RNT II when the Brazills had the company know exactly what is going on. Mr. Brazill's actions and story telling will eventually catch up with him. I don't need to air anything out here.
Bottom line, those who want the product will buy, those who want the politics and to be part of the bandwagon clan will stay away from us.
As to Mr. Loomis' posts, very unprofessional. Our accountant shows that the order was paid for in August. A new check was already dispateched for the purchase. RNT II pays their bills and to take a cheap shot like that in public just goes to the business character of the poster.
I've defended the company and I think I have answered questions fairly and honestly, our clients feel comfortable with us and have seen the company grow tremendously after the purchase of the near bankrupt RNT II. We will continue on with our business. I recommend everyone just do the same. I will not be replying to anymore posts as it is not serving any purpose but to give the "bandwangoneers" more to fabricate from a one-sided hearsay story woven by Mr. Brazill.
Everyone, get on with your buisiness. Those who have stood by us, RNT II thanks you. Those who oppose us, thank you as well, you have given alot of insight of one sided politics involved in this business and have given us a lot of research material to analyze.
The best to everyone and God Bless.
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Matthew Field
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Slydini
- Location: Hastings, England, UK
Re: Cups, cups, cups
For pity's sake, shut this one down.
Matt Field
Matt Field
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Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27068
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Matt, you really think we should close this thread? I'm enjoying watching Jacob make my point so well. :)
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Hello,
my name is Marcella Zimmerman, for those of you who do not know me I am the President/CEO of RNT II Magic Inc., the company which I purchased from the Brazills and legally recognized as such purchase by the Brazills and the state of Va.
While Jake has acted as a consultant and voice for the company I feel that both Jake and RNT II Magic has taken enough brutality from what appears to be a group of gossiping unprofessionals.
Mr. Brazill sold RNT II as the company was at the brink of bankrupcty. With quite a bit of work the company was revived, debts paid and the company has flourished. What appears to be happening is now that Mr. Brazill's broken toy when he had it has now been repaired he is resentful. When the company was sold there was an unpaid debt of over 12,336.00 due our engraving company for services supplied to RNT II which were never paid and the debt had to be absorbed by the company.
Mr Brazill agreed to turn over all assets per the contract of sale and failed to do so, in the intrim, Mr Brazill sold off property belonging to the RNT II Corporation after sale, sales which included forged certificates of authenticty. I can say this with out libel or slander as our attorney has in their posession documented proof of these transactions. I make this post as a message to people who are approached with such products as these are listed with the authorities and our attorney as stolen corporate property. The forged COA's that Mr Brazill is providing people are not from RNT II and is also bein investigated by the authorities. Mr Brazill is also selling cups which belong to RNT II Magic Inc where there are dimples in the bottoms of the cups. These cups where dimpled to mark themm as unsellable.
I will not stand by and have my name or the companys name slandered or bashed by these groups any longer. Any legal questions or complaints can be directed to our attorney and since all of you seem to know so much about the actions and internal operations of RNT II Magic, Inc. you must already know who our attorney is.
On a personal note and in my opinion only, I would suggest how close you stand next to Mr. Brazill he doesn't seem to care who he cheats or sells property that is not his to. Knowingly purchasing products of RNT II Magic Inc. from Mr. Brazill that have been produced after 1/5/05 is now to be considered recieving stolen property and will be treated as such by myself and this company.
I have relieved Jake of his position of consultant and will leave him to his engineering work and his own business alike. Any questions or concerns may be directed to me directly or through our attorney.
Good Day.
Marcella Zimmerman
President/CEO
RNT II Magic, Inc.
my name is Marcella Zimmerman, for those of you who do not know me I am the President/CEO of RNT II Magic Inc., the company which I purchased from the Brazills and legally recognized as such purchase by the Brazills and the state of Va.
While Jake has acted as a consultant and voice for the company I feel that both Jake and RNT II Magic has taken enough brutality from what appears to be a group of gossiping unprofessionals.
Mr. Brazill sold RNT II as the company was at the brink of bankrupcty. With quite a bit of work the company was revived, debts paid and the company has flourished. What appears to be happening is now that Mr. Brazill's broken toy when he had it has now been repaired he is resentful. When the company was sold there was an unpaid debt of over 12,336.00 due our engraving company for services supplied to RNT II which were never paid and the debt had to be absorbed by the company.
Mr Brazill agreed to turn over all assets per the contract of sale and failed to do so, in the intrim, Mr Brazill sold off property belonging to the RNT II Corporation after sale, sales which included forged certificates of authenticty. I can say this with out libel or slander as our attorney has in their posession documented proof of these transactions. I make this post as a message to people who are approached with such products as these are listed with the authorities and our attorney as stolen corporate property. The forged COA's that Mr Brazill is providing people are not from RNT II and is also bein investigated by the authorities. Mr Brazill is also selling cups which belong to RNT II Magic Inc where there are dimples in the bottoms of the cups. These cups where dimpled to mark themm as unsellable.
I will not stand by and have my name or the companys name slandered or bashed by these groups any longer. Any legal questions or complaints can be directed to our attorney and since all of you seem to know so much about the actions and internal operations of RNT II Magic, Inc. you must already know who our attorney is.
On a personal note and in my opinion only, I would suggest how close you stand next to Mr. Brazill he doesn't seem to care who he cheats or sells property that is not his to. Knowingly purchasing products of RNT II Magic Inc. from Mr. Brazill that have been produced after 1/5/05 is now to be considered recieving stolen property and will be treated as such by myself and this company.
I have relieved Jake of his position of consultant and will leave him to his engineering work and his own business alike. Any questions or concerns may be directed to me directly or through our attorney.
Good Day.
Marcella Zimmerman
President/CEO
RNT II Magic, Inc.
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Bob Walder
- Posts: 121
- Joined: January 28th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
Re: Cups, cups, cups
Marcie - you go girl!
From a collector's/consumer's point of view, I can only say that I have had nothing but pleasant dealings with RNT II. On the couple of occasions where they have slipped up on quality issues with me, both Jacob and Marcie have bent over backwards to put things right.
On the incorrectly made PF cups issue - sounds like everyone has received or will receive a new set of cups, correctly manufactured, without prompting (in some cases) and in ADDITION to the original cups - sounds like a sweet deal to me!
On the seconds issue - always a dicey business selling seconds - always the risk of people who purchased original items being peeved if they consider the flaws are small enough to be overlooked. But we've all seen this before - buying seconds is a lottery. If you are happy with the quality of the originals, leave it at that.
Maybe a company which is trying to make a name by producing top quality merchandise should reconsider selling seconds at all, but that is a corporate decision for Marcie to make (I think Jim Riser's solution is a good one - keep all the seconds and offer them gratis at regular intervals to poor/young/deserving magicians who cannot afford full prices for quality gear - nice solution!)
On the rest of the points raised, sounds like a lot of second or third hand gossip is being traded...
From a collector's/consumer's point of view, I can only say that I have had nothing but pleasant dealings with RNT II. On the couple of occasions where they have slipped up on quality issues with me, both Jacob and Marcie have bent over backwards to put things right.
On the incorrectly made PF cups issue - sounds like everyone has received or will receive a new set of cups, correctly manufactured, without prompting (in some cases) and in ADDITION to the original cups - sounds like a sweet deal to me!
On the seconds issue - always a dicey business selling seconds - always the risk of people who purchased original items being peeved if they consider the flaws are small enough to be overlooked. But we've all seen this before - buying seconds is a lottery. If you are happy with the quality of the originals, leave it at that.
Maybe a company which is trying to make a name by producing top quality merchandise should reconsider selling seconds at all, but that is a corporate decision for Marcie to make (I think Jim Riser's solution is a good one - keep all the seconds and offer them gratis at regular intervals to poor/young/deserving magicians who cannot afford full prices for quality gear - nice solution!)
On the rest of the points raised, sounds like a lot of second or third hand gossip is being traded...
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Guest
Re: Cups, cups, cups
As I have posted all along, my business dealings with RNT2 have been VERY professionally managed. The business has been conducted with honesty and integrity. There have been no "handshake deals", and at the insistance of the Jake and Marcella, my attorney (of course at my expense) had to draft a written agreement giving permission for RNT2 to use my trademark. This not only protects my interests, but also those of RNT2. This is the PROPER way to do business.
For those who have criticized RNT2 for "shady" business deals, I suggest you carefully consider the source. RNT2 has been up front, honest, and very professional with me--and have been pleased thus far. You will notice several other manufacturers, like Jim Sisti and Ickle Pickle products feel similarly.
I am very proud of my cups, and the folks at RNT2 know that my trust in them to manufacture the cups correctly, with the utmost precision and care is invaluable.
If you liked the JESmagic Squatty Cups before...don't blink...the best is yet to come! And for those with any concerns--rest assured that I am working DIRECTLY with RNT2 (as I did with my previous spinning company) to produce by far the best Squatty Cups to date.
Regards,
Jonathan Schweid, M.D.
For those who have criticized RNT2 for "shady" business deals, I suggest you carefully consider the source. RNT2 has been up front, honest, and very professional with me--and have been pleased thus far. You will notice several other manufacturers, like Jim Sisti and Ickle Pickle products feel similarly.
I am very proud of my cups, and the folks at RNT2 know that my trust in them to manufacture the cups correctly, with the utmost precision and care is invaluable.
If you liked the JESmagic Squatty Cups before...don't blink...the best is yet to come! And for those with any concerns--rest assured that I am working DIRECTLY with RNT2 (as I did with my previous spinning company) to produce by far the best Squatty Cups to date.
Regards,
Jonathan Schweid, M.D.