Cups, cups, cups

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
Bob Walder
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bob Walder » September 30th, 2005, 6:32 am

Originally posted by Dave Le Fevre:
Some people would disagree. Try marketing a wine as "manufactured in the same way as Champagne". Or even advertising a wine as being "people preferred it to Champagne in a taste test". Either instance has the winemakers of Champagne slapping lawsuits on people.
Not true - the only restriction is that a champagne stlye wine made outside the champagne region cannot be called CHAMPAGNE. Check around, you will see hundreds of "methode champagnoise" wines, which means "made in the style of champagne".

Many of the local growers around me have these wines - many of them are as good as champagne, but they can only ever be labelled as methode champagnoise.

WolfLady
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby WolfLady » September 30th, 2005, 7:01 am

Brandon

The Paul Fox family want the cups made by Pete & Joe because they make them like they should be made. The owner of RNT II slipped in and took the logo and started making the cups. That was sorry! RNT II didn't do a good job on them or they wouldn't be having to send replacements to everyone. They knew the cups were inferior, but they sold them anyway, thinking they could get by with it. They would have too in a lot of cases if it hadn't come up on this forum. Selling cups for $400.00 to some buyers and for $150.00 to others??? That's not good business. They should know that most of the big cup collectors communicate on a regular basis. Sounds like a company to beware of to me. I haven't purchased anything from them and after reading the posts on this forum, I never will. The Paul Fox logo was obtained by the Zimmermans before they purchased RNT II from Mike Brazill. You said "I've actually met Mike Brazil before...tried working with him, and to be honest...he's a jerk. Granted, he has been in the business for awhile...but I never found him to be very nice." You also said "I've met him...he was not nice to me at all--and this was several years ago--before RNT2." How long before RNT II? I know Mike and he didn't do any work in magic from 1980 until he started RNT II. From reading your posts here, if Mike wasn't nice to you, it was probably justified.

Mark

Bob Walder
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bob Walder » September 30th, 2005, 7:38 am

Seeing an awful lot of first-time posts here weighing in with insults..... wonder who they are REALLY?

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » September 30th, 2005, 8:58 am

Originally posted by Bob Walder:
Not true - the only restriction is that a champagne stlye wine made outside the champagne region cannot be called CHAMPAGNE. Check around, you will see hundreds of "methode champagnoise" wines, which means "made in the style of champagne".
I don't wish to prolong a vinous discussion on a conjuring forum. Any more than I'd wish to prolong a conjuring discussion on a vinous forum, come to think of it.

Agreed, "mthode champenoise" does mean made using the champagne method (not actually in the style of champagne, if you'll excuse my pedantry). But that is an accepted term. "Made in the style of Champagne" would not be accepted, I think. The word "champenoise" is acceptable. The word "Champagne" on the label of any wine that was not made in Champagne would be as unacceptable as ..... oh, I dunno, the name "Paul Fox" on a Macdonalds polystyrene beaker.

Dave

PS - In case anybody's wondering, mthode champenoise implies bottle fermation as opposed to tank fermentation - it refers to the method of manufacture. (As opposed to the style of Champagne, which would refer to what the finished product was like, which is not necessarily correlated to the method of manufacture.)

Bob Walder
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bob Walder » September 30th, 2005, 9:12 am

Hmmmmm - yes I agree - you ARE being pedantic ;o)

You used an analogy that didn't hold up - the point is that the champenoise (thanks for the correct spelling, BTW ;o) label indicates that it is not champers, but made in the same way - in the STYLE of - (and therefore to many will taste the same.... can't say I agree, myself)

But no one will mistake it for the real thing.

Just as no one will mistake RNT2's cups "made in the style of Paul Fox" for Paul Fox cups.

Even with a legit license from the heirs - could you REALLY release a new set of cups as "Paul Fox cups"? No way. You would need some form of distinction in your ads/descriptions so that someone bidding on eBay, for example, didn't think your new copies were originals.

Jim Riser
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Jim Riser » September 30th, 2005, 9:30 am

Originally posted by MagicFan440:
<snip>
Secondly, Mr. Holly, I got a lot of my info about the Fox Cups from Jim Riser's site--whom all of you have the utmost regard. If you read his commentary on Pre-Danny Dew Paul Fox cups...he questions the validity of such claims. I have spoken with a couple of other friends of mine--one of whome knew Danny Dew who confirmed this. My understanding...Paul Fox conceptualized and designed the cups, but it was Danny Dew who actually made them (or should I say, had them made). If pre-Danny Dew cups do exist...does anyone have a picture and a way to prove it? Perhaps Paul Fox had some prototypes...who knows--and yes obviously those would be Paul Fox cups <snip>
Brandon
Brandon;
You appear to be a fount of misinformation. The reference to questioning the history was referring to a specific set of cups that were being sold on ebay. The seller had been led to believe that they were pre-Danny. This was an honest mistake on his part. From the shape of the cups, I merely questioned this. It is well documented that there were Paul Fox Cups before Danny sold them for his friend Paul Fox. Some of these pre-Danny cups may be seen in the collections shown on my web site. They were spun in Colorado. My web site documents some of the history behind the Paul Fox Cups - but not ALL of it. There is a ton of info still out there. No one has had the time to turn it all into print yet.

For my Paul Fox Cup info, I had a friend who went directly to Melba to get the FACTS not some sort of "spin" put out by an apparently questionable company trying to cover their posterior.

In court, RNT2 would not have a chance of holding on to the PF logo. Any judge or jury would see their grabbing the "PF" for what it was. (opinion; but most likely true)

Jim

Bill Palmer
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bill Palmer » September 30th, 2005, 9:52 am

I'll be able to settle a lot of this very shortly. I now have one of the sets of "seconds" which I will photograph and post on one of my web sites, along with photographs of my "firsts."

So far, under close examination, I have found that the "seconds" may have a slightly larger separation between the mouth bead and the body of the cup on one side of each cup. It is, IMO, not enough of a difference that it would qualify these cups as seconds. I am speaking of a difference of less than the thickness of a sheet of paper.

The part that really chaps me is that the mouth beads on my "firsts" are not as well rolled. There is a significant difference in the mouth bead on either side of each cup -- much greater than on the "seconds."

I would have been better off ordering the "seconds" and not purchasing the "firsts" in the first place.

I will photograph these very carefully and post the web site where they can be viewed.
Bill Palmer, MIMC

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Scott Fridinger » September 30th, 2005, 12:54 pm

I can right an "unauthorized" biography on anyone and in the title say it is unauthorized. There is no protection of a name of a person, and Paul Fox isn't in any patent, etc.

It is about "ethics" not legalities here.

If I come out with an alteration of Twisting the Aces and call it The Twist, Vernon Style there would be no protection of the name Vernon. If the effect was a reprint of the original material there would be copyright infringement, but if the trick is different, I can call it whatever I want. Now, that doesn't mean I should. All of Disney's characters are protected by law because Disney took the steps to ensure this. Xerox is a protected name, but know one sued Ammar over the Xeroxed Deck. Where his "photocopies" made on a Xerox machine?

All of these similar arguments are irrelevant in the eyes of the Law. If steps are not taken by the Fox Family to LEGALLY protect the name, it is just a matter of ethics within the magic community.

The same argument was made when Buzzbee tried to block all Ebay activity. He didn't have any legal grounds so he shouldn't have done it.

Elvis's name isn't legally protected. If you argue that the Fox Family is the only one who has a right to the Paul Fox name, with no Legal backing, the same can be said for the Presley name. Imagine if Elvis's heirs tried to sue everyone who billed themselves as "Elvis Impersonators". They perform in the style of Elvis, but they are not Elvis. There is nothing wrong with it.

My suggestion is that the Fox Family and those who support them take legal steps to protect the name, until then there is little they can do LEGALLY. You can of course promote the boycotting of the companies who you don't thinks should be using the name. Patents and Copyrights cost money, how much is the name worth?

Robert Allen
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Robert Allen » September 30th, 2005, 1:28 pm

Not to be pedantic, but I believe the PF in a circle logo is a trademark and so could have more protection than just an individuals proper name?

However I'll be that if a guy name Frank Xerox tried to sell copy machines he'd be hearing from Xerox Corps. lawyers.

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Scott Fridinger » September 30th, 2005, 1:40 pm

Originally posted by Robert Allen:
Not to be pedantic, but I believe the PF in a circle logo is a trademark and so could have more protection than just an individuals proper name?

However I'll be that if a guy name Frank Xerox tried to sell copy machines he'd be hearing from Xerox Corps. lawyers.
It is only a trademark if they have the documentation showing they legally registered it as a trademark. Just making a Logo does not make it a trademark.

Check out this site for Copyright, Patent and Trademark proceedures.

http://www.patelalumit.com/index.html?trademarkalogo

Also a search of PF in trademarks shows a number of logos using PF ranging from Mushroom Growers to Cosmetics. Check it out:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=1277cr.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA 2=PF&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » September 30th, 2005, 2:22 pm

There's really no need to even use the phrase "Paul Fox style". Sherwood, JESmagic, Joe Porper and numerous others all sell cups that are clearly in that style (inspired by, of similar provenance, whatever) and nobody criticises them.

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Scott Fridinger » September 30th, 2005, 2:27 pm

Also, if I write a book and self puplish it I can right (oops, I mean write) that all the material is copyright, but unless I pay the government for the copyright it is just words. I am sure when Steven King publishes a new book part of the process is paying for a copywrite. However, how many lecture notes or even the newest packet trick has been released without actually paying for the copyright?

Mr. Kaufman when you publish a book do you pay for the copyright?

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Scott Fridinger » September 30th, 2005, 2:57 pm

Ok to correct myself, after a little more research it seems that once you create your work in some "material form" it is copyrighted for all intents and purposes, however, to get full protection and the benefit to sue for damages, your work should be registered with the government. The price seems to be about $30.00.

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » September 30th, 2005, 4:29 pm

The posts by Bill Palmer, Jim Riser and the like as in the people with only one post are utterly ridiculous. Bill and Jim you hold yourselves as more important than you really are. In my opinion you are a pair of vindictive old men who are seeing the end of their time. The fact of the cup release and we took steps to do another run and supply a second set of cups to the consumers shows alot more credit for intregity than both of your invalid cheap shots.

Mike Brazill no longer owns RNT II Magic, bottom line, you both hold yourselves as experts in everything, but in fact this is something you know nothing about, you want everyone one to think you both do, when in actuallity you know nothing.

As for remarks in precision Paul Fox cups, we have 4 sets of orignal Danny Dews, not one of the 4 sets are perfectly identical, different distances between the mouth beads, different widths between mouth beads and dresslines. One set is 1/16" shorter than another set. Where is this precision you are talking about? Are the Porper/Biro cups going to be CNC? Well heck Bill and Jim CNC is CAD, can't get any more precision that that, but even then, if life was full of PERFECT precision, we wouldn't have lost space shuttles now would we?

The seconds sold on ebay had either divots or mouthbead gaps, we're sending new sets, not asking for exchanges so the consumer gets 2 sets. What RNT II considers seconds is hardly any of your business. I can't see where anyone that is recieving an additional set has any room to complain or be upset.

The only problem that RNT II seems to be facing is that we lost Mad Jake and to have to contend with Bill Palmer and Jim Riser. I see a handful of people that stick with you both, but the phone here has clearly been ringing more with both orders and messages of support.

Customers that have ever had issues with any products were quickly resolved. I seem to see the same thing going on with Pete and Joe right now. We are taking care of our customers the same way they are. You have some nerve soapboxing and trying to mislead people with your standing in the community and inaccurate information.

These one time posters on forum that conviently just happne to pop up are nothing more than a ploy driven by the pokers and jabbers on here, which by the way are a very small number. The more you post the more foolish you look and dimminish the respect that was held for you and you have done so as this has been expressed to me in both phone calls and emails.

The plan for Paul Fox Style cups were long in planning before Mr. Biro and Mr. Porper planned to purchase the Fox estate. We are legally entitled to refer to the cups as Paul Fox Style cups and have been advised by our corporate attorney, but recently within discussions with Pete we have removed that, not because of any legal issues, but because we are working on a sollution, but you say we are unethical. Our actions show more compassion for the situation at hand, where as your posts hold nothing but contempt each and everytime you post.

Bob Walder and all the others that have showed and continued support, thank you, as President of RNT II Magic, I will see to it we continue to grow and better ourselves for the consumer. Joe and Pete, I am not letting the the rants and posts by Jim Riser and Bill Palmer affect our decision or details in a sollution between us.

This company will not be run or controlled by 2 people such as Bill Palmer or Jim Riser who thinks they both can ultimately set and decide the fate of this company, they just really aren't that important to the companys survival.

Oh and Bill, to that cheap shot you took at Jake for a mis-spelling of divot and other remark, you pretty much made yourself a laughing stock with that one, but hey I'm sure you'll do it again.

If I made any spelling errors it means I'm human, have a pressed schedule and realize that my posts might not meet your precision spelling.

Marcella Zimmerman
President/CEO
RNT II Magic, Inc.

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » September 30th, 2005, 8:58 pm

I've been reading the posts in the thread with some concern about the tone of what is being said at times. I've no dog in this fight, I don't own cups and until I recover from the financial loss I've experienced due to my wifes illness I don't think I'll be getting any. I do have a respect for the elder statesmen of our art and don't appreciate the way they are being refered too. I also think some are going too heavy after RNT because they are trying to run a business and while it may cause some to think they are not doing it the same way they would if they had the business it doesn't make them evil or anything else. I think a lot of people would appreciate a chance to purchase seconds to use in practice or to learn a routine, what ever, because they don't want to handle their first run cups in practice or can't afford a $650 set.

I think y'all need to calm down and try being nicer to each other because no one is making any new friends here.
Steve V

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Tabman
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Tabman » September 30th, 2005, 9:20 pm

by Steve V': I don't own cups and until I recover from the financial loss I've experienced due to my wifes illness I don't think I'll be getting any.
Hay Steve, PM me your shipping address. Ive got a nice old set of, I think they are, P & L Aluminum cups that I will send you. They could use an owner that would show some interest in them. They are sitting dusty on a shelf in my workshop right now. I might even be able to come up with a set of balls too.

All the best,

-=tabman

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » September 30th, 2005, 10:28 pm

Thank you, that is a very kind offer and I think I'll take you up on it. Very appreciated. Be kinda neat working out cup moves with real cups.
Steve V

Bill Palmer
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bill Palmer » September 30th, 2005, 10:49 pm

Marcella/Jacob:

Do you want me to publish the e-mails I have gotten from you thanking me for the support I have given your company? I can do that, if you wish.

Once I publish the photos of the "factory seconds" with the "divets in the rim" -- basically non-existent defects, and the photos of my "correctly made cups" which are considerably less correct, then you and the rest of the people on the forum can decide what is being produced.

I have seven sets of PF/DD cups in my collection. Each one will take a lacrosse ball. Each set will nest interchangeably. Yours are the ones that don't. Even the Busby cups will -- they, too, are spun -- these are his pre-CNC cups.

Am I angry. Dern right I am. I paid a premium to get correctly made cups, and I see that your factory seconds are not only cheaper, but better.

This is not an example of good business practices.

I don't consider myself any more important than any other person on this forum. But your displays have certainly let us know what kind of person you are.
Bill Palmer, MIMC

Jim Riser
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Jim Riser » September 30th, 2005, 11:49 pm

Marcella;
I'm just a guy who runs a one man shop and tries to make nice apparatus for magicians - nothing more. I have never claimed anything else. I'm not someone special; but Paul Fox was. He was a giant in magic history.

I have exercised my rights as a U.S. citizen and expressed my opinions. If you do not like them, you have a right to your own opinions. I have never told you how to run your business - for such advice, you would need to pay me. In a very early post in this thread I stated (to Jacob) that "He may run his business however he wants to; but I certainly do not need to support it.". This was how I felt then and is how I feel now.

Yes, I am old - old enough to realize that the opinion of someone like you means nothing. Being old has its advantages :)

I have never expressed any opinions in this thread regarding "precision" nor the quality of RNT2 products. Yet, you accuse me of still another thing I did not do.

Being in Arizona (Danny Dew terrtitory), I know what Danny said (regarding precision) when he delivered cups for sale to Bert Easley's Magic Shop in Phoenix - do you? There, I mentioned the word "precision".

Do what you want with your business. You are free to run it into the ground or to build it. It makes no difference to me. I will continue to express my opinions - whether they please you or not.
Jim

Bill Mullins
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bill Mullins » October 1st, 2005, 1:37 am

Originally posted by MagicFan440:

Again, from the standpoint of a consumer...I could buy a 2005 Ford Mustang GT... nice car-- but what car collector is going to even consider purchasing it--most will want the style from 30 years ago.
The 1975 Mustang was a Mustang II, and is not particularly collectible.

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 11:07 am

Boy, I've received criticism on this site...I'm not sure why. All I've been trying to say ALL along is that Danny Dew/Paul Fox cups--and the cups that may have been PRE Danny Dew are what I would consider to be PAUL FOX cups. If I were a collector, these are the cups I would be looking for.

RNT2 has a legal right to make Paul Fox style cups--and advertise as such. I have a set of their cups...they are well made. And the fact that they admitted to making mistakes on the original set, and are in the process of correcting that only adds to their credibility as a company. While making mistakes in business is never a good thing, reputable institutions admit mistakes....correct them...and move on to bigger things. I mean, JEEZ, whenever GM or Ford has a "factory defect" on one of their cars--they publish it...make the corrections......and continue on with business--and no one thinks TWICE about it.

Mr. McGough...what a pompous thing to say about me...that "I deserved it [to be treated bad by Mike Brazil]" I never professed to know the man...I've just met him. When I did, he was arrogant, unfriendly, and acted like a complete jerk to everyone around. I don't personally know him...don't know what he was like to work with...etc. It was just my encouter with him--which I wanted to point out.

Additionally sir...should I contact RNT2 and ask them about this logo incident? Do you have personal intricate knowledge of the business transactions that occurred? Everyone here seems to think they do. I don't know anything about it--but like a normal person, when you don't know something you ask! I think it's best we ask the people involved...so here it goes:

Marcella, did you acquire the PF logo before or after Mike Brazill's association with the company? Was it your idea....or was it his? Whose idea was it to reissue the Paul Fox Cups? How did RNT2 come to hold the PF logo?

It seems that RNT2 and Porper/Biro have worked to resolve their differences. I think that was very ethical of RNT2--since Porper/Biro are working with the Paul Fox Estate.

And for Mr. Palmer and Mr. Riser......I think that you have lost tremendous credibility in these postings. I do not profess to be an expert...I'm a small business owner who happens to perform magic on the side. But my kid is getting into magic. I want to be able to buy him a good set of cups and balls to work with--and I've got no problem buying them from RNT2. Mr. Palmer your over-analysis of these RNT2 "seconds" seems to me that you don't have anything better to do with your time. You whine and complain and I simply don't respect that.

Regards,
Brandon

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 1:28 pm

--In addition, to Mr. Riser...
I reread your Danny Dew Paul Fox cup history, and clicked on the link that showed "Pre-Danny Dew Paul Fox cups that belonged to Vernon". Additionally, I visited Mr Palmers website, out of curiosity. I've got a question...

Mr. Palmer's website shows a "Paul Fox/Danny Dew" model 1 and a "Paul Fox/Danny Dew model 2. This would lead me to believe that the Model 1 came before the model 2--and Danny Dew's name is associated with both models.

The pre-Danny Dew cups you display look like Model 2 cups to me. This leads me to question how you know they are Pre-Danny Dew. Did Paul Fox have 2 different styles to begin with, or did he develop the model

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 1:30 pm

(sorry...sent that before I was done)

...did he develop the model 2 after dissatisfaction with the model 1? Either way, the cups you show look like the second model--my assumption, the later model, which Danny Dew's name is associated.

Brandon

WolfLady
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby WolfLady » October 1st, 2005, 1:35 pm

Brandon

from your post on 09-25-2005 04:43 PM

I've actually met Mike Brazil before...tried working with him, and to be honest...he's a jerk.
In the above quote you said you tried working with Mr. Brazill. In the quote below you said you didn't.

I don't personally know him...don't know what he was like to work with...etc.
Well, which is it?????

I didn't say you deserved to be treated bad by Mike Brazill. I said that if he wasn't nice to you, it was PROBABLY justified. That's still my opinion!

Mark

Bob Walder
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bob Walder » October 1st, 2005, 2:12 pm

And there we go..... up to 2 whole posts and 2 insults so far.

I would still love to know who "McGough" and "Farnsworthy" really are, and the exact nature of their combined agenda (if indeed they are two separate people, which I doubt)

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 2:16 pm



I didn't say you deserved to be treated bad by Mike Brazill. I said that if he wasn't nice to you, it was PROBABLY justified. That's still my opinion!

Mark [/QB]
Well, magicfan is not the only one to be treated badly by Brazill. He was recently seen and heard at the Magic in Rockies were he verbally abusive and used profanity towards a dealer. I was told he had to be removed from the dealers room. I was confirmed by several accounts as I recieved phone calls at 2am in the morning to inform me of his actions out of concern he was slandering the companys name. The incident was confirmed by several very well known people to the magic community whom were both shocked and appauled by this.

While you are entitled to your opinion in my opinion to comment on someones character that you have not worked with or spent extended amounts of time with holds very little validity with people.

It has been brought to my attention as well that Mad Jake has already begun putting together an RNT III Magic, Inc., to open in his hometown of New Orleans and will be opening up a full production facility and retail shop by summer time 2006.

Marcella Zimmerman
President/CEO
RNT II Magic, Inc.

PS. Hi Bob! Hows the new Kitchen?

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 3:10 pm

Mr. McGough--
What I meant is that I don't know how Mr. Brazill is to work with in a business venture or from a business standpoint. When I met him it was only for a brief time, and the time I did work with him--albeit very short, he was rotten--to me and the others. But that was several years ago, and I'd all but forgotten about him, until I joined this forum...and came across this thread.

I didn't deserve to be treated that way. I don't think you have any grounds to comment on it either.
Brandon

WolfLady
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby WolfLady » October 1st, 2005, 3:48 pm

Brandon

On my first post I ask you - How long before RNT II did you work with Mike Brazill? You just keep saying several years. I have the grounds to comment on anything I want to comment on, just like every other person who is posting on this forum.

Mark

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 7:02 pm

Mr. McGough... how long ago...god I don't really know. 20--maybe 25 years ago. I was finishing up high school. But I remember how he acted!

You are entitled to your opinion.......but you weren't there, so I think it be wiser not to comment on things that you don't know about. It makes you sound stupid.
Brandon

WolfLady
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Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby WolfLady » October 1st, 2005, 7:30 pm

Brandon

How many comments have you made on this forum about things you know nothing about?

By the way, did you get an answer to your post shown below?

Marcella, did you acquire the PF logo before or after Mike Brazill's association with the company? Was it your idea....or was it his? Whose idea was it to reissue the Paul Fox Cups? How did RNT2 come to hold the PF logo?
If you did, I haven't seen it.

Mark

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 7:44 pm

Originally posted by MMcGough:
Brandon

How many comments have you made on this forum about things you know nothing about?

By the way, did you get an answer to your post shown below?

Marcella, did you acquire the PF logo before or after Mike Brazill's association with the company? Was it your idea....or was it his? Whose idea was it to reissue the Paul Fox Cups? How did RNT2 come to hold the PF logo?
If you did, I haven't seen it.

Mark
Yes Mark, he did get a reply. If you haven't seen it maybe the information is none of your business or not meant for you.

Marcella Zimmerman
President/CEO
RNT II Magic, Inc.

WolfLady
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Joined: April 11th, 2009, 1:33 am

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby WolfLady » October 1st, 2005, 8:04 pm

Originally Posted by Marcella/Jake

Yes Mark, he did get a reply. If you haven't seen it maybe the information is none of your business or not meant for you.
I'm not the one that asked the questions and I don't need to see the reply. I just wanted to make sure he got the answer to his questions. It didn't have to be a post for the public to see...I wonder why is wasn't :rolleyes:

Mark

Pepka
Posts: 412
Joined: May 4th, 2008, 9:40 am

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Pepka » October 1st, 2005, 8:33 pm

Wow, I guess she told you....na na na na na naaaaaa........ :p

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 8:36 pm

Originally posted by MMcGough:
Originally Posted by Marcella/Jake

Yes Mark, he did get a reply. If you haven't seen it maybe the information is none of your business or not meant for you.
I'm not the one that asked the questions and I don't need to see the reply. I just wanted to make sure he got the answer to his questions. It didn't have to be a post for the public to see...I wonder why is wasn't :rolleyes:

Mark
Mark,
I don't see why you need to make sure he recieves his reply, are you another RNT II watchdog. Why wasn't it posted? Maybe again its not something I feel I need to explain to the masses, especially people who are out to do nothing but pick apart explanations and inflame everything posted.

I have a question for you Mark, you wouldn't be Chessman from the Cafe` would you? I can't tell who you are just by your sig or Mark. If you feel you are in a position to question and post your opinions you should have the common courtesy to let us know who you are, not doing this implys you are hiding something and just flaming.

Marcella Zimmerman
President/CEO
RNT II Magic, Inc.

WolfLady
Posts: 6
Joined: April 11th, 2009, 1:33 am

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby WolfLady » October 1st, 2005, 9:07 pm

:D

User avatar
Brad Jeffers
Posts: 1222
Joined: April 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Location: Savannah, GA

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Brad Jeffers » October 1st, 2005, 9:31 pm

Not only does Marcella carry a nice line of cups, she also has a lot of balls ... which brings me to my question.

On Ebay you have 95 sets of Don Alan chop cup balls (item #6530242437) that are priced at $14.95 each. The same set sells for $24.99 on your website.

Are the sets on Ebay seconds? If so, what is the nature of the defect?

Guest

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Guest » October 1st, 2005, 10:02 pm

Originally posted by Brad Jeffers:
Not only does Marcella carry a nice line of cups, she also has a lot of balls ... which brings me to my question.

On Ebay you have 95 sets of Don Alan chop cup balls (item #6530242437) that are priced at $14.95 each. The same set sells for $24.99 on your website.

Are the sets on Ebay seconds? If so, what is the nature of the defect?
Brad,
the quality of the balls in reference to be seconds, to answer your question they are not exactly seconds, The balls on the site are made with a crochet thread that is quite a bit less expensive than the thread used on the other balls. The balls also have a magnet in them that is a closer match to the magnet for the polarity in the older Don Alan cups rather than the new. The grade of magnets in the new Dons are N45 grade and the ones on ebay are N38. The grades and the thread greatly affect the pricing of the balls.

The other gaffed balls sets are affected only by the rating of the magnet which again is N38 in the ebay balls.

Marcella Zimmerman
President/CEO
RNT II Magic, Inc.

Bob Walder
Posts: 121
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bob Walder » October 2nd, 2005, 2:48 am

Originally posted by MMcGough:
:D
Why do people like you never have the guts to post under a real name? I suppose you are "Farnsworthy" too?

Very sad....

Bill Palmer
Posts: 719
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Houston TX
Contact:

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bill Palmer » October 2nd, 2005, 3:35 am

Now that this whole thing has deteriorated into a round of name-calling, I think I can settle the mess once and for all.

One of the people who purchased a set of the RnT II Stainless Steel Paul Fox factory seconds from quickstopengraving on eBay sent his set of cups to me to photograph. I have examined these cups very closely, both with and without magnification. I have measured the gaps between the bodies and the rims of the cups with a feeler gauge. They are very even at .006 inches. There are no flaws in these cups.

Two of my factory "first" cups have significant defects in the rims. There are chatter marks and waves in the rim beads.

Photographs of these cups are at the following location -- http://www.thaumatomaine.com

I show photos of the mouth and rims of all three of the "factory seconds." I show the defects in the two of my cups that have them.
Bill Palmer, MIMC

Bob Walder
Posts: 121
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Cups, cups, cups

Postby Bob Walder » October 2nd, 2005, 4:04 am

Well, Bill, I can certainly see why you might have been upset with those. I have to say that, as a collector, I would have returned them right away anyway! I am sure both Jake and Marcie will attest to just how picky I can be about my cups! They would not have passed muster.

However, I would have contacted them privately first to gauge their reactions, and only if satisfaction had not been forthcoming would I have ventured into a public forum with my complaint.

As far as I can tell from Jake's posts, you will be receiving a second set of cups - hopefully in perfect condition - once they are available. Your friend who bought the seconds will not.

You will have two sets of cups - one perfect (hopefully) and one you can take out of your display case and use for practice. Your friend will not.

I repeat my earlier assertion - seems like a sweet deal to me. Not sure exactly about what you are complaining


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