Mysterious book

[NCMarsh]

Originally posted by Seb Talbot:
Is it possible, at all, to give us a hint of an idea of what the book is about? I suppose it' s about presentation and theory and such...

Certainly: It is not about presentation, theory, or such...

best,

N.

[Brad Jeffers]

... it deprived a number of people from obtaining their own copy simply because those copies available to pre-order were being depleted by multiple-copy buyers ...

No one has been deprived from obtaining their own copy - they've just been deprived of obtaining a copy for only fifty bucks.

Someone likened it to ticket scalping.

Various amounts of money will go from pocket to pocket. Eventually the 500 individuals who covet this book the most, will have their own copy.

[Pete McCabe]

Originally posted by Jon Elion:
As the old joke goes, "A wallet has been found; all those claiming to have lost it please form a line on the right".

I believe the joke goes "A wallet has been found; will the owner please form a line on the right."


By the way, what would any of the people who find consider this a serious ethical discussion think of a magic shop that bought five copies and gave one away with the first five orders of $500 or more?

[Pete Biro]

Or...

A wad of $100 bills with a rubber band around them, and no I.D. has been found. If the owner would like the rubber band back, please form a line to the right.

Or...

A wallet containing several hundred dollars has been found by actress Helen Hunt. If the owner would like to get it back go to Helen Hunt for it.

Ka Boom :whack:

[Matthew Field]

The buying of multiple copies for resale is what comic book collectors do. They reduce something to its lowest, basest value (namely $).

Still awaiting my copy over here in England, but I think a treatise by Max Maven on finesses for Color Monte is well worth the money.

Whoa -- did I just let out the secret? Sorry about that.

Matt Field

[Anthony Brahams]

I have not seen this book which apparently has not yet arrived in the U.K. but a better reason is that I have not purchased it!

The word "distasteful", although used earlier in this Forum in aother context, might have to apply to the book because of its title. "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is one of the most racist, anti-semitic publications of all time and has been banned in many places. Perhaps there are reasons for the title of the new book, I have too high an opinion of Stephen and Max to think they regard the bad taste as humourous but am open-minded in wishing to know the reason.

[John LeBlanc]

Originally posted by Anthony Brahams:
The word "distasteful", although used earlier in this Forum in aother context, might have to apply to the book because of its title. "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is one of the most racist, anti-semitic publications of all time and has been banned in many places. Perhaps there are reasons for the title of the new book, I have too high an opinion of Stephen and Max to think they regard the bad taste as humourous but am open-minded in wishing to know the reason.

There are many ways to convey a thought in a book. One way used by many people is to just come right out and state it. It's direct, but not very intellectually stimulating. Another way appeals to the nature of some people to find meaning in the things they read.

You can call a man cruel and be done with it. Or you can say he once told you he loves butterflies -- especially the way they crawl around the window sill after he pulls their wings off. They say, essentially, the same thing.

Just mentioning "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" short-circuits the brain for most people -- they can't get past their most immediate reaction to it. Studying that "thing", its history, its impact is like asking someone off the street to conduct an autopsy on a six month old corpse; most would frown, express disgust, and be content to say "it stinks" and move on without ever discovering why the very concept of the book is fundamentally flawed.

But if you know enough about "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", by the time you get to the end of Maven's new book, you might find a few reasons for his selection of title. Max is many things, and provocative is one of them. (The word "provocative" is worth looking up, by the way.)

On the other hand, some people don't like reading Max's style. For them, this unpleasant little book only serves as yet another reason to not like Max's writing style.

John
http://www.escamoteurettes.com/blog/

[Anthony Brahams]

John, Thank you for your reasoning. I did mention that I had not read the book and so attempted not to make ignorance the basis of my comments, thus I appreciate your posting.I will try to read the book!

[Countelmsley]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Seb Talbot:
Is it possible, at all, to give us a hint of an idea of what the book is about? I suppose it' s about presentation and theory and such...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Certainly: It is not about presentation, theory, or such...
-------------------------------------------------

Thanx for the info, Nathan! It' s appreciated! :D I' ll just keep wondering...

Good day,
Seb

[Bob Farmer]

I have decided to reveal the secret, but there isn't much time, I can hear them trying to break the door in. This may cost me my life, but the book is all about the nnvm,//@3.....


MR. FARMER HAS BEEN TERMINATED WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE. OTHERS WHO ARE CONSIDERING BREAKING THE SILENCE BE WARNED: WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU ARE.

TIME TO SHUT DOWN MR. FARMER'S COMPUTER--

[Guest]

Anyone from Canada receive their Protocols yet?

[magicam]

Seb:

It was not fair of Nathan to tease you like that, so I will tell you about the Protocols: the past may indeed be prologue.

Clay

[Jonathan Townsend]

Originally posted by Magicam:
...I will tell you about the Protocols: the past may indeed be prologue.

Those who fail to learn from the past are destined to repeat it as comedy.

[magicam]

Alas, Jonathan, it's not always funny when folks ignore the lessons of history, but maybe you were referring to a "tragic comedy," as oxymoronic as that term seems. Clay

[Guest]

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:

Originally posted by Magicam:
[b]...I will tell you about the Protocols: the past may indeed be prologue.

Those who fail to learn from the past are destined to repeat it as comedy. [/b]

Oh Yeah?!!!

Best, PSC

P.S. The past isn't even the present, much less the future, until one reads the book... (Wrap your cerebrum around that one!)

[Guest]

Wait until you all find out you didn't purchase the book but really leased it.
Steve V

[Countelmsley]

Thanks Magicam for the enlightenment... :help:

[Guest]

Well, a nice discussion on the ethics of scalping books, but durn little on this book itself beyond a few surface comments. So let me try and make some comments without revealing the secret, such as it is, to those who may not have their copies yet.

As all buyers put in their opinions, I suspect we'll find that several people are going to find this book a bold move to make an important statement. I think many other will feel like they've been taken.

As for myself, I'm in between. I feel that this is what could have been the first half of a great little book.

The problem is that the book's statement can be read in more than one way, and that the material contained in the book can be seen to point in at least two totally conflicting directions. This material, and its ambiguity, deserves analysis, commentary and discussion. It ain't there.

My suspicion is that Max intends for us to pick up that ball in these forums and at various other real and virtual get-togethers. We should. I'm just not sure that a book which impels us to do so in such a way is worth the price charged.

I was expecting a book that did more than just point out a question or two. I expected a book that jumped into the question to provide Max's insight. Not that I had any idea what the question or point would be until I opened my copy, of course. But then, I wasn't looking for scholarly discussion, either. I expected satire, humor, a tongue (possibly forked) imbedded in cheek, or any of the other devious devices Max has at his disposal.

What I have is an amusing and collectable bauble of a conversation-starter.

The reaction to the book, and the conversations that ensue, will determine whether it was worth the price.

[NCMarsh]

Steve's point about the absence of discussion of the real issues raised by the book is right on target.

A few thoughts:

• I think that the near absence of editorial comment (the epigraph does seem to push one interpretation) is one of the great strengths of the book. It is a cattleprod -- you can't put it down without asking yourself "what does this mean?" "Why was it possible to write this?"
• I don't know how to discuss this without talking about the secret, so i'll lay out the questions that are shaping my thinking and leave that problem to those who may choose to respond to them:
  
  Is mediocrity perennial? Is it that nostalgia is illusory or that things really are getting worse? Is magic, in the end, much hardier and much better than we think it is in our most cynical moments? Could a pleasant little book be written about the opposite secret? Or, more strongly, could the things that would fill that pleasant book be true, and yet it would still be impossible to write a pleasant little book? What would that say about us? Why would we gravitate toward the darker secret? Could the same unpleasant little book be written about any art, or is there something about this particular one that makes it possible?

I still think it was cheap of Max to just write 42 on every page...

Best,

N.
IllusionArtistry.com

[Jonathan Townsend]

The book

The story of the book

The story of acquiring the book

About magic in particular...

A strange art where one injects stories into the reality of others. Mind you that injection need not be effective beyond inducing the infected with some need to propagate some interpretation of the original story.

Ideas become actions which affect a few. The few disseminate their experience, to immunize they believe, yet instead propagate a story which is now that of the teller and not the original doer.

And so, the thoughts of one become the tale of others and from that, the story becomes part of our social truth.

There may yet be a small book forthcoming about the how-to of stories FOR audiences.

But back to the dark question posed above for now... Given that we magicians do need to inject our tales, we come to the problem of how to treat each other. Many bristle with ego, venom and act the part of porcupines. Some offer a more personable mien.

Some have learned that what they do as magicians for audiences need not affect how they act as people in our small society and keep their wands holstered when not onstage.

A bright person wrote a nice reminder about overcoming one's initial motivations for entering the craft of magic.

Where then do we separate our persona as magician from our artistic self which makes the tales? Do other performers, perhaps those in acting have a secret for us in that department?

[Guest]

The Protocols of The Elders of Magic number 146 has arrived to my home in Italy yesterday.
I've already read it.
Most certainly i will need to read it more and more times.
Well...
i really don't know what to say without revealing the secret.
But probably i must admit my own ignorance or stupidity..
because i didn't understand what the secret is!
Yes..i think i've understood what Max wanted to point out..but i really didn't find out the secret!!
If someone would kindly discuss it with me via email..i would appreciate it.
If you want to be sure i received the book you can ask me some questions via email that only with the book in front of me i can answer..(obviously the only thing i can tell is the place of a single letter in a chosen line in a chose page..otherwise i will give information to people who camouflage themselves for book owners!)
but i really need to understand more!
Another thing i can't understand is the title in relation with this book.
I mean i know more or less about the original protocols..but maybe i don't know enough.
Waiting for a good or more enlighted soul to discuss this book deeply with me..
i give you my best regards.
By the way..the best thing would be to discuss the book in a forum thread.
isn't it possible to create a secret thread in which only the owners of the book have got the password?
This is because i think this book really needs to be discussed deeper.
At first sight it seems a little trivial and stupid book(yes, at first sight it seems so stupid)...
but i think there is something great and very uneasy about this book.
It is a camouflaged book..
Thanks to all..
and hail the Crimsonking!

[Guest]

Originally posted by crimsonking:
By the way..the best thing would be to discuss the book in a forum thread.
isn't it possible to create a secret thread in which only the owners of the book have got the password?

That is no longer necessary. The secret has been tipped somewhere else online. This should spread pretty quickly.

[Jonathan Townsend]

The book is it's own message.

What secret?

[Guest]

I think the secret was, at least for me, how long could we as magicians keep a secret. Apparently, about a week. Kind of sad really.

Mark

[Guest]

The secret has been spread???
Oh my God!
Blame on the soul who spread the secret!
Shame on You!

[Guest]

By the way..
the first person who spread the secret should be banned forever by the magic world!
Mr.Jonathan I don't understand the secret fo the book.
Would you please email me and tell me.
And i really don't get the relation between the title and the original Protocols.
Please help me.

[John LeBlanc]

Originally posted by crimsonking:
And i really don't get the relation between the title and the original Protocols.
Please help me.

I could be wrong, but I'm the only one (publicly) suggesting a relationship between the original title and the title of the Maven book. If you were a fan of Max's MAGIC Magazine column over the years, you'll recognize what I mean.

I'll put it this way: art is interpretive. One of the interesting aspects of this book, I believe, is it will be interpreted in different ways (and probably for different reasons.) Now, I'm not suggesting one needs to spend a lifetime decyphering and subsequently pondering deep meaning out of this, as though one were studying the Bible. What I am suggesting is that, after several readings, I found irony. And I love irony.

John
http://www.escamoteurettes.com/blog/

[Jonathan Townsend]

Originally posted by crimsonking:
By the way..
the first person who spread the secret should be banned forever by the magic world!...

Funny guy. Sad if you mean it. What then would the rest of the gossipers discuss?

There have been naysayers for a long time. People on the city streets with signs saying "The End is Near" for at least a thousand years.

And yet most seem to enjoy the trembling expectation of an end, and some vague promises that they will be well treated at some new beginning.

A study of history would correct that naive and childish belief. Yet who wants to grow up, make things work today and act responsibly when there is so much more to be gained by fostering vanity?

[John LeBlanc]

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
There have been naysayers for a long time. People on the city streets with signs saying "The End is Near" for at least a thousand years.

Yes, but you know what they say about broken watches... :)

John
http://www.escamoteurettes.com/blog/

[Guest]

Mr LeBlanc..
i consider your posts always to the point.
Can you help me to understand the secret?
Also by email.
Because i really can't get it!
Well..
i have an idea, which involves sense of humour, but i don't know if it is the right one.
Thanks.
Unfortunately i didn't read Mr.Maven column.

[John LeBlanc]

Originally posted by crimsonking:
Mr LeBlanc..
i consider your posts always to the point.

Well, there's something I don't hear every day.

Originally posted by crimsonking:
Can you help me to understand the secret?
Also by email.
Because i really can't get it!
Well..
i have an idea, which involves sense of humour, but i don't know if it is the right one.
Thanks.
Unfortunately i didn't read Mr.Maven column.

All I can do is summarize my interpretation of things -- which may well be at odds with your own -- but I'm happy to do that in email later this evening.

John
http://www.escamoteurettes.com/blog/

[Guest]

is it a book test??

[Jonathan Townsend]

Originally posted by TheMagicApple:
is it a book test??

Not a floor wax or desert topping either.

A book test... would be ironic.

[magicam]

It IS a book test ... of sorts

[Bob Farmer]

I suspect that each copy of the book is completely different, so if any one purchaser reveals the "secret," the revelation only covers 1/500th of the entire secret.

This suggests what might be an interesting experiment: distribute a killer effect in 500 pieces to 500 different magicians and see how long it takes for each part of the secret to be revealed and assembled.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Bob Farmer:
I suspect that each copy of the book is completely different, so if any one purchaser reveals the "secret," the revelation only covers 1/500th of the entire secret.

This suggests what might be an interesting experiment: distribute a killer effect in 500 pieces to 500 different magicians and see how long it takes for each part of the secret to be revealed and assembled.

Now that would take more than a week

:)

Mark

[Terrence]

I wonder if Max is reading any of these ideas and thinking - "What a great idea - wish I had thought of it!". ;)

[Bill Duncan]

Originally posted by John LeBlanc:
Yes, but you know what they say about broken watches... :)

Well, when I was a kid they would say that even a broken watch is right twice a day.

But that was twenty plus years ago, before the ape-descended life forms that rule this planet decided that digital watches were a pretty neat idea and changed it to a broken watch is useless piece of disposable electronic crap thats not worth repairing. Buy another one.

[Richard Hatch]

Originally posted by TheMagicApple:
is it a book test??

If you have the book, open it now to any page. Don't tell me which one. Do you see a number on the left hand page? Not the page number... Concentrate on it... I see a 1 and a 9, is that correct? And all the numbers on all the pages are different, correct? Let's try something more challenging... Concentrate on the text. Read it silently to yourself... I get a sensation of impending doom, death, destruction... Correct? And the text on each page is different? Incredible!

[John LeBlanc]

Originally posted by Richard Hatch:
Incredible!

Awww, man. I was hoping to keep that one to myself.

John
http://www.escamoteurettes.com/blog/