Copperfield Raid

[Guest]

Originally posted by Mark Wilden:

Originally posted by Bill Palmer:
[b] This whole thing is fishy. But it goes to show you that no matter who you are, if the FBI goes after you, they will get you. The charges may not stick, but they will be really difficult to shake.

How do you know that, Bill?

Hypothetically, if the FBI investigated someone and found out their quarry was completely innocent and closed the case, would we hear about it? Of course not. It's like all news - we only hear the bad stuff. So extrapolating from it is not reliable.

I knew a young FBI agent. He was a socialist, believe it or not. He said it gave him great pleasure hunting down white-collar criminals who were screwing their workers. Interesting perspective.

///ark [/b]

Two words -- Richard Jewell

[Guest]

Originally posted by Bill Palmer:
Two words -- Richard Jewell

The singular of "data" is not "anecdote."

///ark

[Guest]

Originally posted by Dave V:
Here are some updates:
The FBI says they DID NOT take any cash.

This has already been mentioned twice (with links) in this thread.

Hence, no longer an update.

[Jim Maloney_dup1]

Originally posted by Mark Wilden:

Originally posted by Jim Maloney:
[b]If the person in question is as high profile as David, then you would certainly hear something from someone about it.
-Jim

I don't see how you could know that. Especially if the person in question didn't know about himself.

///ark [/b]

If the case is closed, then the accused will certainly be informed.

-Jim

[Guest]

Uh-oh...

[Guest]

Originally posted by Jim Maloney:
If the case is closed, then the accused will certainly be informed.
-Jim

Are you sure, Jim? I guess it depends on how far the investigation went. And we certainly know that in years past investigations were made of people who never knew it. For example, I cannot believe they don't have a jacket on my dad, but we'll never really know.

///ark

[Jim Maloney_dup1]

Originally posted by Mark Wilden:

Originally posted by Jim Maloney:
[b]If the case is closed, then the accused will certainly be informed.
-Jim

Are you sure, Jim? I guess it depends on how far the investigation went. And we certainly know that in years past investigations were made of people who never knew it. For example, I cannot believe they don't have a jacket on my dad, but we'll never really know.

///ark [/b]

There's a difference between investigating a person without their knowledge, and conducting an investigation of public figure (including a raid on their place of work, resulting in the siezure of personal property) that gets reported in the media, along with accusations that are damaging to his reputation. So yeah, I'm fairly certain they'd let DC know if they closed this case.

-Jim

[Guest]

Whoa! That's what happens when you try to respond to somebody's post and they delete it...

(Sorry Brad....you really had a neat post that I could respond to perfectly....tsk tsk...)

opie

[Brad Henderson]

I didn't delete it. Guess the fates were against you.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Mark Wilden:

Originally posted by Bill Palmer:
[b]Two words -- Richard Jewell

The singular of "data" is not "anecdote."

///ark [/b]

How clever. So, what is the crap that you are telling us that your anecdotal "friend" who was in the FBI told you -- data? Do you think that you are the only person on this forum who knows an FBI agent. The son of the fellow who played bass with me for almost a decade is a field agent for the FBI.

Check on what happened to Richard Jewell. His is just one of MANY such incidents.

[Guest]

I'm talking about where the FBI opened an investigation, found no compelling evidence for a warrant, closed the case, and no one was the wiser.

This was in reply to the comment that "if the FBI goes after you, they will get you." I think this impression arises because the FBI doesn't exactly publicize their failures.

Honestly, I don't see why this should pose any difficulties. I cede the floor!

///ark

[Guest]

I did delete a couple of posts in the grammar subthread, since the OP had deleted his.

///ark

[Guest]

Originally posted by Bill Palmer:

Originally posted by Mark Wilden:
The singular of "data" is not "anecdote."

How clever.

It's not mine. It's pretty common saying in the science world. It just means that "two words" are rarely going to be enough to decide any question of importance.

Anyway, I can't believe you aren't bringing up Hoover.

So, what is the crap that you are telling us that your anecdotal "friend" who was in the FBI told you -- data?

No, it's an anecdote about an FBI man I knew. I thought he had a very interesting political philosphy for a "G-man," don't you think? So, whether you think it was crap or not, it was an aside to the conversation. I wasn't adducing the dude for any other purpose.

Check on what happened to Richard Jewell. His is just one of MANY such incidents.

Interesting, if true [the "many" part, not Jewell]. However, Richard Jewell's case doesn't prove anything by itself. That's all I was saying.

Bill, I don't think we're going to walk away agreeing to disagree on this one, so, as I told the other fellow, I cede the floor.

///ark

[Guest]

Originally posted by Brad Henderson:
Did not know you were away, Opie. Things are fine here. Watching the drama unfold like everyone else in our little world.

You know, Brad........It is kind of weird how the news laid out some sort of "story" about one of our heoros and did not even follow up, after the initial "suggestive" story about David....Duh!

I really hope that no news media will even consider posting any "news" that is not totally true..

Keep the home fires burning.....

This is my first trip to DC.............They are really messed up up here....

RICHARD: Run for President!!!!! hahaha....

opie

[Richard Kaufman]

Really? I like our little corner of the world in Washington, DC. Sure, the politics are a drag, but you'd be surprised how little of it you encounter if you are just an ordinary citizen here (as most of us are).

It's a pretty city, and relatively quiet compared to some others.

I also don't want to see any more remarks between Brad and Opie. Thanks, fellas.

[Guest]

It is a wonderful city, Richard...An old friend, who works high up in the Government gave me a ride through Embassy Row and explained how there were few "barriers" in front of most of them. I felt better about whether or not to fear some sort of assault against our government....

I think the fear of some sort of attack against our country is minimal.....and any fear of any kind of assault by me is totally NUL.....

Getting back on topic, I fear that the only fear we have today is that we might be very careful about making a lot of money and saying "HI" to anybody....SIGH!!

When David has done something wrong, let us hang a wreath on the Statue of Liberty......if we can find it.....

Peace on Earth.....opie

[Guest]

Today's New York Post (Oct. 21) reports that Copperfield has canceled a performance in Indonesia... David's lawyer said the canceled show was a result of unfulfilled contractual agreements.

[Brad Henderson]

RK, I thought we were playing nice!

It is my understanding that the Indonesian tour was canceled, or in the process of being canceled, for other reasons prior to this incident.

[Geno Munari]

Someone mentioned in this thread about David Copperfield, the security guard Richard Jewell, from Atlanta who was falsely accused of a bombing.

A few people believed in him. One was the legendary Billy Packer, from CBS Sports.

Billy Packer picked up most of Jewell's legal fees.

This is one stand up guy.

I never would have shared this with the Forum. But Jewell's name was brought up.

[Guest]

Im just catching up on these events, because i was layed up with a cold.

one thing is really nagging at me.

what person would wait to get home before reporting such an incident?

Its a traumatic event. The whole thing sounds so very fishy to me.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Dale Shrimpton:
Im just catching up on these events, because i was layed up with a cold.

one thing is really nagging at me.

what person would wait to get home before reporting such an incident?

Its a traumatic event. The whole thing sounds so very fishy to me.

Are you an expert on post rape behavior? If not, why comment?

Since none of us appears to know the true facts, maybe we should avoid speculating, passing judgment or opining either way?

[Steve Bryant]

Hey, Geno, Billy's a great guy, but too much of an ACC fan.

-- Steve
Big Ten fan

[Jim Maloney_dup1]

Originally posted by MaxNY:
Today's New York Post (Oct. 21) reports that Copperfield has canceled a performance in Indonesia... David's lawyer said the canceled show was a result of unfulfilled contractual agreements.

I'm reading today that the whole southeast Asia tour has been canceled -- Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and Thailand. They're hoping to reschedule.

-Jim

[Guest]

Originally posted by Magicam:

Originally posted by Dustin:
[b] We are a fascinating bunch...

Ummm, "fascinating" is not the word that comes to my mind, but I nonetheless applaud Dustin's post.

Clay [/b]

We are not fascinated by this,
but its quite ironic that there
have been two pages of discussion
devoted to this publicity stunt.

[NCMarsh]

Mai-Ling Said:

to this publicity stunt.

Because being accused of rape is such a great way to get butts in the seats....

[Guest]

Originally posted by Joe Pike:
Since none of us appears to know the true facts, maybe we should avoid speculating, passing judgment or opining [b]either way? [/b]

I'll ask again: Why not? It's not hurting anyone, and some of us seem to enjoy it. And, frankly, if you don't like gathering around the ol' cracker barrel, this is not the thread to read.

///ark

[NCMarsh]

I'll ask again: Why not? It's not hurting anyone, and some of us seem to enjoy it.

I am a close friend of a rape victim, and know very well someone who was wrongly accused of rape. I have seen a small crack into what is a very dark world. Both are truly horrific situations. We do not know the facts in this case, but we know this much: either there was a rape and there is a victim of rape, or there was not and there is a victim of a wrongful rape accusation.

One of these two people is in the middle of a humiliating, painful, public ordeal.

Publicly speculating that someone is insane or inventing a claim to hurt someone else...or suggesting that a performer has somehow arranged to be accused of rape...only adds to the enormous difficulty of this situation for whoever it is that actually is the victim

Is the additional damage huge? Perhaps not...I am not in a position to know...but it seems arrogant and unkind to make a situation more difficult for one's own amusement

The pain and difficulty I have seen people I care about go through in rape situations has been tremendous -- and these were private tragedies...I can't imagine what its like to have the world watching...and to have the kids in the back of the room snickering at your pain..

[Guest]

Originally posted by Nathan Coe Marsh:
Publicly speculating that someone is insane or inventing a claim to hurt someone else...or suggesting that a performer has somehow arranged to be accused of rape...only adds to the enormous difficulty of this situation for whoever it is that actually is the victim

I think that this little discussion adds exactly zero to the difficulty of DC or his alleged victim. We're gathering around the water cooler here, not writing op-eds for the Times.

///ark

[NCMarsh]

Even if they don't see it (and you're right, they probably won't) it is still ugly

[Richard Kaufman]

The latest on the show cancellations here on CNN.com:
Click here to read it.

[Roger M.]

Originally posted by Nathan Coe Marsh:
Even if they don't see it (and you're right, they probably won't) it is still ugly

You may want carefully to re-read Geno's post on page one.
I thought his drift was loud and clear.

[Guest]

mai-ling are you implying that Copperfield's people set himself up as beeing accused to be a rapist?
Could you explain for the less gifted of us here on the forum how Copperfield would benefit from this publicity stunt....
Are you for real? :whack:

[Pete Biro]

nt DC's publicity stunt, the accuser's

[Guest]

Originally posted by mai-ling:

Originally posted by Magicam:
[b]

Originally posted by Dustin:
[b] We are a fascinating bunch...

Ummm, "fascinating" is not the word that comes to my mind, but I nonetheless applaud Dustin's post.

Clay [/b]

We are not fascinated by this,
but its quite ironic that there
have been two pages of discussion
devoted to this publicity stunt. [/b]

Frances, I'm pretty sure that my post and Dustin's post focused on social dynamics; as such, I tend to think that they are not the ideal launching points for your post. And FWIW, you might want to clarify who you think is behind such publicity stunt.

C.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
nt DC's publicity stunt, the accuser's

Yep, that's what every girl wants on her resume: Raped by David Copperfield!

OK, I think it's time for someone to say that she must have asked for it, and then we can wrap up here.

///ark

[Guest]

I need some free publicity, maybe I should rape someone here in my area ?!?

[Steve Snediker]

I guess I've refrained from making my normal smart ass replies because of my own personal grief that this discussion is "taking the magic" out of a community like this.

I don't particularly "like" DC, but I do respect both his accomplishments and his personal privacy.

I am a little grieved by the course this thread has taken. Frankly, any press of this sort is bad for the art.

Bitchin' mode OFF.

Let the flames begin.

[NCMarsh]

Originally posted by Blair Morris:

Originally posted by Nathan Coe Marsh:
[b] Even if they don't see it (and you're right, they probably won't) it is still ugly

You may want carefully to re-read Geno's post on page one.
I thought his drift was loud and clear. [/b]

Blair,

Point taken. I had not read Geno's post previously. I think it makes a stronger case for restraint when it comes to airing uninformed speculation about this.

N.

[Richard Kaufman]

Okay, I think we're done here for the moment.

I've had information regarding the cancellation of the tour in Asia: this took place BEFORE the recent action by the FBI and was, I heard, because the promotors (who are now claiming they're out lots of money, etc.) were actually unable to guarantee the amount of money promised to David at each venue. Normally this would've flown under the radar, but it seems as if the promoters in Asia are taking advantage of subsequent events in order to make it seem as if David has not honored his agreement with them instead of the other way around.

I've also had some anecdotal information regarding the accuser in the case, but I'll refrain from posting that at the moment.

As many women have learned to their regret, men can be real pigs and have raped lots of women.

As many men have learned to their regret, scorned and/or greedy women can cry rape very easily and cause a lot of trouble where sex was consensual. And famous and wealthy people are particularly vulnerable targets.

So, there are two possible sides to the story and until more information is forthcoming from respected media outlets, or either of the principals involved, let's close this thread.