Trouble on The Magic Cafe

[Guest]

Josh,

Did they actually tell you that's why the thread was deleted? Sounds like a handy excuse to me. I hope someone saved the thread content and will perhaps repost somewhere less biased....

[Guest]

no they did not, apperently someone insulted Thomas Wayne in the thread. and god knows the cafe can;t have a single trace of that, so they get rid of the whole thing

[Guest]

From what I read, TW did some insulting himself. I guess it's more about WHO gets insulted over there.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Amos McCormick:
Blah, blah, blah, blah, [b]Nazis, blah, blah, blah, Hitler blah, blah, blah...

Does that mean this discussion is now closed? [/b]

Till we learn to treat raving hateful madmen as entertainment and rather than as acceptable leaders we will remain vulnerable to what happened last century. I doubt our fussing over the iconography and craftsmanship of Germany under the NSDAP will go away until we can distinguish good design from bad political agendas.

Now over at the place where the color scheme and design are less art-deco, it seems that the caf staff use Thomas Wayne to handle their blitzkrieg against any efforts to educate the chattel. I am impressed that they keep Thomas Wayne around as a "magician helping magicians" as his behavior makes them appear hypocritical. Perhaps they see him as someone who needs help? I mean if we can't help our own ... interesting contrast to the discomfort they have been causing a member with screen name "mano" who's been supportive to most and a positive contributer in general IMHO.

In the mean time, folks can enjoy the latest from MM who seems have decided to offer a version of the visual coins across using Steve Dusheck's copper/silver transposition gaff.

IF the sets are cheap enough to buy multiple sets, the gaffs and coins could be used for other tricks.

[Guest]

i can't imagine using plastic morgans though =D i think id go for porpers chips if i could not afford the real dollars

[Guest]

Originally posted by Joshua Barrett:
i can't imagine using plastic morgans though =D i think id go for porpers chips if i could not afford the real dollars

Real dollars are paper Joshua. Okay you can also get some silver or gold colored quarter sized coins if you want sometimes.

Or can you get something better with four quarters at the bank there? If so, I've got a pile of small change here... :D

[Guest]

that may be true, but there is a look, feel, weight, sound, issue with plastic over real silver. persoanlyl i don;t like using quarters

[Guest]

Only slightly back on topic, I've heard from the Cafe that they have only removed the Digital Dissolve thread temporarily while they edit out the last few posts....

[Guest]

yes i finally got a pm about that. im glad. =)

[Guest]

Good news, Josh. I'm happy to hear that the Digital Dissolve thread will be coming back, sans divergence into the "Illusion Coins" discussion. The Digital Dissolve thread was one of the rare instances when people on other forums have actually cited the Cafe as authoritative.

I wonder if the separate Illusion Coins thread will return? Most of it was supportive of Bob Kohler and against plastic knock-offs.

Which brings us to an interesting question for another part of the forum--do you consider it a knock-off to reproduce an existing marketed effect, but in plastic? And what if the routine supplied with the prop is a dumbed-down version of the routine supplied with the existing marketed effect?

[Guest]

Originally posted by Curtis Kam:
Which brings us to an interesting question for another part of the forum--do you consider it a knock-off to reproduce an existing marketed effect, but in plastic? And what if the routine supplied with the prop is a dumbed-down version of the routine supplied with the existing marketed effect?

How is that anything BUT knockoff?

unless you missed out the bit about giving the creator money?

[Jeff Haas]

It's unclear to me...exactly what is being knocked off? Is it a plastic version of U3F? Or a plastic version of the Dushek C/S? Any links?

[Guest]

I tend to agree, especially about the money to the creator, but I'm thinking:

1. In this situation, is there any damage to the producer of the earlier and superior product? Would anyone who might reasonably be expected to spend, say, $300 on the effect made from real money, actually forego that in favor of paying $125 for plastic coins?

2. In other instances, simply changing the material from which a prop is made conveys significant advantages. For instance, the manufacture of thumb tips out of plastic, rather than metal. Is this a knock off (which we would want to discourage) or an improvement (which we hope to encourage)?

3. In other instances, changing the material offers an advantage only to the manufacturer--the development of plastic sets of cups and balls, ball vases, and spikes through coin have allowed magic dealers to sell props to an entirely different market, one with less money.

[Guest]

It would seem at best hypocritical to condemn this new plastic MM offering while not also condemning the Kohler product. On what grounds could one object?

Gaff-Technology is there a patent on the exact gaff used in this new product? Routine copyright? Sorry that too is not covered by law as it is not exactly what Bob offered. But what about permission the still naive might ask...

What's left? ethics? Think real carefully on that one.

On the good side I heard it's more than 20-50 dollars and so has likely priced itself out of a market. Here's hoping the free market gets it right. :whack:

[Jeff Haas]

I found a link that shows what's being discussed. Includes a video clip.

Illusion Coins on Magic Makers website

[Guest]

This thread started out as a comment regarding the Magic Cafe. Yes, there are good and bad aspects of the Cafe and the same could probably be said of most forums by at least a few of the members. I for one, have gotten a lot of useful information from the cafe regarding various effects. This has enabled me to save money by not buying and by leading me to purchase some worthwhile products. Many of the members offer some useful information, while others do not. I accept the fact that evrything will not be exactly to my liking. I also believe that I am not everyone's favorite contributor. For example I have always requested that when anyone offers a review of an item, that they state Pro's and Con's for that item. Since no item is perfect I have always considered that a fair request which is rarely adhered to by reviewers. Thankfully I have found good in all forums and hopefully I have made worthwhile exchanges of ideas in those forums.