laugh out loud funny - magic cafe fight

[Guest]

I started it, and I don't know how long the moderators are going to allow the thread up - but Farmer and Field have jumped into the fray, and the conflagration is laugh out loud funny. Do an exact search for the phrase "Expert Deck" at the Magic Cafe. Make sure you don't have to urinate first.

[Guest]

Thanks, that was fun. Page three is hilarious!

To save you all searching, here's the link:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... rum=109&66

Dave

[Adrian Kuiper]

That thread is both hysterically funny and annoying at the same time. Well....perhaps more funny than annoying. Certainly not a way to do business.

[Bob Farmer]

The one-page of garbled instructions for "The Expert Deck" direct you to, "...draw one card out, turn it around and slide it back in the opposite direction (like in the 'Svengali Deck') ..."

Given that Haim Goldenberg, the "inventor," and presumably an "expert," doesn't know the difference between a Svengali Deck and a Stripper Deck, perhaps purchasers should reconsider shelling out $35 for a deck with an edged-marked line and a false effect description.

Here's an alternative: take the $35 and buy Volume 8 of Tarbell (now there's a guy who could tell a Svengali from a Stripper). Look up "The Devil's Deck" -- this is a real edge-marked miracle.

[David Regal]

Bob -

I may never forgive you for pointing out The Devil's Deck. Now that is a weapon.

[Guest]

I was just reading up on the Devils Deck yesterday and thought I was going to be slickin' it by folks. That Cafe thread was pretty sad, I like the ethnocentric support the deck maker has.
Steve V

[Bob Farmer]

David Ben would have posted this himself but he's forgotten his log-in name and password (Dave, RK tells me they are, respectively, "Ruse Cervon" and "floccinaucinihillipillification".)

Anyway, the idea of using an edge-marked deck to locate a selected card is ancient. Dave mentioned to me a completely impromptu version by Ross Bertram: simply score the edge with your thumbnail.

There is also an excellent discussion of using edge marks in "Secret of the Palmettos" written and published by that guy in Idaho.

[Jeff Eline]

That's Komical!

[Guest]

Originally posted by Bob Farmer:

Anyway, the idea of using an edge-marked deck to locate a selected card is ancient. Dave mentioned to me a completely impromptu version by Ross Bertram: simply score the edge with your thumbnail.

An impromptu method is described in Arthur Buckley's 'Card Control' (p.51) called The Domico Location.

[Adam Brooks]

Ok folks, thanks to the hilarity of both Bob Farmer and Matt Field, I present to you:

A Really Funny Gag You Can Use At Your Next Magic Convention, Variation #243

I claim absolutely no originality for the ideas herein:

Have your deck shuffled, and have someone think of any card (5H). Have the deck shuffled some more. Have someone name a number between 1 and 52 (14). Spread the deck face up, and count to that number (14). The 8D is the 14th card.

Voila! The thought-of card at of thought-of number! Huh? Oh, the 5H isn't the 14th card... oh, here it is, exactly 11 cards away. But look, look, there's a message on the back of the 8D... it says "Off by the number of cards between this card and the thought of card."

Grab your cards and run.

Just write that message on the back of every card in your deck and you have a no-fail miracle!

I'll be marketing a version soon that uses some obscure principle discovered decades ago, and that a few magicians still use to fry magicians, but that isn't 100% failsafe, and it still really clever. You'll buy it, won't you? :rolleyes:

[Guest]

The verbage sounds like a sript from Saturday Night Live, totally insane.
Would like to say thanks to Bob Farmer for the info on the Devils Deck, very nice method , check it out.
Hopefully by tomorrow the Magic Cafe will have expunged all the comments on the "Expert Deck"I do not feel too many more will be sold anyway.
Rennie

[Jim Riser]

To avoid having to edge mark the deck or resort to such crude methods see:
http://jamesriser.com/Mythical/CardCounter.html

:D

[Bill Mullins]

I note that Bob Kohler and Thomas Wayne have a similar device available, but you only rent it from them, and you have to promise not to talk about it -- whoops, I just did.

[Brisbin]

Bob, please - there's more than one "guy in Idaho." THE guy in Idaho, Ray Grismer, told the funniest story (albeit maybe a recycled tale) about the guy in Boise who advertised himself as "Idaho's Best Magician." After performing for the kids in a summer recreation program run by Mr. Grismer in Couer d'Alene, "Mr. Best" asked Ray, "Well, did I fool you?" "Yes," answered Ray, "I thought you were going to be good!" :D

[Bob Farmer]

Adam Brooks' idea is genius. We are not worthy.

[Matthew Field]

Jim Riser's web page is just great. Reminded me of the magic trick "explanations" Milt Larsen used to have in Genii.

Hey, Richard and Jim -- how about some more of these for my favorite magazine?

Matt Field

[Robert Allen]

Jim Riser rocks. My favorite is his "Do It Yourself Riser Mini-cups" kit:

"I know that some of you will feel the price ($165 per set) on these cups is too high or perhaps you just can not wait for me to get them spun.

Well, I have a "special" just for you. Click here to see this special offer."

The link this leads to is:
http://www.jamesriser.com/Magic/MiniCup/DYI.html

[Wolfgang]

Please take this very serious: Soon we will release a sensational trick to the magic community that will blow even the most knowledgeble magician away, the effect is as follows: Take a brand new deck out of an inocent looking card box, have three (or five, or for greater mystery 10) different audience members shuffle that brand new deck. Ask one of them to drop that shuffled deck straight to the floor (back side up). For better effect have a stripper (the female kind) do a little dance in the background. Then ask another audience member to name any card that comes to mind. Slowly get onto your knees and grap one (and only one) card out of the pile on the floor. Slowly turn it around. If it matches the selection you have a miracle that will make the audience believe.
As fairnis in magic advertising demands please note the following: There is a slight chance that the audience member names another card than the one you reveal, in fact there are 51 other possibilities. Please do not let this bother you, once a while the trick will work and then you will be on top.
There are no magnets, threads or even electronics involved, you even have to supply the ungimmicked deck of playing cards yourself (we could not possibly supply that for the incredibly low price!)
We are going to send you this miracle postpaid for not $200, not $190, not $180, not even $170, but 4 easy payments of $42.49. If you order before the actual release date we will send you twice the instructions needed..........
Any takers???? ;)

[Dave Egleston]

Wolfgang - Leave the comedy to the experts

Dave

[Bob L]

Not satisfied with simple three-card or ten-card locations, I've been working on a 52 card location for large venues.

You pass a deck through the audience and have people each choose one card and remain standing. Then, they sit down one by one as you incredibly call out the card they chose. It's an amazing effect that builds to a powerful climax as you name card after card and the number of standing audience members dwindles down to the last one.

The kicker comes with the last man standing. You unexpectedly produce another deck of cards and actually pull a card matching theirs from an unprepared deck.

Both decks and all the audience members may be inspected after the effect.

Packs small, plays big.

[AMCabral]

Now, that to me obviously requires a memorized deck (wherein you've tediously memorized the identity of all 52 cards), plus you have to carry two decks around, and have the second deck in a predisposed condition. Producing the deck obviously implies that one is wearing a jacket, or worse, pants, which I abhor.

Now, if you can duplicate the effect to eliminate the second deck and make it completely impromptu, requiring no set-up, no practice, no deck, no spectators, no kidding, and I could perform it in a bourbon-induced coma....

Now you're talking.

-Tony

[Terry]

pchosse - Special user - Boston - 837 Posts
Posted: Jan 16, 2004 10:01am
Just to let you all know - While you are busily arguing the right and wrong of all of this, the responsible party, Nagler, thinks this is a big joke! Don't believe me? Visit the Genii Forum where Nagler started a thread called "Laugh out loud funny - Magic Caf forum fight". So, he thinks you are all a joke, suckers, and he's happy to say so on another forum. How do you like that?

We have the 'celebrity mole'. :D :D

[Guest]

Outing Dr. Hole

[Jeff Pierce Magic]

"Posted: Jan 16, 2004 9:36am on the Magic Cafe from pchosse

Well, Someone suggested I read this thread. I have. How embarassing..."

This is aimed at those involved in the rukus on the Cafe. Once again Paul is the voice of reason. What a shame that some of you act like children, then again, I'm not surprised.

Jeff

[Guest]

Start and page 1 and work your way through all 5 pages of the post. By the end of page 3, you'll be laughing out loud. By the end of page 4, you'll be crying! I'm getting 95% rolling-on-the-floor feedback. Almost everyone wants to see the exchange published in Genii or Magic. Many, many thanks to messiuers Farmer, Field and Haydn. If you are offended by the post, I sincerely hope you are even more offended by my new website.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... rum=109&66

Bill Nagler - www.25offmagic.com

[Alain Roy]

95% rolling on the floor? Wow! I'm impresed.

I chuckled a couple of times and yawned several times, so count me in the other five percent. (Or do I change the balance now, and it's six percent?)

-alain

[Richard Kaufman]

After all the foofaw about this, I went and read the thread on The Magic Cafe. Given how many complaints I've heard about editing by the moderators over there, it's hard to imagine that the thread has run as long as it has--I certainly would've curtailed it much sooner.
The trick in question is many decades old and has been done by many others. That is simple and clear. The trick requires expert use of estimation. I don't think we can expect the seller of the trick to broadcast that fact in his ads. (I'm not defending the trick, mind you, just that one can't expect the method to be divulged in the advertising.) On the other hand, of course, if someone is not adept at estimation (and some people find it easy to learn, others impossibly difficult) then that person will be unhappy with his purchase.
Others will be unhappy because the trick, even when done by an expert on estimation, won't work 100% of the time and this is not mentioned in the ad.
So, there are definitely reasons for buyers of the trick to be dissatisfied.
However, the thread on the Magic Cafe was unpleasant because it required someone whose first language is not English to defend himself, and then he was picked-on because his English was poor. I fault the moderators at The Magic Cafe for this. (We have our own faults here as well.)
The thread on the Magic Cafe simply makes clear yet again what an uncontrollable thing the Internet has become. ANY product is now subject to instant criticism by people who can be qualified or totally unqualified to offer it. The creator feels a great urge to defend himself, but this inevitably, it seems, leads to a free-for-all. It's very difficult to moderate threads of this type in a way that's fair to both the creator and consumer.
We're all still learning how to behave on this still-new thing called the Internet. Please remember that. We make mistakes, we edit our posts, but we keep going because we are interested in maintaining our little community.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
However, the thread on the Magic Cafe was unpleasant because it required someone whose first language is not English to defend himself, and then he was picked-on because his English was poor.

I couldn't agree more. I found that aspect quite distasteful.

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I fault the moderators at The Magic Cafe for this.

I couldn't disagree more. That's like blaming the police because someone's mugged me.

The moderators on The Magic Caf have a huge number of posts on a huge number of boards to police - they cannot be blamed for every crime that's committed on their manor. (A bit of UK police terminology for you there.)

Criminals commit crimes; police try to prevent them. People write nasty posts; moderators try to stop them.

Dave

[Richard Kaufman]

Sorry to disagree, Dave, but you're wrong. It IS up to the moderators to police everything. If the moderators are not responsible, then who is?
If the board has grown too big for the moderators to properly police, then the size of the board should be reduced.

[mark]

Were this some obscure post in the midst of an innocuous thread I might be inclined to agree. With the finger pointing, and ridiculing threads begun on ANOTHER forum by one of the instigators of the pile-on, there is little doubt that the moderators are aware of this travesty. I only know what I have read about this effect and its advertisement, but the creator is being treated very unfairly. I back Richard on this one - not that he needs it. The moderators should have caught this one long ago and stopped the mugging.

[Guest]

Originally posted by boblinds:
Not satisfied with simple three-card or ten-card locations, I've been working on a 52 card location for large venues...

Great effect! May I add one suggestion? Have each person who took a card remain seated. As each card is announced, the spectator who chose it RISES. After a series of 51 'hits' in a row, on number 52 the entire audience will rise as one with a standing ovation! A never fail standing O! Double the asking price, that's my advice! --Asrah ;)

[Terry]

What a shame that some of you act like children, then again, I'm not surprised.

Jeff, it is not acting like children to have a good laugh at the self agrandized "experts" who post on the cafe. The "cafe" is becoming as useless as alt.tragic has.

When these unknown myopic twits think they are in the same league as Farmer, Field and Haydn, you can't help but laugh.

[Robert Allen]

I've seen the same trend in several different areas of endeavor, in this cast magic and model making. In both cases I see the Pros telling the noobies to, basically, stop talking about It and just go do It, and learn by doing. The Magic Cafe particularly suffers from this. However, baiting boobs is poor sport (I know, I did it for years before mostly swearing it off,a nd people still do it to me). It's like that old joke when a traveling salesman sees a farmer holding a pig up so the pig can eat the apples on a tree. The salesman says to the farmer "Isn't that sort of a waste of time?" And the farmer responds "yeah, but what's time to a durned hog?"

As an ex master-baiter I, as the Russian Judge, would only give the baiting over at the Cafe about a 6. Funny, but not uproariously funny. (what do I know though, I found Billy McComb on the Stevens Egg Bag video to not only be un-funny, but also downright offensive. Tom Mullica was a riot though.)

Regarding the original topic: I think the biggest problem I see here (well, aside from the whiners at the Cafe who won't even invest an evening in learning the basics of estimation) is that the trick is $35 for a nearly ungimmicked deck of cards and some instructions. Heck, few top flight magicians charge that much for lecture notes, and for the price of lecture notes you get several good effects.

Judge Robert Woppner rules for the people who said It Wasn't All That Funny, as well as for the people who said That's too much for such a crummy trick. But then I was traumatized by ripoff EZ Magic tricks and such as a kid, so maybe I'm biased.

[Pete McCabe]

Although several people at the Magic Cafe did not do themselves proud in this thread, and irrespective of the usability of the trick, the bottom line is that what you got was sensationally overpriced at $35. This will always produce profoundly negative feedback in some way or another.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Terry Terrell:
[b]pchosse - Special user - Boston - 837 Posts
Posted: Jan 16, 2004 10:01am
Just to let you all know - While you are busily arguing the right and wrong of all of this, the responsible party, Nagler, thinks this is a big joke! Don't believe me? Visit the Genii Forum where Nagler started a thread called "Laugh out loud funny - Magic Caf forum fight". So, he thinks you are all a joke, suckers, and he's happy to say so on another forum. How do you like that?

We have the 'celebrity mole'. :D :D [/b]

I'm not sure you are referring to me, but if you are could you clarify? I don't know what you mean by "celebrity mole". Thanks, PSC

[Guest]

Originally posted by Terry Terrell:
When these unknown myopic twits think they are in the same league as Farmer, Field and Haydn, you can't help but laugh.

Yikes! I had no idea my myopia was a matter of public record - how did you find out?

As to leagues, I've never heard the aforementioned "Farmer, Field, or Haydn" purport to be in a "league", of thier own or otherwise. And I've either spoken or corresponded with each of them at least once. But, if you insist on putting them in one, (a league, that is...), and then pointing out that they are, so that we all recognize how different they are from us, then polarize away, Terry!

Best, PSC

[Adam Brooks]

pchosse - Special user - Boston - 837 Posts
Posted: Jan 16, 2004 10:01am
Just to let you all know - While you are busily arguing the right and wrong of all of this, the responsible party, Nagler, thinks this is a big joke! Don't believe me? Visit the Genii Forum where Nagler started a thread called "Laugh out loud funny - Magic Caf forum fight". So, he thinks you are all a joke, suckers, and he's happy to say so on another forum. How do you like that?

We have the 'celebrity mole'.
I'm not sure you are referring to me, but if you are could you clarify? I don't know what you mean by "celebrity mole". Thanks, PSC

For those who don't know, the 'celebrity mole' is a reference to a reality TV show. The idea was that everyone on the show would be competing via physical games and intellectual challenges for money and prizes. At the same time, one unknown player, "the mole", would be deliberately and discreetly screwing things up for everyone else. The big goal is to figure out who is the Mole.

They tried it once with regular people (I loved it), but apparently it didn't fly, so nowadays they do it with washed-up celebrities. Hence, "Celebrity Mole."

Ah, pop culture references on the Genii board... as Rock would say... Onward...

[Guest]

The thread in question has been moved offline at the Cafe for further review. I thank this forum for alerting us to the problems with it.

Dave, Richard and Mark: you're right. We should have caught this far earlier. What's very interesting is that in many cases, other Cafe members will call our attention to threads that appear to be getting out of hand. To me, at least, this confirms the sense of community that we've tried to build at the Cafe.

I do agree that bad effects are subject to (and deserving of) bad reviews. But it seems that some people take far too much glee in piling on the remarks. Richard is absolutely correct that these people picked on Haim Goldenberg, since English is not his first language.

And to see these others laugh about the discomfort they have caused, and to brag about it on other forums, gives me significant pause. We are supposed to be grownups; we are supposed to be mature. Paul, Jeff, and Dave...I thank you for your comments; they echo my thoughts precisely.

Those of you who know me, or perhaps know of me, know that I took members on this forum to task last year for excessive flaming, and asked people to be more civil toward one another. I take no pride in the fact that the same thing has happened on the Cafe, where I am a staffer. The thread wasn't deliberately left up, Lord knows, and we're bound to fail again in the future. We're human.

But part of being human(e) is the ability to show compassion and understanding for others, even when we may not totally agree with them.

[Steve V]

Further review? Interesting. What is this review procedural and is it done by individuals or committee? Do you have a field that can be clicked upon by those that do not consider English as their first language? I'm just wondering how it all works.
Steve V