I totally agree with supporting Brick and Mortar shops, but lately it seems as though some of the suppliers aren't.
We have a wonderful shop in Toronto (2 actually) and are quite fortunate.
However, lately some books that have been available in the past from the publishers, now aren't. I want to buy the new Cardini book (Miracle Factory), for example. I would like to support my shops by buying the books from them but that apparently isn't an option anymore. If people are going to say "support brick and mortar shops" than they should supply their books etc. to these shops. Then we CAN support them.
Please remember the support has to come from not only the buyers of magic, but the authors, suppliers and distributors too.
Peace out!
Brick and Mortar Shops
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Jim Maloney_dup1
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
It's rare that the publishers are responsible for what's actually in stock in a brick & mortar store -- that's up to the store manager and what he orders from them. If there's something you want, talk to the guys behind the counter. Knowing that there is demand for certain items will make them more inclined to order those items. They're not going to order things if they're just going to sit on the shelves collecting dust.
-Jim
-Jim
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
I work at a brick and mortar, and while we will place special orders, there are dealers and publishers who prefer to maintain exclusivity by distributing only to certain stores or through particular websites.
Nope, I can't get you everything. On the other hand, the internet stores can't provide a safe and knowledgable audience to try whatever you're working on. They can't make suggestions on improving delivery, or let you know when you're flashing.
Also, I've never had an internet site suggest that something I was about to buy wasn't a good fit for me, and suggest something else.
Most important, I've never met someone at an internet site and started sessioning.
Nope, I can't get you everything. On the other hand, the internet stores can't provide a safe and knowledgable audience to try whatever you're working on. They can't make suggestions on improving delivery, or let you know when you're flashing.
Also, I've never had an internet site suggest that something I was about to buy wasn't a good fit for me, and suggest something else.
Most important, I've never met someone at an internet site and started sessioning.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Thanks for the replies, guys.
I HAVE talked to the people behind the counters (I have been doing magic a long time) and they are as miffed as I am about some of these things.
For example, Miracle Factory no longer sells their books through either of my two local magic stores (I have every one.... except Annals...... all which I bought at my locals).
Now I want to buy the Cardini book at my local, but that is no longer an option.
John Carney, too, no longer sells through shops. There are more I could mention, but those are the last two I tried to buy through the 'brick and mortar' shops and was told "They no longer support the brick and mortar shops".
I understand economics, but when these people are saying to step up and take a stand for these shop owners, they should do the same.
That's all I'm saying.
I HAVE talked to the people behind the counters (I have been doing magic a long time) and they are as miffed as I am about some of these things.
For example, Miracle Factory no longer sells their books through either of my two local magic stores (I have every one.... except Annals...... all which I bought at my locals).
Now I want to buy the Cardini book at my local, but that is no longer an option.
John Carney, too, no longer sells through shops. There are more I could mention, but those are the last two I tried to buy through the 'brick and mortar' shops and was told "They no longer support the brick and mortar shops".
I understand economics, but when these people are saying to step up and take a stand for these shop owners, they should do the same.
That's all I'm saying.
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Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27066
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
It really doesn't have anything to do with not supporting brick and mortar shops, but (frankly) making some decent money on a book that's taken hundreds of hours (and sometimes years) of work.
Now, while I don't do this myself with Kaufman and Company books, some publishers feel they need to make more than 40 to 60% off the retail price in order to justify all the work that goes into making a book. (I prefer to make it up in volume.)
Books are not like DVDs--you don't knock them out in a few days. A 3 DVD set can take, tops, a week to produce. A book takes at least six months to write, more time and money for photos and illustrations (do you have any idea how long it takes, and what a tedious job it is, to take 1000 photographs for a book?)
Some folks who produce books just don't want to work at 60% off retail (which is what a jobber gives you for buying books in quantity). Dealing with individual stores is difficult because of the amount of work involved--shipping small quantities to hundreds of venues, then billing them, etc. A huge amount of work, so your only option is really to deal with jobbers at 60% off retail.
Then there's the discounting--this drives some guys nuts. Not customers, mind you, but publishers. Customers love discounts and sales.
As a publisher, selling a small portion of your books at retail is vital to turning a profit on every project. And the publisher generally doesn't want to discount his own books. So, what happens is that, because of the huge amount of discounting which now goes on, unless you offer a discount on your books you're just not going to sell any because customers will buy them from others who do offer a discount. This is why I offer pre-publication discounts on my books, both reprinted and new--I don't want to do it, but it is a necessity in today's marketplace.
This is the current state of affairs that has led some publishers to sell their own books exclusively through retail. No need to compete with all the other people discounting your own product. To complain that "they are not supporting brick & mortar shops" is to misunderstand the situation.
A publisher who sells retail only is taking a chance. For those who've tried it, like John Carney, Todd Karr, Jim Steinmeyer, and Harry Lorayne (and Genii--we've sold both The Vernon Touch and The Lost Notebooks of John Northern Hilliard via retail only), you sell fewer books but you make more money.
I don't do this with my Kaufman and Company books because I have a great working relationship with Murphy's Magic--a relationship that has allowed me to reprint many of my older books and keep them available in the marketplace. Without Murphy's, the great majority of my books would be out of print. In addition, because I'm a populist, and I come from an older tradition of magic publishing, I prefer to make my books available to as many people as possible. I want customers to be able to look through them in the magic shop.
So there you are.
Now, while I don't do this myself with Kaufman and Company books, some publishers feel they need to make more than 40 to 60% off the retail price in order to justify all the work that goes into making a book. (I prefer to make it up in volume.)
Books are not like DVDs--you don't knock them out in a few days. A 3 DVD set can take, tops, a week to produce. A book takes at least six months to write, more time and money for photos and illustrations (do you have any idea how long it takes, and what a tedious job it is, to take 1000 photographs for a book?)
Some folks who produce books just don't want to work at 60% off retail (which is what a jobber gives you for buying books in quantity). Dealing with individual stores is difficult because of the amount of work involved--shipping small quantities to hundreds of venues, then billing them, etc. A huge amount of work, so your only option is really to deal with jobbers at 60% off retail.
Then there's the discounting--this drives some guys nuts. Not customers, mind you, but publishers. Customers love discounts and sales.
As a publisher, selling a small portion of your books at retail is vital to turning a profit on every project. And the publisher generally doesn't want to discount his own books. So, what happens is that, because of the huge amount of discounting which now goes on, unless you offer a discount on your books you're just not going to sell any because customers will buy them from others who do offer a discount. This is why I offer pre-publication discounts on my books, both reprinted and new--I don't want to do it, but it is a necessity in today's marketplace.
This is the current state of affairs that has led some publishers to sell their own books exclusively through retail. No need to compete with all the other people discounting your own product. To complain that "they are not supporting brick & mortar shops" is to misunderstand the situation.
A publisher who sells retail only is taking a chance. For those who've tried it, like John Carney, Todd Karr, Jim Steinmeyer, and Harry Lorayne (and Genii--we've sold both The Vernon Touch and The Lost Notebooks of John Northern Hilliard via retail only), you sell fewer books but you make more money.
I don't do this with my Kaufman and Company books because I have a great working relationship with Murphy's Magic--a relationship that has allowed me to reprint many of my older books and keep them available in the marketplace. Without Murphy's, the great majority of my books would be out of print. In addition, because I'm a populist, and I come from an older tradition of magic publishing, I prefer to make my books available to as many people as possible. I want customers to be able to look through them in the magic shop.
So there you are.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Richards perspective is valuable for obvious reasons: hes been in the game for a long time and has seen the (r)evolution of book publishing over the past couple of decades.
Here are my two bits as a truly itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny publisher: its all about the money. In my case, the decision to sell my book direct was made so I could break even after having printed nearly the entire book twice due to my mistake (not the printers). I did wholesale with a very short discount a limited number of copies to a couple of dealers with whom I have a good relationship, but the rest were sold direct.
The other reason for selling direct was to exercise a bit of control over speculative purchases. As weve seen in the past, some folks have purchased several copies of a limited run book, with the intent of cashing in after the book goes out of print. Since the edition of my book was limited to 200 copies, I wanted to make sure (as much as possible at least) that those individuals who wanted a copy, got a copy. My book went out of print fairly rapidly due to the limited print run, but at least most folks had a pretty fair chance of buying a copy if they really wanted one.
I share Magic Mikes lament and concern, but in the final analysis, if the practice of selling direct means the difference between a publishers survival and going out of business, Im in favor of survival, with regrets that it may have adverse consequences for local magic shops.
Here are my two bits as a truly itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny publisher: its all about the money. In my case, the decision to sell my book direct was made so I could break even after having printed nearly the entire book twice due to my mistake (not the printers). I did wholesale with a very short discount a limited number of copies to a couple of dealers with whom I have a good relationship, but the rest were sold direct.
The other reason for selling direct was to exercise a bit of control over speculative purchases. As weve seen in the past, some folks have purchased several copies of a limited run book, with the intent of cashing in after the book goes out of print. Since the edition of my book was limited to 200 copies, I wanted to make sure (as much as possible at least) that those individuals who wanted a copy, got a copy. My book went out of print fairly rapidly due to the limited print run, but at least most folks had a pretty fair chance of buying a copy if they really wanted one.
I share Magic Mikes lament and concern, but in the final analysis, if the practice of selling direct means the difference between a publishers survival and going out of business, Im in favor of survival, with regrets that it may have adverse consequences for local magic shops.
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Larry Barnowsky
- Posts: 508
- Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Cooperstown, NY
- Contact:
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
I agree with Richard's post. I recently published a new hardcover book and DVD. The book alone took 16 months of writing, editing, proofing, photography, layout, dust jacket art, cloth cover imprint art, advertising art etc. The DVD took a fraction of that time. I sell direct to the customer and to a few dealers. I don't sell it to a wholesale distributor because then the book goes thorugh two markups. With a first printing run of say 500 books the wholesaler may buy them at 40% of retail and sell them to dealers at 60% of retail. The 40% of retail is close to the total cost per hardcover book for a short run. With larger volumes you can be profitable because of lower cost per unit. One advantage of selling direct to the customer is valuable feedback you often obtain about your product.
Magica Analytica
barnowskymagic.com
barnowskymagic.com
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Perhaps this does not fall into the discussion because it is not about books.
While traveling, I always looked for a magic shop in the area I was in. I would stop in look around eventually someone would ask if they could help me. A conversation would begin and I would walk out with my purchases. This was the way it used to be.
Lately, I find it to be very different in brick & mortar shop. This same thing happened to me in different shops. While visiting Key West Florida, I entered a shop. The counter person was reading a newspaper & never looked up. I browsed but was never greeted or asked if I needed help. While browsing, I noticed a revolving display in one of the display counters. The clerk had his newspaper spread over the top. I asked him to please move the paper so that I could see the selections and was told that he was on break and would move the paper after he finished lunch. I walked out the door & of course purchased nothing.
Another dealer at a magic convention sold me an item that was readily available at any dealer. Upon arriving home I discovered that he charged me almost twice the list price on the item. I called & told him that I was disturbed by what had happened and wanted an adjustment in price. His answer was that he was aware of it but he payed too much for the item when he bought it & therefore the price to me would stand.
While visiting PA, I walked into a magic shop right off South Street. The owner (I presume) was teaching someone how to do nickels to dimes. Again no greeting, no "I'll be with you soon", I was totally ignored and after 20 minutes I walked out without purchasing anything.
I think that one of the reasons brick & mortar shops are going away is because they do not know how to make someone feel welcome in their shops. The three shops mentioned were so anti business, that I was totally turned off and will never go back. I have had better treatment while placing an order over the phone or sometimes over the internet.
While book stores, hardware shops etc. have the big stores and internet stores that they cannot compete with on price, many still survive on service, customer treatment, advise & expertise. Some magic shops have done just that, but most are their own worst enemy. They have no clue as to how to run a business & make their customers want to come back.
I would like to patronize the brick & mortar shops but do not because of the above reasons.
While traveling, I always looked for a magic shop in the area I was in. I would stop in look around eventually someone would ask if they could help me. A conversation would begin and I would walk out with my purchases. This was the way it used to be.
Lately, I find it to be very different in brick & mortar shop. This same thing happened to me in different shops. While visiting Key West Florida, I entered a shop. The counter person was reading a newspaper & never looked up. I browsed but was never greeted or asked if I needed help. While browsing, I noticed a revolving display in one of the display counters. The clerk had his newspaper spread over the top. I asked him to please move the paper so that I could see the selections and was told that he was on break and would move the paper after he finished lunch. I walked out the door & of course purchased nothing.
Another dealer at a magic convention sold me an item that was readily available at any dealer. Upon arriving home I discovered that he charged me almost twice the list price on the item. I called & told him that I was disturbed by what had happened and wanted an adjustment in price. His answer was that he was aware of it but he payed too much for the item when he bought it & therefore the price to me would stand.
While visiting PA, I walked into a magic shop right off South Street. The owner (I presume) was teaching someone how to do nickels to dimes. Again no greeting, no "I'll be with you soon", I was totally ignored and after 20 minutes I walked out without purchasing anything.
I think that one of the reasons brick & mortar shops are going away is because they do not know how to make someone feel welcome in their shops. The three shops mentioned were so anti business, that I was totally turned off and will never go back. I have had better treatment while placing an order over the phone or sometimes over the internet.
While book stores, hardware shops etc. have the big stores and internet stores that they cannot compete with on price, many still survive on service, customer treatment, advise & expertise. Some magic shops have done just that, but most are their own worst enemy. They have no clue as to how to run a business & make their customers want to come back.
I would like to patronize the brick & mortar shops but do not because of the above reasons.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
I have been in brick and mortars like you describe. There is one in Southern California that I will not return to because having walked in with a list of what I wanted and money to make my purchases, I didn't get a "can I help you?" until I was walking out the door 45 minutes later. I had tried to get the clerk's attention, but he was busy working on a sleight with a friend across the counter, and everytime I approached, they physically moved to shut me out.
I have only been in the Magic Apple in Studio City a couple of times and was immediately greeted and offered help.
I work at Best Magic in Anaheim. We are quick to offer assistance.
It's not just an issue with magic stores. I've had the same treatment in other kinds of stores lately. Customer service seems to be becoming a virtue that is withering with the passage of time.
I will invite you when you come to Southern California to come to either of the shops above, or go to Ken Sands in Westminster. You will have a great time at any of those places.
I have only been in the Magic Apple in Studio City a couple of times and was immediately greeted and offered help.
I work at Best Magic in Anaheim. We are quick to offer assistance.
It's not just an issue with magic stores. I've had the same treatment in other kinds of stores lately. Customer service seems to be becoming a virtue that is withering with the passage of time.
I will invite you when you come to Southern California to come to either of the shops above, or go to Ken Sands in Westminster. You will have a great time at any of those places.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
I did not want to seem sour on all B&M shops. I have a friend in Arizona that has a local shop. They provide a room with cookies and beverages all day every day. This is so the local magicians can hang out together. While his prices are not always as low as on the internet, the magicians buy from him & pay the higher price. He supports them & they support him.
When it is a big ticket item with a real difference in price, they simple show him the price & while it is not fully matched, they work out a price they can both live with.
I know that in this day & age, service is not always there. However, without it they are doomed to fail. It costs nothing to greet people when they enter your shop & make them feel like you are glad they are there.
When it is a big ticket item with a real difference in price, they simple show him the price & while it is not fully matched, they work out a price they can both live with.
I know that in this day & age, service is not always there. However, without it they are doomed to fail. It costs nothing to greet people when they enter your shop & make them feel like you are glad they are there.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Where in Arizona? I have a trip to Tempe coming up before too long and would love to visit.
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
I like being able to walk into a B&M to look through a book prior to purchase, but I don't begrudge anyone who makes the choice to sell direct.
I bought 'Secrets' from John Carney sight unseen. Why? Because he rarely produces books/DVD and when he has, it has been worth more than I paid. He deserves to profit from his hard work and not have it discounted to one guy who then proceeds to make copies for his buddies.
B&M's are not going under due to 1 or 2 direct sell vendors - they are facing high rents/expenses, internet discount sellers and outright theft of products.
There are alot of consumers with the Wal-Mart mentality who look for cheap knockoff prices. These knockoffs are causing creators/writers to not produce and the honest consumers will be the one's to pay.
I bought 'Secrets' from John Carney sight unseen. Why? Because he rarely produces books/DVD and when he has, it has been worth more than I paid. He deserves to profit from his hard work and not have it discounted to one guy who then proceeds to make copies for his buddies.
B&M's are not going under due to 1 or 2 direct sell vendors - they are facing high rents/expenses, internet discount sellers and outright theft of products.
There are alot of consumers with the Wal-Mart mentality who look for cheap knockoff prices. These knockoffs are causing creators/writers to not produce and the honest consumers will be the one's to pay.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
MGM: Unfortunately "customer service" and "Key West" have become mutually exclusive terms.
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Perhaps not entirely in keeping with this thread, but I'd like to put out a small boost for a dealer that really does try to do things right: Joe Pon at Misdirections Magic on 9th in San Francisco, maybe 100 yards from Golden Gate Park.
He almost always has everything as soon as it's out. He loves chatting about "the old days" (for us, the '70s & 80s)...and I have seen him on many occasions steer customers--young OR experienced--away from certain items, and recommend this or that which might better suit the person.
And you truly never know who might be standing there when you walk in--once I was in a hurry and hoofed it in to get a Genii.
By the door I glimpsed an ad saying Steve Cohen's "Chamber Magic" was in town briefly. I grab one (thinking how great it would be to see that show), look up, and there's Steve Cohen. Ay carumba! I instantly became a jibbering idiot, but he was pure class and didn't make fun of me one bit.
Viva Misdirections Magic Shop, San Francisco :)
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Perhaps not entirely in keeping with this thread, but I'd like to put out a small boost for a dealer that really does try to do things right: Joe Pon at Misdirections Magic on 9th in San Francisco, maybe 100 yards from Golden Gate Park.
He almost always has everything as soon as it's out. He loves chatting about "the old days" (for us, the '70s & 80s)...and I have seen him on many occasions steer customers--young OR experienced--away from certain items, and recommend this or that which might better suit the person.
And you truly never know who might be standing there when you walk in--once I was in a hurry and hoofed it in to get a Genii.
By the door I glimpsed an ad saying Steve Cohen's "Chamber Magic" was in town briefly. I grab one (thinking how great it would be to see that show), look up, and there's Steve Cohen. Ay carumba! I instantly became a jibbering idiot, but he was pure class and didn't make fun of me one bit.
Viva Misdirections Magic Shop, San Francisco :)
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
I visited Daytona Magic last year. When I was driving thru jacksonville, i called and asked what time they close, and could I make it there by closing.
They gave me directions, and said if you are definitely coming to the shop, we will stay open for you.
They did, and were wonderful. patient, good demos, great war stories, and I left with $200.00 less than i walked in with.
It was agreat experience, go visit them.
They gave me directions, and said if you are definitely coming to the shop, we will stay open for you.
They did, and were wonderful. patient, good demos, great war stories, and I left with $200.00 less than i walked in with.
It was agreat experience, go visit them.
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Mark Ratekin
- Posts: 57
- Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Harry Anderson
- Location: Carmel, Indiana
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
My "day job" is consulting with companies on the value of customer loyalty and how to engender a customer-focused culture in companies, so I'm all too familiar with the sometimes sad state of customer service in a retail setting.
I, too, like to visit local shops when I travel - I'd like to say this is primarily to support the B&M stores, but the truth is it's unfortunately a rare treat to hang out and talk magic in a shop these days, so I feel I get as much - if not more - than the shop does when they spend some time shooting the breeze with me. Among the best I've discovered include (in no particular order) Barry Schor's Presto Magic Studio in Phoenix, Midwest Magic in Chicago, FAB in Colon, Joe Pon's Misdirections in San Francisco and (of course) Stoner's Fun Stores in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. Unfortunately, for every great store, there are multiple stores that miss the mark entirely.
As mentioned earlier, the great stores know how to make you feel welcome, aren't afraid to spend some time getting to know you (and your interests), and don't hesitate to steer you away from something that they don't think will fit you. My wife hates it when I find one of these stores - the bank account is bound to take a hit, and if she's with me, she knows it's going to be a long afternoon....
Building this rapport can have a long-term payoff, too. Often when I'm looking for a specific book or effect, I'll email these shops to see if they have it in stock.
Of course, that's not to say I don't buy on price and/or convenience (I'm not traveling as much as I once did) with some of the online players as well. So, it's not a black-and-white issue, but I prefer to visit a shop when possible.
Take care -
Mark
I, too, like to visit local shops when I travel - I'd like to say this is primarily to support the B&M stores, but the truth is it's unfortunately a rare treat to hang out and talk magic in a shop these days, so I feel I get as much - if not more - than the shop does when they spend some time shooting the breeze with me. Among the best I've discovered include (in no particular order) Barry Schor's Presto Magic Studio in Phoenix, Midwest Magic in Chicago, FAB in Colon, Joe Pon's Misdirections in San Francisco and (of course) Stoner's Fun Stores in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. Unfortunately, for every great store, there are multiple stores that miss the mark entirely.
As mentioned earlier, the great stores know how to make you feel welcome, aren't afraid to spend some time getting to know you (and your interests), and don't hesitate to steer you away from something that they don't think will fit you. My wife hates it when I find one of these stores - the bank account is bound to take a hit, and if she's with me, she knows it's going to be a long afternoon....
Building this rapport can have a long-term payoff, too. Often when I'm looking for a specific book or effect, I'll email these shops to see if they have it in stock.
Of course, that's not to say I don't buy on price and/or convenience (I'm not traveling as much as I once did) with some of the online players as well. So, it's not a black-and-white issue, but I prefer to visit a shop when possible.
Take care -
Mark
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Naphtalia,
The name of the magic shop is Williams Magic & Novelties. I have not been there myself, but always here good things about them from my friend.
I was once having trouble finding an item that no longer exists. My friend asked them about it. A few day later, my friend sent it to me. It was a simple electrical switch. They made one up & gave it to my friend to send to me at no charge.
I wish They were local to me. this is the type of dealer that will be in business a long time.
The name of the magic shop is Williams Magic & Novelties. I have not been there myself, but always here good things about them from my friend.
I was once having trouble finding an item that no longer exists. My friend asked them about it. A few day later, my friend sent it to me. It was a simple electrical switch. They made one up & gave it to my friend to send to me at no charge.
I wish They were local to me. this is the type of dealer that will be in business a long time.
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Their current location has the look of an "old time" magic shop.I visited Daytona Magic last year. When I was driving thru jacksonville, i called and asked what time they close, and could I make it there by closing...They did, and were wonderful. patient, good demos, great war stories, and I left with $200.00 less than i walked in with.
You were lucky. Usually they are so busy during regular hours to even take a breath.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Unfortunately this is not something peculiar to B&M magic stores. There is an epidemic of this kind of apathy in the retail market place. It's hard to fault people who prefer e-commerce on both the vendor and customer side.
Don't get me wrong, I like to give my custom to the B&M shops in my traveling and at home. But if some are wondering what happened to their business traffic they need look no further than the closest mirror.
Don't get me wrong, I like to give my custom to the B&M shops in my traveling and at home. But if some are wondering what happened to their business traffic they need look no further than the closest mirror.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
It really saddens me to see Brick and Mortar Shops disappearing. They were the heart of what got so many of us into magic.
There is also another side to it. Many years ago I owned a chain of retail stores I started while working on my MBA. Years later I sold them. It was the right decision although it was very hard to do. They were not magic shops. They were import stores.
Retailing has severely changed. Customers and their needs have changed and certainly the store employees. Self-service is the rule now. That is very inappropriate for a magic shop. Good help made good magic shops. They were a whole lot more than cashiers. They were much better qualified but frankly handled few transactions.
There is also the other reality. Inventory is an expensive investment. The turnover in retail magic shops is too low to allow much variety. Therefore inventories suffer. On-line shops serve a large clientele and can have both deeper (more units in stock) and broader (more varieties in stock) inventories.
In-store retailers only have one or two of most things and rarely buy 6-12 of an item to get the better prices. Thus, their costs are higher. They have to charge more and/or make less on the investment than a non-store retailer. Its tough.
They sell more than boxes and parts but have to compete with those who only sell boxes and parts.
I still support the shops when I can. There is not one here. But that is just good business too. I really miss the help magic shop people gave in the past. I learned a lot from them and they encouraged me in learning magic.
Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
There is also another side to it. Many years ago I owned a chain of retail stores I started while working on my MBA. Years later I sold them. It was the right decision although it was very hard to do. They were not magic shops. They were import stores.
Retailing has severely changed. Customers and their needs have changed and certainly the store employees. Self-service is the rule now. That is very inappropriate for a magic shop. Good help made good magic shops. They were a whole lot more than cashiers. They were much better qualified but frankly handled few transactions.
There is also the other reality. Inventory is an expensive investment. The turnover in retail magic shops is too low to allow much variety. Therefore inventories suffer. On-line shops serve a large clientele and can have both deeper (more units in stock) and broader (more varieties in stock) inventories.
In-store retailers only have one or two of most things and rarely buy 6-12 of an item to get the better prices. Thus, their costs are higher. They have to charge more and/or make less on the investment than a non-store retailer. Its tough.
They sell more than boxes and parts but have to compete with those who only sell boxes and parts.
I still support the shops when I can. There is not one here. But that is just good business too. I really miss the help magic shop people gave in the past. I learned a lot from them and they encouraged me in learning magic.
Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
A young man and his parents came in the other day to the shop in Anaheim. They're from a small town in Arizona, and don't have a brick and mortar near them. Thanks to this thread, I was able to bring up Williams shop. Yes, they had heard of it, and it was that shop where the young man still buys most of his magic. Trouble is, it's a two hour drive. However, he still manages to get there with his parents at least once before Christmas and once before his birthday.
They confirm that Williams is "the very best place for anyone who wants to learn magic and wants to feel like they're important."
Was so happy to find a teen who understood that there was something to be found in a brick and mortar that he couldn't get on-line. He and his folks spent a couple of hours in our shop. Just wanted to pass on the good comments. Please pass along to the proprietors at Williams.
They confirm that Williams is "the very best place for anyone who wants to learn magic and wants to feel like they're important."
Was so happy to find a teen who understood that there was something to be found in a brick and mortar that he couldn't get on-line. He and his folks spent a couple of hours in our shop. Just wanted to pass on the good comments. Please pass along to the proprietors at Williams.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Magic stores are cool...no matter where they are, well,most of them are cool
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
While we do not carry new magic books (yet), we do occasionally buy university or small press books for groups of our clients, generally in the history of the book or military history areas.
We would be floored to get 60% off. We generally get 20%, pay in advance, and have the customer commitments in hand. Since we order several copies, we generally can absorb the cost of shipping, so we generally make 15% such a transaction. We also generally buy 1 extra copy for the shelf. Over time we gained the reputation of having or at least knowing of unusual and uncommon books, much to our satisfaction.
Now, some of these book are limited run (generally 500-1000 copies) either because of deliberate collectibility efforts or, more often, because the topic is so esoteric (History of the Book in Canada vols 1 & 2, anyone?) that only a small group of libraries and scholars are likely to buy them.
Our environment is different than a magic shop, without a doubt. However, we have slowly developed a clientele who like for us to purchase items for them, and for small added services we do (reject damaged copies, put on dust jacket protectors, suggest better books on a given topic, let them know when a new book in their interest is available) so they don't have to do it themselves. I imagine (and it sounds like) the better magic shops do the same, and more. Our customers like our books and prices, and they like to support us as directly and often as they can. We are lucky, but greatly indebted to those presses and authors that keep turning out these damnably interesting books.
Magic publishing is more unique than traditional publishing I think (and I am most familiar with those who publish magic history). I am quite interested in it, and thank the original poster and the subsequent ones for educating me a bit further. I firmly believe there is a place for uncommon, even expensive books in open shops. I hope in future that brick and mortar shops feel more able to take on a few important, unusual works, and that magic publishers find a way forward to partner more often with shops that are willing to sell their books.
We would be floored to get 60% off. We generally get 20%, pay in advance, and have the customer commitments in hand. Since we order several copies, we generally can absorb the cost of shipping, so we generally make 15% such a transaction. We also generally buy 1 extra copy for the shelf. Over time we gained the reputation of having or at least knowing of unusual and uncommon books, much to our satisfaction.
Now, some of these book are limited run (generally 500-1000 copies) either because of deliberate collectibility efforts or, more often, because the topic is so esoteric (History of the Book in Canada vols 1 & 2, anyone?) that only a small group of libraries and scholars are likely to buy them.
Our environment is different than a magic shop, without a doubt. However, we have slowly developed a clientele who like for us to purchase items for them, and for small added services we do (reject damaged copies, put on dust jacket protectors, suggest better books on a given topic, let them know when a new book in their interest is available) so they don't have to do it themselves. I imagine (and it sounds like) the better magic shops do the same, and more. Our customers like our books and prices, and they like to support us as directly and often as they can. We are lucky, but greatly indebted to those presses and authors that keep turning out these damnably interesting books.
Magic publishing is more unique than traditional publishing I think (and I am most familiar with those who publish magic history). I am quite interested in it, and thank the original poster and the subsequent ones for educating me a bit further. I firmly believe there is a place for uncommon, even expensive books in open shops. I hope in future that brick and mortar shops feel more able to take on a few important, unusual works, and that magic publishers find a way forward to partner more often with shops that are willing to sell their books.
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Matthew Field
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Slydini
- Location: Hastings, England, UK
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
Retailers don't get 60% off -- the wholesalers do. Retailing is usually "keystone", or 100% markup -- that is most retailers buy at 50% of the price to the customer. By the way, 100% markup is called 50% markup by retailers. The rest goes to the wholesaler/distributor.Originally posted by Mr. Motte:
We would be floored to get 60% off. We generally get 20%,
20% off retail is not usuaual for specialty, reprint, special order or used goods, and percentages for big-ticket items is often less as well.
I'm not talking specifically about magic products here -- just retail.
(I really hate the retail business.)
Matt Field
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Bob Farmer
- Posts: 3310
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Short card above selection.
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
20% of what Matt says is 50% right 9 times out of 5.
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Guest
Re: Brick and Mortar Shops
I would like to add to the positive list of B&M shops a place in Ft. Worth Texas called Magic Etc. I was sent there by Dallas magician Chris Lyle, who siad that of the three stores still open in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, this was definitely the one to go to.
I went in with a list of all the things I had researched online that would work for a patriotic show I was trying to create. The salesman was with another customer, but when he had finished, he helped me by looking over the list, explaining what he had that I wanted, and then showed me things he had that might be even better than the things on my list ! I spent a good chucnk of change, and walked out a happy man.
Earlier this year, I had a bad experience with my bank due to a screw-up over an order at Daytona Magic here in FLoria. Dotty at the store didn't just offer to help, she went WAY beyond the call of duty ! She actually set up a three-way conference call with my bank to correct the problem , and in the end, I came out the winner. She did all this while running the store by herself, since Harry and friends were off to a convention. How many magic stores do you know of that would take on a huge banking institution ? Dotty never backed down even once.
There are still some GREAT B&M stores, and I will support them till they fall to the wrecking ball....
Mark Pettey
Naples, FL
I went in with a list of all the things I had researched online that would work for a patriotic show I was trying to create. The salesman was with another customer, but when he had finished, he helped me by looking over the list, explaining what he had that I wanted, and then showed me things he had that might be even better than the things on my list ! I spent a good chucnk of change, and walked out a happy man.
Earlier this year, I had a bad experience with my bank due to a screw-up over an order at Daytona Magic here in FLoria. Dotty at the store didn't just offer to help, she went WAY beyond the call of duty ! She actually set up a three-way conference call with my bank to correct the problem , and in the end, I came out the winner. She did all this while running the store by herself, since Harry and friends were off to a convention. How many magic stores do you know of that would take on a huge banking institution ? Dotty never backed down even once.
There are still some GREAT B&M stores, and I will support them till they fall to the wrecking ball....
Mark Pettey
Naples, FL