Shoot Ogawa or "Houston, we have an ethics problem."

[Guest]

Doomo,

One must look at all sides, even those considered to be light or heavy, before determining what a good honorarium would be....Two rules: Never take the first offer, and the first one to mention money loses.

:0p

[Guest]

Originally posted by opie:
But let us not crucify somebody, nor allow those, who are not really even remotely interested or connected, to come in and stomp on a fellow magician, before he has had his say.

Two thoughts:

1. Anyone who is sufficiently interested enough in magic to spend/waste time on this board, is "remotely interested or connected" enough to magic to have an opinion on the subject. The harm is to the craft, and those who practice or respect the craft have standing to criticize.

2. Shoot has had his say, when he did the exposure, and in every opportunity he has had to explain or apologize since (specifically, the article in Magic Magazine). His continued silence is a statement.

[Guest]

Originally posted by opie:

let us compile a list (I love lists; they have the comforting power to level piles of excrement) of everyone who has lost at least a dollar because of Shoot's exposures.....

Okay, okay, just to be fair, let us also compile a list of people who have gotten booked because of the popularity magic has gotten from the FOX and other exposures

Just the curiosity alone that is raised by people watching the specials can be future money in the bank for performers.

People interested in magic watch these specials, hire magicians to entertain and still do not catch how it is done. They watch for curiosity reasons. They hire for entertainment reasons but still have a slieght memory of what they had seen on the TV but the end result is that they will not see how the trick is done even if it is done right under their nose. It just needs to be presented well.

I was talking to Paul Green at the SAM Convention and he told me that he was working a trade show where a guy was giving away Invisible Decks as a gift to draw people to the booth. Paul was stationed a few booths down the aisle and would do Invisible Deck effects for the crowd and blow them away. They received the secret 2 minutes previous to seeing Paul and were still floored.

I am not saying that I am for exposure. I am saying that people do not remember things the way they are done.

So where is the real exposure? The customer being exposed to the trick or the customer being exposed to magic and hiring a magician for his/her next party or event because their minds were tweaked by an exposure type show.

To answer your question, I have received many offers to do shows through a conversation that started off with..."So, what do you think about the masked magician?"

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com

[Guest]

Originally posted by Doomo:

2) Mr. Watkins - [snip] then I can expect to see some public comments from you. [snip]

Doomo, from my first post in this thread:

"I have more than enough spouted my mouth off about how I feel about exposure in other threads. In my mind its wrong."

There ain't no exceptions. Shoot was wrong. I am not as livid right now in this post because the exposure is not occuring right at this moment in time. If Shoot came here and started exposing stuff right now, I'd be yelling and screaming trust me.

Shoots exposure occured years ago and I don't truely now how he feels about it now. My guess is he regrets it. If he does, and admits he was wrong I can at least respect the repentance, just as much as I could if those who exposed U3F on the forum could admit it was wrong.

The issue is still very clear, exposure is bad.

[Guest]

Opie,
I agree it would be nice for Shoot to respond and I've waited for that before weighing in with an opinion (not that anyone wants mine anyway...).

I'm assuming that Shoot knows about this thread by now and could find someone with a computer to assist him in getting his side out if indeed he HAD something to say that wouldn't hurt him more than help him.

But assuming there is a reasonable and valid excuse for what he did can you tell us what it might be? He needed the money for his dying grandmother's iron lung? Someone else with less talent (and therefore less deserving of being on TV) would have done it if he hadn't? I'm at a loss to imagine what he might say that would be an acceptable answer to those who proclaim that exposure is "wrong".

And in case you wonder, I don't have a much of a problem with exposure. I feel it's my job to provide an experiance such that the audience doesn't care how it's done. If I'm doing my job they'll be more interested in why, than in how.

[Guest]

Bill, I am still curious myself.....and I do love to be quoted.. :0p

[Guest]

I would like to hear what the man has to say....If I don't buy his response, you might see me put on my WAM hat; then you would see how an old college rhetoric teacher beats a dead horse....

Again,What could he say to get you to "Buy" his response????

[Guest]

Originally posted by Mike Powers:
Maybe I can boost my income from my restaurant work by selling the patrons a manuscript explaining the tricks I do. I would do it lovingly.

Does anyone think that this is a good idea?

Mike

It's a good idea Mr. Powers, except that the past masters of the Art always sold booklets explaining other magicians' tricks. (sigh) It was ever thus... :rolleyes:

[Guest]

Can't believe I am actually saying this but....

Who cares. He is just a new face in the field with a technical routine (the rings), that is the fresh flavor of the month with no presentation, ryme, or reason. Since he is an unkown until now in this country he is gaining rep because a select few want to try and ride his coattails for some attention. Can you blame them? They think he is "cool" and "new".
You should never go out and expose just for exposures sake, and thats that. So the kid messed up. If you have a problem with it, don't buy his stuff. If you don't, learn the stuff and for gods sake try to inject a little presentation in there. The way it is every move is a move.

Mr. Stickley

[Guest]

Careful Stick....There are people here who are in my face, simply because I advocate giving the guy a chance to be heard.....

...(Richard, that outta get the remaining dozen posts of the 50 I promised you....hehehe...and I haven't even really been trying...tsk tsk.....)

:0p

[Guest]

Richard, see how easy it is to get them to quit posting; just make them think you want them to....hehehe....Your guys here sure are predictable....hehehe.....opie

[Jeff Eline]

And I thought Mark Lewis was annoying!

[Guest]

Originally posted by DustinStinett:
Ted,

Who are the "powers that be" (the dozen who say "yes") who can dispense "official censure"? I certainly hope you don't mean the other moderators or me:

NO! Certainly not. I'd put you in the 'Power to say "No" category, as in, "No, this post will no longer remain on the board", etc. For the hobbyist, their power to say 'No' comes in the form of how they choose to spend...or not spend...their dollars. LOTS of people have the power of 'No', from the consumer to the receptionist who decides which calls will go through.

No, the "Power to say "Yes" bunch are the ones who make the editorial decisions at the magazines, the convention bookers, the book publishers...y'know, the few who decide who-and-what will be promoted...or ignored. A much smaller group, and the only ones whose opinions REALLY matter.

Ted

[Guest]

Mark?.....oh no!

tsk tsk.....(reels in the hook, line, and sinker; rebaits, casts out again....)...hehehe....

:0p

[Richard Kaufman]

I really think this thread has run its course.
Case closed, for now.