H&R Books - Used book discount!

[Dustin Stinett]

In case you do not receive Marshall's emails (and why not?), H&R Books have some good discounts going on their used books: 30% off (marked on the site, no codes, etc.). I see a lot of people looking for used books on this site; H&R should be one of your first stops in your search. These deals are good only for the next few days. Check out H&R at https://www.magicbookshop.com/b/used-books

(This is an unsolicited endorsement.)

[erdnasephile]

Marshall is good guy--I buy from him all the time.

Someone is going to get a great deal on a copy of "Greater Magic"...

[Leonard Hevia]

That's interesting. Nobody seems to be buying used magic books at the Green Monster. Lots of great books available at bargain prices on the Buy and Sell menu and almost nothing moves. Perhaps literacy is a problem there.

[Smurf]

Or perhaps December reduces our personal spending as we have to buy more things for others.

[Steve Mills]

That's interesting. Nobody seems to be buying used magic books at the Green Monster. Lots of great books available at bargain prices on the Buy and Sell menu and almost nothing moves. Perhaps literacy is a problem there.

I don't think this is related to literacy, but just the way things are now. Used physical items have little or no value any more (says a guy that's about to take a $50K hit on a business condo he bought 14 years ago). Sure, if you're selling Cardini's underwear or something else that attracts the attention of Copperfield and other big hitters, send it to Potter and Potter and get a bunch of money for it, but, otherwise, used magic stuff is pretty worthless.

I'm a book guy and at one time thought there might be some residual value there after they throw dirt in my face, but those days are gone. I bought virtually every hardcover book that was issued this year, but look at them like DVDs - read 'em, enjoy and possibly learn, but the physical item is now worth bupkus. Most books cost substantially less than a decent meal out and need to be considered as such.

One of the few books I didn't buy this year is the Tenyo book. It's It's one of the very few holes I have in my RK collection. I own one Tenyo trick (Ring and Ribbon) and have very little interest in their history etc. There was a time I would have purchased it when it was first issued, knowing there would be some value there when it was time to dispose of it, but I think those days are gone.

Just rambling.....

[Leonard Hevia]

You're scaring me Steve. I have a few duplicates of magic hardcover books that I'd like to unload and I'm afraid your prognosis is more accurate than I want to accept. It just seems that newer entrants into magic are not interested in reading (can't read?) or in tangible books. Digital downloads have absolutely no aftermarket value yet that doesn't seem to bother them. Those that purchase books have been in the game a long time and know the value of such things.

[erdnasephile]

...One of the few books I didn't buy this year is the Tenyo book. It's It's one of the very few holes I have in my RK collection. I own one Tenyo trick (Ring and Ribbon) and have very little interest in their history etc. There was a time I would have purchased it when it was first issued, knowing there would be some value there when it was time to dispose of it, but I think those days are gone...

I'm not much of a Tenyo guy either but am enormously glad I took the plunge on this book. It really is wonderful to read--like opening up the biggest magic set you've ever seen. The vast majority of it I'll never perform, but the sheer ingenuity of many of the items and routines is inspiring. It's also one of the most beautifully produced books in my collection--quality binding and paper, color photos all the way through, DVD's, awesome slipcase. It's just a fun book to read and own, IMHO. (This book and the Caveney set, have permanently raised the bar as to what I expect when a magic book is priced at more than 2 bills).

I know exactly what you mean though in terms of buying collectables for investment purposes. It reminds me of the comic book bubble of the 80's. I knew folks who stockpiled so many copies of so many forgettable titles, only to find their future returns not worth the mylar the books were entombed in.

[lybrary]

Digital downloads have absolutely no aftermarket value yet that doesn't seem to bother them.

And why should it? Most people buy magic books to learn a new routine or move, or just to appreciate the method or cleverness of the material described, or they want to learn about history, or about a particular performer, not to make a financial investment.

[Steve Mills]

And why should it? Most people buy magic books to learn a new routine or move, or just to appreciate the method or cleverness of the material described, or they want to learn about history, or about a particular performer, not to make a financial investment.

You may be right today, but I believe the residual/collectible factor has been an important part of the magic market for a long time.

[Leonard Hevia]

Digital downloads have absolutely no aftermarket value yet that doesn't seem to bother them.

And why should it? Most people buy magic books to learn a new routine or move, or just to appreciate the method or cleverness of the material described, or they want to learn about history, or about a particular performer, not to make a financial investment.

It should bother them because beyond the information they purchased, there isn't anything tangible left over. There is nothing physical left to resell down the road if so desired. A physical book can be in and of itself a work of art to hold, touch, and admire.

Do you have any paintings hanging on your walls Chris? If you do, what for?

I have a better idea, just shine digital holograms of the painting on your walls. It's the same thing......right?

[lybrary]

It should bother them because beyond the information they purchased, there isn't anything tangible left over.

If the information is all they want then it should not bother them, particularly since the digital edition of a title is typically cheaper than the printed one. So rather than pay for print and binding which is unimportant to them, they can save money and get even more of what they really want - the contents.

What many forget is that owning physical books also incurs costs of ownership. You have to store the books somewhere. You will need shelves for that. You will need space for the shelves. Ask somebody who lives in a small NY apartment. They can quickly tell you how expensive it is to own even a small personal library. I had to move three times with a large library. Most of the cost of these moves was incurred by the books we own. And then when you want to sell the book it won't happen by itself. You will need to spend time and effort - more costs. If you leave it to your heirs they usually have no idea of its worth and rarely can realize the value. In most cases it is a headache for them to dissolve a magic library.

A physical book can be in and of itself a work of art to hold, touch, and admire.

Don't get me wrong, there are certainly some beautifully made magic books, but if I want art, even book art, I go somewhere else.

Do you have any paintings hanging on your walls Chris? If you do, what for?

I don't have any paintings primarily because most walls have a shelf in front of them. And most of these shelves have books. And pretty much all of these books we have because of their contents, not because of the way they were printed or bound.

I have a better idea, just shine digital holograms of the painting on your walls. It's the same thing......right?

Now you are freaking me out, because in my Austrian apartment I had four white light holograms in the entry way to the living room. I think you have me figured out.

[Leonard Hevia]

The costs of ownership are the prices the owners of books, paintings, musical instruments and other works of art lovingly pay to be near these objects. Those that prefer just the digital download and aren't interested in owning anything tangible like holding and smelling a book are welcome to that. Throw a nice pearl necklace in front of a pig and the animal wouldn't appreciate it.

Mark Lewis's psychic powers have rubbed off on me. I already knew you had those holograms.

[lybrary]

Just because somebody buys books for contents doesn't mean he or she doesn't like or appreciate art. These things do not have to be consumed in the same object. There are many places and ways to experience art. I am simply sharing my observation that most people buy books for the contents and there is nothing wrong or bad about it.

[Leonard Hevia]

Yes, for some a book is just another tool like a hammer or ratchet and not anything more exquisite. That is it's basic function, to just store information. Notice that the earliest books in Europe were patiently and lovingly handcrafted with paints and leatherwork.

There is another aspect of digital downloads that has been discussed here before. The download chains the reader to the computer or other technical device. I want the freedom that a book or paper magazine gives me. I can carry it anywhere with me and don't need anything more than a medieval device like a candle to read it and download the contents in my mind.

[lybrary]

There is another aspect of digital downloads that has been discussed here before. The download chains the reader to the computer or other technical device. I want the freedom that a book or paper magazine gives me. I can carry it anywhere with me and don't need anything more than a medieval device like a candle to read it and download the contents in my mind.

Well, that simply shows that you haven't been keeping up with technology. An e-ink screen reader is lighter and thinner than most individual books and can provide reading pleasure for weeks on one charge. You can read in lighting conditions identical to books, plus it has built in lighting when you need lighting (no candle needed but if you want you can still use a candle for reading). On top of it one can search and have hundreds of books available in the same device. For me and more and more others this is better and more convenient than a printed book. It may not 'feel' the same as a printed book, but after a while many find it more convenient than printed books.

[Leonard Hevia]

Well, that simply shows that you haven't been keeping up with technology.

You got that right Chris. Keeping up with technology is like trying to climb a greased pole.

[Dustin Stinett]

Keeping up with technology is like trying to climb a greased pole.

While the "technology" of a book remains unchanged, reliable, and not subject to the whims of an industry (and society) driven by "newer and better stuff."

I have never had a book publisher tell me that they "no longer support that software/hardware."

And no, Chris, I do not want to argue with you. You will never convince me otherwise, so please don't try.

[lybrary]

And no, Chris, I do not want to argue with you. You will never convince me otherwise, so please don't try.

When was the last time somebody got convinced on a forum? No I don't want to convince you, just trying to keep you honest. So you never login to the online Genii archive?

[magicam]

There is another aspect of digital downloads that has been discussed here before. The download chains the reader to the computer or other technical device. I want the freedom that a book or paper magazine gives me. I can carry it anywhere with me and don't need anything more than a medieval device like a candle to read it and download the contents in my mind.

Well, that simply shows that you haven't been keeping up with technology. An e-ink screen reader is lighter and thinner than most individual books and can provide reading pleasure for weeks on one charge. You can read in lighting conditions identical to books, plus it has built in lighting when you need lighting (no candle needed but if you want you can still use a candle for reading). On top of it one can search and have hundreds of books available in the same device. For me and more and more others this is better and more convenient than a printed book. It may not 'feel' the same as a printed book, but after a while many find it more convenient than printed books.

Chris, the smell and feel of a book are part of the soothing aesthetics of reading for bibliophiles.

But with respect to e-ink readers, how much do color readers cost in the size of a large 8vo that feature resolution similar to the higher quality books? Can one quickly and smoothly zoom and pull back from screen images without blurring or delays? What about "ghosting" wherein there is a considerable time delay in getting the old page image to completely disappear?

[Leonard Hevia]

Chris, the smell and feel of a book are part of the soothing aesthetics of reading for bibliophiles.

But with respect to e-ink readers, how much do color readers cost in the size of a large 8vo that feature resolution similar to the higher quality books? Can one quickly and smoothly zoom and pull back from screen images without blurring or delays? What about "ghosting" wherein there is a considerable time delay in getting the old page image to completely disappear?

Hear, hear, Magicam! thank you for pointing out one of the simple pleasures for bibliophiles. Some folks like Chris are in denial about the downsides of the technological reading gizmos you noted.

[prodigy]

Chris, the smell and feel of a book are part of the soothing aesthetics of reading for bibliophiles.

But with respect to e-ink readers, how much do color readers cost in the size of a large 8vo that feature resolution similar to the higher quality books? Can one quickly and smoothly zoom and pull back from screen images without blurring or delays? What about "ghosting" wherein there is a considerable time delay in getting the old page image to completely disappear?

Hear, hear, Magicam! thank you for pointing out one of the simple pleasures for bibliophiles. Some folks like Chris are in denial about the downsides of the technological reading gizmos you noted.

The resolution issue when flicking through quickly is a downside of the current generation of e-readers; however, it is only a matter of time before technology catches up and it becomes less of an issue. In the meantime, I'm happy to have the disadvantage of resolution adjusting time in exchange for the advantage of having many ebooks on a light, thin and portable device and the ability to quickly search for something (e.g. a Larry Jennings reference) which can't be done as easily/quickly when reading a physical book or magazine. Everything has its trade offs.

You can still embrace digital books, and at the same still prefer reading physical books. It makes no sense to bash one or the other.

[observer]

An "ebook" (ugh) shouldn't take away any of a collectible book's value, any more than buying a used Signet Classics paperback of The Pathfinder diminishes the value of a mint copy of the 1840 Lea & Blanchard edition. Why on earth that example popped into my head I have no idea. Anyhow, "ebook"/collectible book = totally different things.

[magicam]

Hear, hear, Magicam! thank you for pointing out one of the simple pleasures for bibliophiles. Some folks like Chris are in denial about the downsides of the technological reading gizmos you noted.

I’m not sure CW is in denial so much as he is a very enthusiastic promoter of e-books, not only because that is his primary business, but also because I suspect he truly believes in the technology of now and the future. That said, his enthusiasm sometimes outruns a sense of courtesy, as it seems quite unfair for him to chide you about “not keeping up with technology” when the state thereof still fails to meet the basic perks of a physical book. But that’s just my opinion …

The resolution issue when flicking through quickly is a downside of the current generation of e-readers; however, it is only a matter of time before technology catches up and it becomes less of an issue. In the meantime, I'm happy to have the disadvantage of resolution adjusting time in exchange for the advantage of having many ebooks on a light, thin and portable device and the ability to quickly search for something (e.g. a Larry Jennings reference) which can't be done as easily/quickly when reading a physical book or magazine. Everything has its trade offs.

You can still embrace digital books, and at the same still prefer reading physical books. It makes no sense to bash one or the other.

Certainly a balanced perspective, and valid IMO. No doubt technology in time will resolve the problems I cited. But what happens when a massive EMP or a truly nasty software virus wipes out the data banks of millions/billions of computers? (When that happens, of course, we’ll have far bigger problems than recovering lost PDFs …) Will Adobe’s PDF or the other formats always be used, or will future technology render many files obsolete in the future? Sure, a nuclear blast could also be a real bummer for one’s physical books, but the risks of loss when information is stored electronically will seemingly always be present – something so innocent as pulling one plug could wipe out one’s e-library. Yeah, yeah … backup, backup and backup, but electronic redundancy only helps when at least one electronic storage system survives.

Increasingly, I’ve come to view this nascent “all-digital” age as akin to the latter half of the 15th century when the first books were printed from movable type. Only a fraction of the total output of incunabula has survived, and I have the feeling that a large percentage of today’s all-digital works will eventually suffer the same fate, for a variety of reasons, including catastrophic events.

IMO, we won’t know the full effects of this new digital age until the current youngest generation has aged to retirement and has income to pursue collecting activities. Why? Because aside from the (very misguided IMO) motivation of “investment,” I think the very soul of collecting lies in and derives from nostalgia. What will those who experienced much of life via electrons on a screen seek for the solace of their old age?

Some years ago, I penned an essay on The Sette of Odd Volumes, a social club founded in the latter part of the 19th century (and still going strong today, I believe), in which men lectured many times each year on, and derived great joy from, “those little gleams of thought that do not happen to come in for use in the serious work of the world, but are too bright and good to lose.” In 1895, member Richard Le Gallienne offered his thoughts on collecting, which ring as true today as they did over a century ago, and which should instruct and delight the hearts of fellow collectors. The first offers sage advice just beneath its hyperbole, especially to less veteran collectors who find themselves disheartened by today's high prices for conjuring collectibles.

If none of the objects of regular collection work the charm upon you, go down among the rag-pickers of literature and art, and ask what is most despised and least sought after in their dustheaps. The more worthless the better—the greater will be your enthusiasm. And then, maybe, you will have found the only happiness possible in this wonderful, weary, and wistful world.

Mr. Le Gallienne then read a poem by Coventry Patmore about a father and his young son. The father, having had to sternly discipline his son, goes to see him and finds that the boy has cried himself to sleep.

I, kissing away his tears, left others of my own,
For, on a table drawn beside his head,
He had put within his reach,
A box of counters and a red-vein'd stone,
A piece of glass abraded by the beach
And six or seven shells,
A bottle of bluebells,
And two French copper coins, ranged there with careful art,
To comfort his sad heart.

Le Gallienne then observed, " The objects which the child had gathered round him made just the same litter as grown-up people formed into learned Societies to collect—only they were called geologists, conchologists, numismatists, and what not,—but still children. That, he pointed out, was the beauty of being a collector. Your hobby kept you a child."

[lybrary]

Believe it or not, there are collectors of ebooks. I personally think there is little difference between the obscure 19th century local newspaper that has been lost over time, and the obscure ebook that was on the market several years ago but has been pulled from retailers and has been forgotten. Also a digital library will have the rare and the obscure and can be as wide or as deep as the collector desires it.

[Roger M.]

Is it marketing, or sincere conversation?

Who knows, but it's a given that zeros and ones which exist only out in the ether don't compare in any way with a beautifully bound and typeset book sitting on ones bookshelf.
That they each contain text is painfully obvious, but beyond that they have no physical property in common such that a comparison makes any sense whatsoever.

[Richard Kaufman]

There is nothing appealing about eDocuments. They are functional and serve a purpose, but at the very best their aesthetic impression can never be more than "a cool picture."

They are helpful for research, and are the only practical way we are able to provide all of the Genii (and soon MAGIC's) back issues to our readers.

However, when I read The Sphinx, I pick up my bound copies of originals and read those. I am transported to another time with the aging paper and the aroma. I never have that experience with a digital document.

[Brad Henderson]

I cannot easily retain information read in an ebook. I remember content by cues such as which book it came in, what side of the page, how the information appeared - all of which are lost on a single scrolling screen.

I believe they have even done research to show that this is not a unique condition.

I also hate how there is no sense of progress when reading an ebook. You don't feel like you are moving forward or drawing to a conclusion. it's all sameness

[Brian Douglas]

E-books have their place. A few plus years ago as I was transferring from an undisclosed location I mailed my library to what would be my current location. Relatively short distance considering only a 3 hour fly time, but the powers that be left all the mail bags exposed on the flight line while it was raining. Most of my books were warped with pages stuck together as well as several decks of cards.

My day job isn't very book friendly and though I love hard copies, I like having instant access via e-books.

[Roger M.]

My occupation has me both share, and consume massive amounts of information on phones, tablets, and desktop computers.
I'm far from a stranger to reading and/or sharing electronic text.

But when I want to read a book for personal enjoyment or advancement, I buy a bound book and enjoy reading it with the zero tech that reading a book requires, and yet all the pleasures noted above when one picks up a beautifully bound and typeset book.

The only reason I subscribe to the Genii Online version of the magazine is because I live in Canada, and the postage is ridiculous. Otherwise, I would only ever access and read the paper copy of Genii, something I did for years before going digital only - and then only because the Canadian dollar tanked in relation to the American dollar.

[Steve Mills]

I also hate how there is no sense of progress when reading an ebook. You don't feel like you are moving forward or drawing to a conclusion. it's all sameness

Brad,

I think you hit on something very real there. That progress slider across the bottom just isn't the same.

Although technology has been my business for many years, I really hate the way aesthetics are being stripped away in all areas of our lives.

It ain't gonna change, I'm afraid......

[erdnasephile]

I cannot easily retain information read in an ebook. I remember content by cues such as which book it came in, what side of the page, how the information appeared - all of which are lost on a single scrolling screen.

I believe they have even done research to show that this is not a unique condition.

Yes! That's exactly how I remember things in the books I read.

There are also studies that suggest an effective teaching strategy for some skills is to involve as many of the senses as possible. Physical books certainly hit more of those for me than the electronic versions.

My personal Holy Grail would be books as described in the Harry Potter series. (The closest thing I've seen to this in magic is "Closely Guarded Secrets" by Michael Close).

[lybrary]

My personal Holy Grail would be books as described in the Harry Potter series. (The closest thing I've seen to this in magic is "Closely Guarded Secrets" by Michael Close).

And Michael Close got that idea from the digital version of "Card College 1" I did with Roberto with 100+ embedded videos.

[Roger M.]

Chris, just so I'm clear on your comment - are you claiming to be the first publisher ever to release an enhanced e-book?

If not, then are you proposing that you're now clairvoyant, and able to read Mike Close's mind?

[prodigy]

Certainly a balanced perspective, and valid IMO. No doubt technology in time will resolve the problems I cited. But what happens when a massive EMP or a truly nasty software virus wipes out the data banks of millions/billions of computers? (When that happens, of course, we’ll have far bigger problems than recovering lost PDFs …) Will Adobe’s PDF or the other formats always be used, or will future technology render many files obsolete in the future? Sure, a nuclear blast could also be a real bummer for one’s physical books, but the risks of loss when information is stored electronically will seemingly always be present – something so innocent as pulling one plug could wipe out one’s e-library. Yeah, yeah … backup, backup and backup, but electronic redundancy only helps when at least one electronic storage system survives.

It doesn't necessarily have to be something as extreme as a nuclear blast to damage physical books. I know of collections that have been damaged by fire, water and poor storage. In cases where a physical library is destroyed, you'd have to again go through the expensive process of replacing the items you lost. For pdfs, if your hard drive crashes, you could still go to the sites your purchased them from, like lybrary and penguin, and re-download them. In cases where you purchased a pdf directly from an author, you could contact them directly to explain the situation and ask for another copy. In cases where the author or website is no longer around, and there is no other way to get them, then you'd have the same problem as a rare physical book that got damaged and is unlikely to ever get replaced. You simply have to cut your losses.

There will always be a risk of losing information when storing something through electronic means. As redundant as it sounds, backing up is quite important. It doesn't have to be on 50 different hard drives/devices. Even having just one backup is good enough. That way if something does go wrong, you may have lost some things, but not everything.

In the end I believe it simply comes down to the aesthetics of a physical book vs a digital book. I still get a wonderful feeling when picking up some of my old periodicals and going through them. At the same time, some of these are very fragile, so if possible I prefer to read them in a digital format to avoid risking any damage to the physical periodical. The entire experience of reading a physical book can't be fully recreated.

[lybrary]

Chris, just so I'm clear on your comment - are you claiming to be the first publisher ever to release an enhanced e-book?
If not, then are you proposing that you're now clairvoyant, and able to read Mike Close's mind?

Yeah Roger I know you are burning to somehow prove me wrong, or otherwise discredit my work. Here a little quote from an interview Michael Close gave in Magic Magazine April 2005:

MAGIC: Was Closely Guarded Secrets a first?
CLOSE: No, Chris Wasshuber with lybrary.com has been putting out a lot of ebooks. He put out Roberto Giobbi’s Card College with video clips.

Or read Michael's review of Card College 1 the ebook in the 2002 November issue of Magic:

Now here’s a really good idea. ... To me, this is the perfect melding of old and new technology. The text does what it is supposed to do, the illustrations do what they are supposed to, and the video clips do what they do best.

So yeah, Michael Close certainly got the idea from the Card College ebooks we released at Lybrary.com. At a time when most people didn't know what an ebook was, I thought about how to make the best use of a new digital media technology.

"Card College 1" was not the first ebook with a video clip in it, but it was the first ebook that took it to a new level where we embedded dozens of video clips to demonstrate every move described in the ebook. It was a completely new way to make use of embedded video clips. To the best of my knowledge this was the first such ebook, it certainly was the first one in magic. A consequence of this new use of videos in an ebook "Card College 1" was nominated as a finalist in the prestigious EPPIE 2004 ebook award in the category non-fiction/how-to. To the best of my knowledge, this was the first magic book to be nominated for a non-magic book prize.

I think it is fair to say that my work with Lybrary.com was and still is (see for example "Ask Roberto" or "Secret Twitter") groundbreaking and we showed the path many others have decided to follow after many years of doubting the technology. Not without reason do some customers call Lybrary.com the Amazon.com for magicians. (As a little aside, Lybrary.com sold ebooks years before Amazon jumped on it, but I am not implying that they did it because of me. It just took them a bit longer to understand and act on the ebook opportunity.)

[Roger M.]

Well, I'm not trying to prove anything Chris, indeed (as I've said before) I've had an account with Lybrary (YOU!) for over five years, and have made many purchases from you.

But you've affirmed that you have absolutely no first hand knowledge that anybody was "influenced" by you, and indeed Mr. Close may have been speaking of magic books specifically (considering that in your example he's a magician, being interviewed for a magic magazine) - but that there's every possibility that he was influenced by other enhanced e-books more general in nature, that were available at the time, books having nothing to do with magic, and published before anything you published.

I don't know, but then neither do you (which is the point).

When folks generally make statements like:
"So yeah, Michael Close certainly got the idea from the Card College ebooks we released at Lybrary.com"

... they generally make them knowing absolutely that they're accurate, not guessing that they're accurate.

I hope you're right, and that Mike Close was indeed influenced by your enhanced e-books ... but as noted above, you really can't know for sure unless you ask him personally.

Why don't you ask him personally, and THEN make the statement?

I know you like to take credit for things, but it's usually best to be sure that credit is due.

[lybrary]

You are absolutely correct that I am taking credit for the state of digital media in magic. Lybrary.com was the first magic retailer focusing exclusively on ebooks and download videos many years before other retailers added downloads to their offering. Even today most do it as an afterthought, a sideline, and rarely know what they are doing, while Lybrary.com is continuing to push the boundaries with new concepts, and a vastly larger selection than anybody else.

The fact that you can enjoy the digital Genii archive is due to the experience Lybrary.com has acquired in digitization which we used to digitize Genii. The fact that you will soon be able to enjoy Magic Magazine in digital form and that you can already enjoy dozens of other magic magazines and hundreds of magic books is due to my continued efforts over 16 years to expertly digitize the most important resources in magic. Heck, I built dedicated book scanners before companies like Kirtas, 4DigitalBooks, Treventus, Quidenus, etc. were founded.

[prodigy]

Michael Close wrote the following in these 2 threads about Closely Guarded Secrets:

viewtopic.php?t=3473
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... rum=111&70

Why an ebook?

With this project, I wanted to try to incorporate all the technological advances available to produce the most thorough and enjoyable learning experience possible. To this end we have integrated text, photographs, and video clips in such a way that each medium does what it does best. Text provides the information. Pictures clarify the text. Video shows you how sleights look when they are perfected. Chris Wasshuber spearheaded this approach with the ebook version of Card College 1. However, I believe that CGS is the first project specifically designed to incorporate all three media in the most effective way

[magicam]

It doesn't necessarily have to be something as extreme as a nuclear blast to damage physical books. I know of collections that have been damaged by fire, water and poor storage. In cases where a physical library is destroyed, you'd have to again go through the expensive process of replacing the items you lost.

True dat, but at least with flooding and other such water events, in the case of the first 350 years of books from movable type (which as a general category seem almost certainly to be the rarest of books printed to date), little harm will be done to the paper or velum – if memory serves, even mold damage is reversible for such paper. By contrast, the perils you mention could/would all spell death for ebooks.

More generally stated, my point was that, when one compares the potential evanescence of paper vs. electronic books and the kinds of catastrophic events that can permanently remove them from the world, it seems reasonable to say that (for example) an EMP in the northern hemisphere of the world poses a far greater risk of wiping out all electronic records of a particular book, whereas the kinds of catastrophic events that could affect physical books are very likely to be much more localized. As a result, and perhaps except in cases of truly rare books (i.e., books of which only 1, or 2 or 3, copies survive), odds seem to strongly favor the survival of physical books in an uncertain world – at least the earlier ones that were printed on cotton or linen paper, or animal skins. Redundancy in the case of a world-wide (or nearly so) electronic catastrophe won’t help much, especially as solid state storage devices replace the more mechanical storage devices (which seems inevitable).

Of course, we’re engaging on very abstract levels and I’m dreaming up extreme hypotheticals, but in a world that is becoming increasingly – and critically – dependant on little more than series of 1s and 0s on vulnerable electronic media, IMO the potential for catastrophic loss of ebooks is much greater than for physical books. Now, for all we know, the Library of Congress has digitized its entire holdings and stores them redundantly in nuclear-bomb-proof bunkers. But in the case of our miniscule corner of the world – magic ebooks – I suspect that very few would be so stored.

In the end I believe it simply comes down to the aesthetics of a physical book vs a digital book.

Largely the case, I think. But there is the point about learning and memory retention raised by Brad H., which if true does seem significant. But perhaps after a number of centuries human brains will have evolved to overcome such drawback?

I still get a wonderful feeling when picking up some of my old periodicals and going through them.

Yes, nothing like holding the real thing! I love the smell of old books – odd when you think about it because that generally amounts to loving the smell of decay and things like mold! – because this olfactory pleasure in some way renders history, the very passage of time, “tangible” to the senses.

The entire experience of reading a physical book can't be fully recreated.

Ding Ding, Winner, Winner, Winner!!! Yes indeed, and for at least the next 40-60 years, seems like this will be an issue for certain age groups of people.


Past Discussions on Genii Forum. The pros and cons of physical books vs. ebooks have been debated here on a number of occasions. Below are links to a few of those threads, the first two of which seem the most substantive on the subject.

ebooks - the last two years - your opinion viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1544

Your View: ebooks or printed books? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2459

How would your ideal ebook look like? viewtopic.php?t=1704

EBooks......Again!!?? viewtopic.php?t=694

eBooks: looking for users viewtopic.php?t=2988

[erdnasephile]

Prodigy: thanks for posting those links. The Genii forum thread you cite has some amazingly good information/perspective from a number of notables, including Mr. Close.