Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
User avatar
CraigMitchell
Posts: 1788
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Magic
Contact:

Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby CraigMitchell » November 4th, 2015, 4:30 am


User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 27047
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 4th, 2015, 12:26 pm

Jim Steinmeyer was working on this for ages.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Tom Moore
Posts: 635
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 6:45 pm
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Tom Moore » November 5th, 2015, 2:31 pm

I've seen it - it's a very good show and for a first-effort it was nothing short of stunning!
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

User avatar
CraigMitchell
Posts: 1788
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Magic
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby CraigMitchell » November 6th, 2015, 1:48 am

Time to go on a cruise, Richard ... We look forward to the feature in Genii ;-)

Jonathan Pendragon
Posts: 394
Joined: July 13th, 2010, 7:33 am

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Pendragon » November 10th, 2015, 11:14 am

Jim is my closest friend, but I can't agree with any of this. Regardless of the experience the audience feels, what it says to producers is devastating. I have defended him against every rip-off artist I've met. Now he states for those with the money that you don't need a professional illusionist or magician, he can teach the actors. in the late 1970s-early 80s Dick Foster did a show in Tahoe called "Could it be Magic" (I think) starring Lance Burton and Shimada. There were no illusionist in the show, Dick had someone teach the dancers the illusions. The next show involving magic that he did, I was in before he was, he spent the next 20 years trying to duplicate the Pendragons.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8704
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 10th, 2015, 12:22 pm

Jonathan Pendragon wrote:...he can teach the actors...


How is this problematic for a fixed format/content show which essentially uses magic as support for the music/cast?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Jonathan Pendragon
Posts: 394
Joined: July 13th, 2010, 7:33 am

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Pendragon » November 10th, 2015, 12:56 pm

Are you talking about the Princess Cruise lines or The Magic Show? You see. It's not a vicarious existence for me. I am not saying you can't teach actors magic, I am saying it makes it more difficult to present yourself as unique in a market that still hires magicians.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8704
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 10th, 2015, 1:32 pm

Stephen Schwartz has a show of his music featuring magic tricks. Essentially an extension of dance and mood lighting.

IIRC there was a handkerchief vanish and small flying carpet suspension at the beginning of Pippin. That was after the moment where all you see on a dark stage are hands in a curtain of white light. Done in context of that opening number it's not the sort of thing most in magic even think about. So far nothing about engaging the audiences sensibilities and confronting them with the impossible.

IMHO the problem is putting magic in the background of a show's music. Perhaps like using fine art to sell picture frames?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Jonathan Pendragon
Posts: 394
Joined: July 13th, 2010, 7:33 am

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Pendragon » November 10th, 2015, 1:41 pm

I understand it's a musical revue with magic, but in the synopsis they never use the word "magician" once. No actor is given credit because they are designed to be interchangeable, It's a producers dream, believe me, I have heard the greatest writers-producers-directors try and figure out how to remove name-talent, talent that isn't interchangeable from showbiz. It's a mistake.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8704
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 10th, 2015, 1:55 pm

I agree - that's a lousy approach for shows and performing magicians. It's as if these producers forgot that a basic human connection has to be there through a relatable performer before tricks can become magical. For what they want - they may was well show video made from CGI.

In rhetoric ... ethos and pathos have to be there before logos can persuade. Or magic (a parody of logos) can elicit that sense of wonder.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Tom Moore
Posts: 635
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 6:45 pm
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Tom Moore » November 10th, 2015, 2:11 pm

This is a revue show (focusing quite heavily on the music i might add) that has magic in it, it's not a magic/illusionist show that has swapped the expensive magician for a dancer. It's no different to the work Jim has done for Feld's "Disney" tours, Aladdin, Beauty & the Beast, Mary Poppins and the dozens of other theatrical shows he has been involved in adding magical moments to without there ever being a credited magician on stage.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 27047
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 10th, 2015, 2:17 pm

I don't recall any bitching when Ben Vereen was doing magic during the opening number of Pippin!
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Jonathan Pendragon
Posts: 394
Joined: July 13th, 2010, 7:33 am

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Pendragon » November 10th, 2015, 4:01 pm

That's because his name was on the Marquee, and he was the best thing in the musical, besides the TV Ad.

That's not the point I am trying to make. Magic on Broadway in a musicals based on fairy tales is different from actors and dancers being taught magical routines, which is what Alex Ramon told me he did for the show. They didn't hire magicians to perform. They hired actors who can sing and dance, talent they felt was more important than being a magician.

User avatar
Brad Jeffers
Posts: 1221
Joined: April 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Location: Savannah, GA

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Brad Jeffers » November 10th, 2015, 5:19 pm

Jonathan Pendragon wrote: Magic on Broadway in a musicals based on fairy tales is different from actors and dancers being taught magical routines, which is what Alex Ramon told me he did for the show. They didn't hire magicians to perform. They hired actors who can sing and dance, talent they felt was more important than being a magician.


So the question is ...

If you want to produce a show that melds acting, singing, dancing and magic, should you take a professional magician, and endeavor to teach him to act and to sing and to dance, or take a professional actor, who can sing and dance, and endeavor to teach him to perform magic.

Which would be easier?

Which would produce the best results?

Jonathan Pendragon
Posts: 394
Joined: July 13th, 2010, 7:33 am

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Pendragon » November 10th, 2015, 6:42 pm

I already produce a show that involves singers, dancers, actors and magicians, It's called Jonathan Pendragon's Theatre of Magic, I will be at the Magic Castle in the Palace mid-December. I come from theater as well. I have directed many productions. I have always argued for a source, where does the magic come from. And if it is coming from an inferior source, what must you do. My personal definition of a magician is someone who is as magical as what they do: great trick, boring presentation - bad trick..

User avatar
MaxNY
Posts: 1349
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Jeff McBride
Location: Warwick, New York
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby MaxNY » November 11th, 2015, 2:12 am

Tommy Tune filled in for the Las Vegas Show EFX...Commercial here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkL9UYd ... _view_type

Tom Moore
Posts: 635
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 6:45 pm
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Tom Moore » November 12th, 2015, 4:46 am

Jonathan Pendragon wrote:I already produce a show that involves singers, dancers, actors and magicians, It's called Jonathan Pendragon's Theatre of Magic, I will be at the Magic Castle in the Palace mid-December. I come from theater as well. I have directed many productions. I have always argued for a source, where does the magic come from. And if it is coming from an inferior source, what must you do. My personal definition of a magician is someone who is as magical as what they do: great trick, boring presentation - bad trick..



This is going off at somewhat of a tangent since all the shows we are talking about have a "magical element" rather than being proper magic show


...so how do you define "a magician" then?

I'd suggest that 99.9% of the performers mentioned in all the shows above have considerably more training, expertise and real-world-audience-experience in creating and convincingly portraying a magical world & persona than even the top 10% of professional working magicians.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

Jonathan Pendragon
Posts: 394
Joined: July 13th, 2010, 7:33 am

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Pendragon » November 17th, 2015, 4:53 am

All I have known is training and I trained with best: Robert Cohen - acting, Eugene lLoring - dance, Harry Anderson - magic, Fred Waugh - stunts, Mike Vendrell - martial arts. I can't accept the premiss that as magicians we're the low end of the skill curve in performance art disciplines, I won't.
.

Tom Moore
Posts: 635
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 6:45 pm
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Tom Moore » November 17th, 2015, 5:59 am

I'm definitely not saying that magicians are the bottom rung of entertainers but you did raise the complaint that only "magicians" should be presenting magic. We therefore really need to define what "a magician" is and decide precisely now many of them are needed to present an illusion. For example in a sawing in half the magician is doing nothing but presenting, the assistant in the box is doing most of the clever work and the stage crew or backing dancer who's helping to spin the box is doing magic work.

There's a very interesting question here somewhere about the precise nature of what a magician is and why (ironically with most illusions) the person identified by the public as "the magician" is the one doing the least magical work.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

User avatar
Tom Stone
Posts: 1521
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Tom Stone » November 17th, 2015, 8:24 am

Jonathan Pendragon wrote:. Now he states for those with the money that you don't need a professional illusionist or magician, he can teach the actors.

But did not Jarrett do the same? And did that stop magicians?
I am not worried. Anything that widen our nets and broaden our scopes are good.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8704
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Magic to Do - New Show on Princess Cruises

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 17th, 2015, 8:33 am

Magic is not dancing with cabinets.

If the magic works - the show stops. So... even if an actor happens to connect with the audience the way a magician does... it likely defeats the purposes of the director...

win/win for magic.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time


Return to “Buzz”